Silver cable break in
- Thread starter Geir
- Start date
I am sure the Organic (power cord you mean?) would work very good on your Metronome. The vocals will be spot on with this cable. I would prefer to have something different on the Dac to get the maximum bass resolution.
Thanks for your recommandation about the power cord ! préviously i was talking about the difference between AES Organic Référence and AES Argento Flow.
I never tested an AES cable from Argento or Organic audio so i expect it will sound like their speaker câble.
Best regards
Philippe
The electric field propagates within the dielectric, which is essentially on and outside of the surface of the conductor.
It is not rattling electrons out of atoms as a current of electrons, but it is modelled that way.
Yes, it's true. It is the same principle on the PCBs. The energy is transferred between the conductor and the return path.
Does speaker wire affect sound quality? No Myths, Just Facts (soundcertified.com)
5 Myths About Speaker Wire | Machine Design
Best audiophile cables: Fact and fiction explained - SoundGuys
Debunking myths about audio cables - SoundGuys
Wire does not require any break-in regardless of what the wire is made of.
Even gold-plated speaker connectors don't affect sound, what it does do however is resist corrosion; having said that, where I live there is a place called Speaker Workshop, they repair speakers and high-end audio gear, the guy told me that all I need is oxygen-free copper wire to prevent oxidation, a good quality silicone insulated covering, and insert the wire bare into the connectors of both the speaker and the preamp because adding connectors can actually cause more problems with connectivity than using just the bare ends. I asked him about just using a lamp cord, and he agreed with what the above website said, but he said a lamp cord has a tendency to turn green wherever the copper wire is exposed, so using oxygen-free copper prevents that and allows for better conductivity. What is important when it comes to speaker cable is how far will the cable go will dictate what gauge to use. He sold me 8 feet of cable for just $1.45 a foot. He did say that twisting the left and right channel wires around each other seem to have a very small effect, that most probably wouldn't hear, but some with very sensitive hearing might hear an improvement, but older people such as him and myself lose about 20% of our upper-frequency hearing, we would never be able to hear the difference.
So why do people believe they hear a difference after the cables have run for at least 300 hours? Let's look at it differently, your brain is the one that identifies odors, and your nose is simply the receptacle when you go into someone else's home you smell their house, and think to yourself that your home doesn't have any odor, this person needs to clean better, the fact is your home does smell, but you have lived in it for many hours and got used to the smell and now you don't smell anything, but your friend comes over and they smell something. Your brain got used to the odor in your house and turned off the sensing of it. In Vietnam American troops if downwind from some Vietcong could smell them, well guess what? if they were downwind from us they could smell us too but we couldn't smell ourselves. I use that analogy because I know everyone reading this has had the smell thing going on. Well, that same thing happens to our hearing, when you think something is sounding better during a break-in period in regard to cables, the fact of the matter is your brain, via your ears, is what got "broken in" and not the wire.
I know that marketing forces have ingrained us to believe these things, but it's just marketing that made us believe this stuff because they put in a huge effort and expense to make us believe this stuff and with all the scientific psycho-babble stuff they use it appears to make sense, but it's all just that, psycho-babble.
I once had the chance to go talk to Dr. Amar Bose back around 1988 about something I can't go into here, he invited me to meet him at his office. In his office, he had 2 901 speakers on stands, but I immediately noticed something odd, they were pointed the wrong way, the ports were facing rearward, and the speakers were pointed out into the room, thereby canceling the direct reflecting science he was pushing, I asked him why the speakers were facing the wrong way when all the ads I've ever seen their facing speaker side toward the wall, he laughed and told me it's all about marketing; he also showed me his speaker cables, they were lamp cords!
I feel that Dr. Bose was more into imaging than he was about high-quality sound, I never cared for the sound of the 901's but they did have incredible imaging if placed correctly, but a lot of the times the imaging was too much making a singer sound like the singer's mouth was 4 feet wide, and what Dr. Bose did when he pointed the speakers in reverse and angled them properly was to make the sound clearer and yet image very well without over exaggerating the imaging. The best surround system I have ever heard was a guy that I knew used 2 901's in the front, and 2 901's for the rear speakers, and a Bose center channel speaker which I can't recall the model; the imaging, and the movement of the sound around the room was something I never heard from any other surround sound system, not even in theaters! In this case, the over-exaggeration of the imaging played into the surround sound effect favor.
Enough yapping, I'm don't want to get into a big fight here about cabling, if you all think that you can hear the difference then get whatever makes you happy and be done with it, now I'm done with this.
5 Myths About Speaker Wire | Machine Design
Best audiophile cables: Fact and fiction explained - SoundGuys
Debunking myths about audio cables - SoundGuys
Wire does not require any break-in regardless of what the wire is made of.
