Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian
 
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Audioblazer, I have owned three 3012Rs. The first one had the top bar jutting out far to one side. I found that I could simply push it back with my hand and mild pressure. I think this bar is only to keep the contraption aligned. The lower bar is the one that is adjustable with the allen wrench and what moves the counterweight assembly laterally. The top bar is only for alignment and works as a guide. You should be able to push it back in from one side so that it is more centered. It is smooth and only attached by friction to the plastic parts.
Mine is fixed tight . Couldn’t adjust it at all. Yes, I m aware the lower horizontal bar is adjustable for lateral balance . I turn it all the way out, the arm still drift towards the spindle . No such problem with the second arm with centered top bar . Lateral balance easily adjusted for my Miyajima infinity . Most of the 3012R I noticed has the top bar centered like the adv I posted . Hence I wonder whether that’s the cause of my difficulty in getting the lateral balance sorted out. If u see the photos carefully, the black assembly of both my 3012R is difference
 
Perhaps the internal wires are twisted to tight creating that pull you describe. I have encountered that myself and carefully removed the shielding can where the rca's are and untwisted or twisted the wire assembly so that the arm does not drift in or out when balancing. I hope this all makes some sense.
 
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Perhaps the internal wires are twisted to tight creating that pull you describe. I have encountered that myself and carefully removed the shielding can where the rca's are and untwisted or twisted the wire assembly so that the arm does not drift in or out when balancing. I hope this all makes some sense.
Ok will check this out
 
Trying to do a bit of experiment & test the sound of SME 3012R with sme metal knife edge bearing & bronze edge bearing to determine how it sound compare to the original nylon edge bearing of SME 3012R . However I noticed the nylon knife edge bearing has a centre extrusion to fit into the hole of the arm tube that I dont see in the bronze & metal knife edge bearing . Your advise appreciated . Thanks
 

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Trying to do a bit of experiment & test the sound of SME 3012R with sme metal knife edge bearing & bronze edge bearing to determine how it sound compare to the original nylon edge bearing of SME 3012R . However I noticed the nylon knife edge bearing has a centre extrusion to fit into the hole of the arm tube that I dont see in the bronze & metal knife edge bearing . Your advise appreciated . Thanks
When you want test some tweaks for SME here a good adress.
the workmanship is excellent, everything fits like a good glove
 
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When you want test some tweaks for SME here a good adress.
the workmanship is excellent, everything fits like a good glove
Tq. Did bought some stuff from him . Kokomo bearing version 1 . Put a dent on my Garrard spindle . He was nice enough to send me a mod after 10 years . Amazing
 
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Trying to do a bit of experiment & test the sound of SME 3012R with sme metal knife edge bearing & bronze edge bearing to determine how it sound compare to the original nylon edge bearing of SME 3012R . However I noticed the nylon knife edge bearing has a centre extrusion to fit into the hole of the arm tube that I dont see in the bronze & metal knife edge bearing . Your advise appreciated . Thanks
FYI . Center “ extrusion “of the plastic bearing is due to moulding.. Anyway , sorted it out . Changed to metal bearing . Worth the hassle . Easier to snag the ground spade with a longer screw . Took me hours to figure it out
 
Hi folks. I'm an old timer (does anyone remember the Audiomart-before-audiogon pamphlet from Crewe, VA showing up in the mailbox, you and everyone else devouring it like your last meal?) and I'm just returning to the game. I really appreciate all of the learned and mature voices here.

I've been accumulating pieces through the years, here and there. Picked up an NIB NOS SME 3012R Pro, three or four years back. Beautiful thing, but wondering, reading here, whether I should have opted for a standard 3012-R, an earlier one with the copper wire in the arm tube, earlier copper IC...Because I used to despise silver (harmonically thinned, phased at best...space as a void, worse the farther rearward in the stage, etc....) and always rewired my arms with copper.

The SME 3012-R Pro with silver....looks nice in black exterior livery, but was it a mistake?

DDK sounds like an oracle to me, notwithstanding the jabs from the Oort cloud. I know when it sounds real...or authentic...or "natural."

BTW, I've been subsisting through the years on my 3rd old system, see the photo.. Sublime really, late at night with jazz, female vocals, and especially with the NOS Genalex B749 inputs in the AirTight.

I have first-year production hammertone 301 sorted by Dobbins sitting lonely in a box...BUT, just bought a plinth, allegedly arriving in April. Was planning on mating it all together with the 3012-R Pro...now wondering about the silver.

Thanks for the help. Mark.

.
 

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Hi folks. I'm an old timer (does anyone remember the Audiomart-before-audiogon pamphlet from Crewe, VA showing up in the mailbox, you and everyone else devouring it like your last meal?) and I'm just returning to the game. I really appreciate all of the learned and mature voices here.

I've been accumulating pieces through the years, here and there. Picked up an NIB NOS SME 3012R Pro, three or four years back. Beautiful thing, but wondering, reading here, whether I should have opted for a standard 3012-R, an earlier one with the copper wire in the arm tube, earlier copper IC...Because I used to despise silver (harmonically thinned, phased at best...space as a void, worse the farther rearward in the stage, etc....) and always rewired my arms with copper.

The SME 3012-R Pro with silver....looks nice in black exterior livery, but was it a mistake?

DDK sounds like an oracle to me, notwithstanding the jabs from the Oort cloud. I know when it sounds real...or authentic...or "natural."

BTW, I've been subsisting through the years on my 3rd old system, see the photo.. Sublime really, late at night with jazz, female vocals, and especially with the NOS Genalex B749 inputs in the AirTight.

I have first-year production hammertone 301 sorted by Dobbins sitting lonely in a box...BUT, just bought a plinth, allegedly arriving in April. Was planning on mating it all together with the 3012-R Pro...now wondering about the silver.

Thanks for the help. Mark.

.
Hi Mark,
Stick with the standard 3102-R !
The internal silver wiring of the Pro actually isn’t that bad and you’ll still get great sound but throw away the blue phono cable that comes with it.

david
 
Hi folks. I'm an old timer (does anyone remember the Audiomart-before-audiogon pamphlet from Crewe, VA showing up in the mailbox, you and everyone else devouring it like your last meal?) and I'm just returning to the game. I really appreciate all of the learned and mature voices here.

I've been accumulating pieces through the years, here and there. Picked up an NIB NOS SME 3012R Pro, three or four years back. Beautiful thing, but wondering, reading here, whether I should have opted for a standard 3012-R, an earlier one with the copper wire in the arm tube, earlier copper IC...Because I used to despise silver (harmonically thinned, phased at best...space as a void, worse the farther rearward in the stage, etc....) and always rewired my arms with copper.

The SME 3012-R Pro with silver....looks nice in black exterior livery, but was it a mistake?

DDK sounds like an oracle to me, notwithstanding the jabs from the Oort cloud. I know when it sounds real...or authentic...or "natural."

BTW, I've been subsisting through the years on my 3rd old system, see the photo.. Sublime really, late at night with jazz, female vocals, and especially with the NOS Genalex B749 inputs in the AirTight.

I have first-year production hammertone 301 sorted by Dobbins sitting lonely in a box...BUT, just bought a plinth, allegedly arriving in April. Was planning on mating it all together with the 3012-R Pro...now wondering about the silver.

Thanks for the help. Mark.

.
I normally try to avoid admitting a mistake by thinking it is another experience I am accumulating :). I find the copper phono wire from 3012R works excellent. I had tried both a silver gold and pure silver phono cords. They were very expensive and not practical. With silver in cord, you would get more air, more space between instrument, more detail sound presenting to you, faster transient, much more articulation on bass, more holographic presentation from them. But why am I not using it? Because the copper no extra cost stock cable from sme gives me "normalness". Funny. The more I listen stereo the more normal I would like my system to sound. Normal as I can hear when go out to a hotel lobby listening a lady singing playing piano at coffee shop. If she performs well I would smile, enjoy and give her some tips. Just never once went out to the place anticipating to hear spectacular "sound." Copper cables that I am using play much more normal than silver I have tried.
 