Even gold-plated speaker connectors don't affect sound, what it does do however is resist corrosion; having said that, where I live there is a place called Speaker Workshop, they repair speakers and high-end audio gear, the guy told me that all I need is oxygen-free copper wire to prevent oxidation, a good quality silicone insulated covering, and insert the wire bare into the connectors of both the speaker and the preamp because adding connectors can actually cause more problems with connectivity than using just the bare ends. I asked him about just using a lamp cord, and he agreed with what the above website said, but he said a lamp cord has a tendency to turn green wherever the copper wire is exposed, so using oxygen-free copper prevents that and allows for better conductivity. What is important when it comes to speaker cable is how far will the cable go will dictate what gauge to use. He sold me 8 feet of cable for just $1.45 a foot. He did say that twisting the left and right channel wires around each other seem to have a very small effect, that most probably wouldn't hear, but some with very sensitive hearing might hear an improvement, but older people such as him and myself lose about 20% of our upper-frequency hearing, we would never be able to hear the difference.
So why do people believe they hear a difference after the cables have run for at least 300 hours? Let's look at it differently, your brain is the one that identifies odors, and your nose is simply the receptacle when you go into someone else's home you smell their house, and think to yourself that your home doesn't have any odor, this person needs to clean better, the fact is your home does smell, but you have lived in it for many hours and got used to the smell and now you don't smell anything, but your friend comes over and they smell something. Your brain got used to the odor in your house and turned off the sensing of it. In Vietnam American troops if downwind from some Vietcong could smell them, well guess what? if they were downwind from us they could smell us too but we couldn't smell ourselves. I use that analogy because I know everyone reading this has had the smell thing going on. Well, that same thing happens to our hearing, when you think something is sounding better during a break-in period in regard to cables, the fact of the matter is your brain, via your ears, is what got "broken in" and not the wire.
I know that marketing forces have ingrained us to believe these things, but it's just marketing that made us believe this stuff because they put in a huge effort and expense to make us believe this stuff and with all the scientific psycho-babble stuff they use it appears to make sense, but it's all just that, psycho-babble.
I once had the chance to go talk to Dr. Amar Bose back around 1988 about something I can't go into here, he invited me to meet him at his office. In his office, he had 2 901 speakers on stands, but I immediately noticed something odd, they were pointed the wrong way, the ports were facing rearward, and the speakers were pointed out into the room, thereby canceling the direct reflecting science he was pushing, I asked him why the speakers were facing the wrong way when all the ads I've ever seen their facing speaker side toward the wall, he laughed and told me it's all about marketing; he also showed me his speaker cables, they were lamp cords!
I feel that Dr. Bose was more into imaging than he was about high-quality sound, I never cared for the sound of the 901's but they did have incredible imaging if placed correctly, but a lot of the times the imaging was too much making a singer sound like the singer's mouth was 4 feet wide, and what Dr. Bose did when he pointed the speakers in reverse and angled them properly was to make the sound clearer and yet image very well without over exaggerating the imaging. The best surround system I have ever heard was a guy that I knew used 2 901's in the front, and 2 901's for the rear speakers, and a Bose center channel speaker which I can't recall the model; the imaging, and the movement of the sound around the room was something I never heard from any other surround sound system, not even in theaters! In this case, the over-exaggeration of the imaging played into the surround sound effect favor.
Enough yapping, I'm don't want to get into a big fight here about cabling, if you all think that you can hear the difference then get whatever makes you happy and be done with it, now I'm done with this.
The breaking in of audio cables, regardless of what they are made of, is a myth.
Audio Cable "Break In" Science or Psychological? | Audioholics
Audio Cable "Break In" Science or Psychological? | Audioholics
I just experienced cable break in again firsthand.
10 Days ago, I bought a new set of the AudioQuest Thunderbird XLR 2M interconnects.
First impression, they sounded good, but then after about 30 hours of usage the music started sounding very closed in and with limited high frequencies. This continued until about 130 hours of music play time.
Then at this time, the cables started to open up and began to sound better and better each passing hour. I knew at the beginning they would come around because they sounded ok at first until the break in process started. But now they have way surpassed that original sound. Now the soundstage has become huge with fantastic frequency extensions. Very pleased with the results.
Scientifically I guess we can't prove cable break in is real, but with good equipment, good ears, it is clearly a real event.
ozzy
10 Days ago, I bought a new set of the AudioQuest Thunderbird XLR 2M interconnects.
First impression, they sounded good, but then after about 30 hours of usage the music started sounding very closed in and with limited high frequencies. This continued until about 130 hours of music play time.
Then at this time, the cables started to open up and began to sound better and better each passing hour. I knew at the beginning they would come around because they sounded ok at first until the break in process started. But now they have way surpassed that original sound. Now the soundstage has become huge with fantastic frequency extensions. Very pleased with the results.
Scientifically I guess we can't prove cable break in is real, but with good equipment, good ears, it is clearly a real event.
ozzy
With something like 50 years of experience in Hi-fi I’ve been lucky enough to experience a wide range of cables of every description. Interconnects (balanced and single ended), mains power, ethernet, USB, phono, DC. At the very outset, burn-in of cables was not a reported phenomenon and I was not aware of it at all so for me, at the time, it simply didn’t exist.