It depends which kind of copper and silver you are using. The real old copper was/is excellent due to the production standard of those times (see Western Electric or SME). Today if you are using a modern wiring a fine silver litz offers many chances.
 
Just speculating but maybe the choice of wiring at any point maybe influenced heavily by the predominant characteristics of the electronics and gear or the nature of the tubes or amps being wired together as to which which cable metal is then the most true individual system best fit.

Everyone’s experience here points to Lamm’s great love of copper as the default best fit for its particular natural sound characteristics.

However Kondo, Shindo, Thomas Mayer seems to spec towards silver for their top shelf. If I had a Lamm amp or pre based on everyone’s experience here I’d definitely lean to simpler copper signal cables. David’s, Peter’s and Tang’s experience seem to continuously point towards that.

For a system characterised by 300B, 211, 845, 805, 801A tube based electronics I’d be more open to explore upocc silver for the wiring all the way through. Personally I’ve never found mixed alloys quite so ideal and silver over copper less ideal than either running all good copper or all good silver, but I am sure there are applications where mixed alloys of gold and silver or palladium might be good and that platinum might be the most extraordinarily unobtainium one of all.

I do feel that once you’ve built a system around either upocc silver or a good copper for me it’s hard to change and to mix in another element within the chain. But people do mix n match and the world doesn’t seem to stop spinning. The whole cable thing seems at times very emotional and fraught with everyone else’s mythologies. These just happen to be my own and yes I aim towards the more natural and reflective of live acoustic music and (when everything aligns) then with occasional moments of realness.
 
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Thanks for all of the replies. I forgot to say that the photo'd system - Spendor 15ohm LS/35As, AirTight, Kondo copper spkr wire, NBS Pro I RCA IC - usually has a Joule Electra LA200 pre and phono with it, but they need to go to the shop for a refresher (they are old friends; like a worn out pair of moccasins you still put on every morning...plummy down low and a tad sweet in the highs, but you tend to forget that when you close your eyes...). This is my "den" system now, since I bought my retirement home last May. I now have a 15 X 25 basement space that I am renovating into a stereo room, should be done in a year or so. I need a main system to play larger scale work, so have been mulling around what to do with that main system space. Thinking SF Strads, thinking AF V with the 3012R on it (have a Koetsu RSP in a box too...not sure how that will fit in...)...have some time to think about it. In the meantime, thought I'd pull the 301 out (its now sitting in the photo), get a plinth and fire up the 3012R combo. Sounds fun, right?! And I have a TNT4/Graham 2.2 in boxes that I need to get out and sell too....Anyway, plenty of places to make mistakes! But I've been around enough to know how to avoid some of those ruts in the road. And I, of course, have you all to help me...

ddk: Thank you, somewhat relieved. I'm too lazy to sell the 3012 Pro and hunt down a standard. So, will keep the Pro....now just need to find someone who will sell me an early copper SME IC...I'll start looking tomorrow. We'll see....

Tango: Loved the "I normally try to avoid admitting a mistake by thinking it is another experience I am accumulating." I'm a writer and know a great line when I see one....actually, we see things very similarly. And I think your "normal" and ddk's "natural" are quite similar ideas, thinking about the same experience. When you sit down to listen to your stereo, we are thinking, cognition still whirling, perhaps even from things that happened that day. Then we begin to listen and the grip of thinking fades into no-thinking, or receptive mind. So we put together stereos (like making a great sauce; a construction of flavors) with thinking-mind, trying to construct what no-thinking mind will then experience. When you heard that lady singing like a sweet bird at the coffee shop, what mind heard it? I think many have to come full circle in this hobby, like a black belt that finally fades back to white; back to searching for "natural" with "normal-receptive" mind. Hope that wasn't too abstract...as I said, hard to talk (think) about no-thinking mind.

Silver vs. copper: I agree with you both, Airtangent and Tao of Sound. When I say "old timer" then I imply oldest silver wire, and I know much has changed over the years. I have no problem mixing flavors to find a balance. Tonal/harmonic equilibrium is a valued goal. I have found, though, with silver, that no matter how its 'sound' is constructed by its inventor, there still remains a vestige of an imbalance; in this case, an imbalance between source and space. In other words, in silver cabling I hear an inherent balancing toward, as an inherent bias, in weighting energy into the source, and, then, within the source projection of sound, into the transient. The transient I can perhaps deal with, balance out, but having space behave more as a void, and less as a dimensional vessel, is very difficult to get out of the sauce once mixed in. I've heard transparently exciting silver-based systems, but I require a vast dimensional space where sounds dissipates into the outer reaches in a symmetrical and "natural" way. I am very senstive to such things, so maybe its just me, my problem to deal with. There are a thousand paths up soul mountain (actually, infinite paths...but that's not the saying).

Thank you again everyone for your help. Off in search of SME copper wire!! (and so the obsession goes...)
 
Just speculating but maybe the choice of wiring at any point maybe influenced heavily by the predominant characteristics of the electronics and gear or the nature of the tubes or amps being wired together as to which which cable metal is then the most true individual system best fit.

Everyone’s experience here points to Lamm’s great love of copper as the default best fit for its particular natural sound characteristics.

However Kondo, Shindo, Thomas Mayer seems to spec towards silver for their top shelf. If I had a Lamm amp or pre based on everyone’s experience here I’d definitely lean to simpler copper signal cables. David’s, Peter’s and Tang’s experience seem to continuously point towards that.

For a system characterised by 300B, 211, 845, 805, 801A tube based electronics I’d be more open to explore upocc silver for the wiring all the way through. Personally I’ve never found mixed alloys quite so ideal and silver over copper less ideal than either running all good copper or all good silver, but I am sure there are applications where mixed alloys of gold and silver or palladium might be good and that platinum might be the most extraordinarily unobtainium one of all.

I do feel that once you’ve built a system around either upocc silver or a good copper for me it’s hard to change and to mix in another element within the chain. But people do mix n match and the world doesn’t seem to stop spinning. The whole cable thing seems at times very emotional and fraught with everyone else’s mythologies. These just happen to be my own and yes I aim towards the more natural and reflective of live acoustic music and (when everything aligns) then with occasional moments of realness.
My experience with cords, cables and wires is that they sound and behave the same in any system irrespective of brands, topology, etc. wires don't suddenly change character because of where one sticks them. Personal preference is a different thing, for me any type of silver is completely out no matter where in the chain it appears even if it's just the cartridge leads the same is true for all UPOCC wires simply too colored, I just can't stand any of those conductors or cables made from them. Again, personal preference excludes majority of audiophile wires I have heard and it has nothing to do with Lamm.

david
 
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BTW, can someone post a photo of the SME early copper IC I'm looking for? I'm sure its back somewhere in this thread, just can't find it. Also, anything I need to look out for? Thanks, Mark
 
Hi Asa (and my other online audio friends) - A very Nice bump to this favorite thread. It’s helpful to read and reflect on everyone’s thoughts and observations here. There’s so much to learn from the accumulated experiences. It really helps make this hobby fun… to think that so much consideration could be given to a tonearm, let alone a tonearm cable! It does make me laugh a little. I also remind myself that it’s about curiosity, and we are a curious bunch of people - and, isn’t curiosity the best indicator of intelligence :cool:…. I’m not sure what that ramble was about.

Anyway, to the point: I have three different 3012 tonearms - two R versions and an original series 1. I had always used the original copper wire, following sage wisdom from DDK and others. I had a set of Kimber silver IC’s in a drawer and figured what the hell, let’s see what happens - that curiosity thing. Long story short, I really liked them. I wondered what their purpose built silver phono IC’s might sound like, so I bought a pair of those and liked them even better.… sorry DDK :oops::)

It has been a while since I swapped this stuff. I apologize that I don’t still have a strong recollection about the details of how they compared in my room. I’d also say that I’ve long given up on going back and forth listening to every little detail between cables, or anything else - I used to make my wife listen as I’d swap cables or whatever. I’d have friends over to listen and compare too. These days, I tend to go more with how it makes me feel; am I enjoying the music more, am I smiling, are me feet tapping…… maybe this also aligns with Tang‘s “normal” and DDK’s “natural”?
 

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