Then a couple of things happened. I was lucky enough to purchase a really outstanding sounding system, comprising Linn Turntable and speakers and Naim electronics. I loved the way it sounded from the very start, with tremendous listener involvement. It was recommended to keep the electronics switched on 24/7, based on the fact that constant power and heat was less stressful than the constant warming up and cooling down that a switched system undergoes. I still remember that on about the 6th day I sat down to listen and from the very first notes I felt that the system had been transformed into something sweeter, more natural, musical and flowing. I had no clue what caused it but still remember my response to hearing it. This gorgeous sound became the new norm.
A couple of years later, I decided to move my hi-fi to a different room that required a couple of extra sockets. I moved the system and temporarily used a 6 position power block that I bought for the purpose. I remember how disappointed I was at how the life of the music seemed to have been sucked out. I figured the power strip was to blame so I contacted an electrician and arranged to have a new radial installed. I’d read somewhere that a dedicated radial was highly beneficial so I looked forward to the installation but in the interim period, the sound quality with the power block seemed to improve by quite a margin.
The electrician installed the new radial and indeed sound quality improved….nice. But within 4 days I really wasn’t enjoying the sound, which had become exaggerated at certain frequencies, with a hard edge. I really didn’t understand why, so didn’t know what to do about it, but after about 2 weeks, all the enjoyment returned and I was back thoroughly enjoying the system.
As time went by, I swapped out more cables and each time the experience was similar. Initial enjoyment followed by a period of dissatisfaction that nearly always resolved to eventually deliver greater levels of satisfaction.
So when I started reading about the need for running in components and cables I understood immediately what this was about and never had a moments doubt that it was something real, as it was a perfect explanation for what I’d already been hearing for several years. Power cables can be particularly nasty and stubborn to the point that some cables were actually quite intolerable for the first several hundred hours (JPS Labs Kaptovator for example). As a consequence I bought some simple adaptors that consisted of a mains plug socket outlet and a female IEC connector input. I would then take any new Hi-Fi power cable, plug it into the wall, and plug the male IEC connector into my adaptor. To the mains socket end of the adaptor I would plug in something like a fridge or an oscillating fan and leave it running for up to several hundred hours (depending on the cable), periodically giving the new cable a try in the system. It was always crystal clear whether the new power cable was ready or not. It was easy to judge….was the music completely enjoyable with nothing to dislike or not? If the music still presented anomalies like hardness, frequency exaggerations or an ‘in-yer-face’ balance, the cable simply went back into the burn-in jig for more conditioning. For me this conclusively ruled out the popular but incorrect conjecture that burn-in is nothing more than user conditioning. It simply isn’t and a cable burn-in jig, where no active listening is involved gives an instantaneous result with zero listener acclimatisation.
So I have absolutely no doubt that cable burn-in a very real phenomenon
Finally, as my system improved, even used cables needed a few days of settling in to sound their best. A pair of used Synergistic Research Galileos sounded absolutely wonderful but at the same time slightly ‘digital’ following their journey from the USA. I was a little worried that all their extra detail was coming at a price, but 5 days in they were sounding simultaneously highly detailed and beautifully musical
Blackmorec,
Nice post, thank you.
Now that I think about it I too have over 50 years in this hobby. Remember Heathkits?
Anyway, it is still hard to believe that within this hobby there are still those who insist break in does not occur or it is somehow our hearing that adjusts to the different sound...
ozzy
Nice post, thank you.
Now that I think about it I too have over 50 years in this hobby. Remember Heathkits?
Anyway, it is still hard to believe that within this hobby there are still those who insist break in does not occur or it is somehow our hearing that adjusts to the different sound...
ozzy
Nope, your ears are simply getting used to it, plain and simple
Oh my. Thought you said you were done in Post 46. Hope you feel vindicated. You are funny treitz3. I don't think he gets it.
I built a jig to burn in power cables off line without any listening, because the listening can be slightly excruciating. The difference between a partly burned in and a fully burned in cable isn’t subtle. One has clear anomalies, the other doesn’t. One is fun to listen to, the other isn’t. No user acclimatisation involved, just a straightforward, “does it sound great’ yes of no?”
The Burn-in track on the XLO Test CD works like a charm to burn in the entire system at once. The only drawback is that it can take some time. A couple of days to two weeks. But even after one day on continuous play of the burn in track you can hear the improvement. It should probably be pointed out that cables don’t ever break in 100% by simply playing music through them. It requires more oomph. Like the burn-in track or electronic burn-in devices like the one Made by Alan Kafton. Even with those measures, the process should be repeated every so often, maybe once a year? You decide.
Last edited:
Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
@Geoffkait thanks for reminding me about the XLO CD. Also when you say not enough oomph what is “enough”?
Is it voltage, current, frequency or a combination? What is a good voltage or current level?
I recently got a new phono cable and have it hooked up between my DAC 3.5v and AVC to burn it in. Now I’m thinking maybe I should put it between the AVC and amp to push more current through it for the second half of burn in.
Is it voltage, current, frequency or a combination? What is a good voltage or current level?
I recently got a new phono cable and have it hooked up between my DAC 3.5v and AVC to burn it in. Now I’m thinking maybe I should put it between the AVC and amp to push more current through it for the second half of burn in.
He can / will just post in other places and folks will say "hell ya". Issue resolved.
Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
Well I don't have to look at here with hitting ignore. Wish he would go back to ASR or Audioholics.
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