Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian

 

Here you go Asa. These are photos of both ends of the NOS SME 3012R RCA phono cables that came with my arms. They appear to be the same as the one posted by djsina2.

View attachment 89590

View attachment 89591

Yes, but the same SME connectors is not enough to be sure that it is the David approved SME cable - they have more than one type of cable with these plugs. Unless you have a very detailed photo of the details of the cable and preferably a measurement of the exact capacitance it is hard to tell. At some moment I bought several used SME 3012R's and two had different cables, although the plugs the same SME ones.

Before someone asks, I sold them except the best looking one, that I kept for the TechDas 12" position.

Edit - just to add we had several past threads in WBF about this arm, even questioning the origin of the wire used in the NOS cable - some people suggested it was from van den Hul - but I never saw a definitive confirmation on this subject.

 

I don‘t have a list Francisco I’ll look around if someone needs them and make recommendations, don’t really deal in any wires @Lagonda isn’t far off with his MM comment.

I see your point. But these are poor news for Lamm users or people who have interest in the brand - and as far as I know Lamm does not use wire or components from the MM age in his electronics.

Tchernov is Lamm’s Russian distributor too so there’s other business relationship aside from the shows. Trust me any brand officially listed in a Lamm room paid for the privilege the only exception was probably Wilson.

Interesting. I knew of such practices in many brands, but thought Lamm was more a family affair - I saw they often borrow gear from you.

Among the “audiophile“ cables Tchernov has it’s own unique and exceptional qualities which separates it from all others it would be at the top of my list but it’s still a do something “audiophile“ wire which I don’t care for.

david

Thanks for the advice. BTW, I was looking mainly for your opinion on current inexpensive professional copper cables. Did you ever try using the SME NOS cables as ICs?

 

I see your point. But these are poor news for Lamm users or people who have interest in the brand - and as far as I know Lamm does not use wire or components from the MM age in his electronics.

He will go with the audiophile fashion like everyone else but he doesn't care much for them for his private listening.

Interesting. I knew of such practices in many brands, but thought Lamm was more a family affair - I saw they often borrow gear from you.

When there's not a paying partner, yes .

Thanks for the advice. BTW, I was looking mainly for your opinion on current inexpensive professional copper cables. Did you ever try using the SME NOS cables as ICs?

There are a number of excellent cables available problem is that everything is a compromise they each excel in some things but none is perfect. That's my approach to wires I picked something that I like with the least compromise, of course very high resolution and naturalness are the no compromise zones and where I find "oddiophile" wires lose out to pro and commercial ones. We can always discuss nuances among brands offline if you're searching for something.

Yes, but the same SME connectors is not enough to be sure that it is the David approved SME cable - they have more than one type of cable with these plugs. Unless you have a very detailed photo of the details of the cable and preferably a measurement of the exact capacitance it is hard to tell. At some moment I bought several used SME 3012R's and two had different cables, although the plugs the same SME ones.

Before someone asks, I sold them except the best looking one, that I kept for the TechDas 12" position.

Edit - just to add we had several past threads in WBF about this arm, even questioning the origin of the wire used in the NOS cable - some people suggested it was from van den Hul - but I never saw a definitive confirmation on this subject.

Over time SME had different phono cables for their arms, IME they're all excellent and one wouldn't go wrong with any of them.

david

 

david, Q: an SME phono IC that looks like the photo posted by Peter, but has a dark grey sheath, as opposed to black exterior shown above...what is that?

 

david, Q: an SME phono IC that looks like the photo posted by Peter, but has a dark grey sheath, as opposed to black exterior shown above...what is that?

Just another generation just make sure that it has the the gold plated RCAs, I’ve seen some nickel plated ones around and don’t know what they are.

david

 

Over time SME had different phono cables for their arms, IME they're all excellent and one wouldn't go wrong with any of them.

david

It is why it should be great to know about its origin. Can you confirm/deny the van den Hul source hypothesis?

 

It is why it should be great to know about its origin. Can you confirm/deny the van den Hul source hypothesis?

I can only confirm the internal wiring was vdH at some point and the last generation of phono which was the hybrid copper/graphite mix but I don’t know about the earlier generations.

david

 

Thanks, david.

 

Stay away any van den hul cable on tonearms, both internal and external. Especially later silver inner cables and hybrid external ones like 501. Although their copper cables are not that bad but I still prefer the old (60’s and 70’s) SME cables. IMHO SME’s old cables are not great either but match the tonearm’s overall sound signature. I would pick them up any day over van den hul. Make sure there is no capacitor soldered inside RCA plugs.

 

So many SME 3012 R fans - surprised no one has bought this gold arm from juki

 

I can only confirm the internal wiring was vdH at some point and the last generation of phono which was the hybrid copper/graphite mix but I don’t know about the earlier generations.

david

FYI: just found & bought an SME phono IC in Germany...not new, we'll see how much the pins are dinged up, but looks exactly like Peter's photos. I'll give it a try once the plinth etc gets here. Thanks again for the help. Mark

 

FYI: just found & bought an SME phono IC in Germany...not new, we'll see how much the pins are dinged up, but looks exactly like Peter's photos. I'll give it a try once the plinth etc gets here. Thanks again for the help. Mark

How much did it cost you? I am currently using the sme cable of my other arm for the other end of my SUT. I need another pair. But actually being me I am still playing around with other cables (You want to find diamond you have to keep digging. Even ddk doesn't stop digging .) Another rca cable was just delivered to me. I hooked it from sut to mm input. Only listened 4-5 songs but extremely promising...unlike very expensive cable I have tried. Sent from Japan costed me $90. Cannot let ddk does all the digging. We should be in a game finding cheap but excellent and hi5 when find one.

 

How much did it cost you? I am currently using the sme cable of my other arm for the other end of my SUT. I need another pair. But actually being me I am still playing around with other cables (You want to find diamond you have to keep digging. Even ddk doesn't stop digging .) Another rca cable was just delivered to me. I hooked it from sut to mm input. Only listened 4-5 songs but extremely promising...unlike very expensive cable I have tried. Sent from Japan costed me $90. Cannot let ddk does all the digging. We should be in a game finding cheap but excellent and hi5 when find one.

99 euro + 15 for ship/tax. I'm lucky at these things; when I'm not writing books, my wife and I are what Americans call, "pickers," albeit high-ended ones. We collect Louis Majorelle furniture, impressionist paintings (although not at the level many of you here are capable of). Tiffany glass, et al, and flip a lot else. That is, at least until this crazy market showed up (an Abercrombie painting, a decent one with female imagery, would have gone for $5K 5 years ago - I told my wife to buy 4 of them...she didn't....an average one just went for $130K at auction!). It's fun; we drive around all over the country, hit diners all along the way, meet lots of interesting people...so I've always been able to find things...they just kind of show up. Not too lucky at much else I'm afraid! Anyway, I'll plug the SME IC into the system once I get the plinth/arm thing together....I'm the final judge of my system (as I tell people who read my books, "I am the God in my book-worlds") and if I don't like it, one of you can buy it, have it free, whatever.

By the way, if you are sampling cables for SUT--to-pre/line applications, you might want to take a look at the Level 3 cables from Graceline....

 

How much did it cost you? I am currently using the sme cable of my other arm for the other end of my SUT. I need another pair. But actually being me I am still playing around with other cables (You want to find diamond you have to keep digging. Even ddk doesn't stop digging .) Another rca cable was just delivered to me. I hooked it from sut to mm input. Only listened 4-5 songs but extremely promising...unlike very expensive cable I have tried. Sent from Japan costed me $90. Cannot let ddk does all the digging. We should be in a game finding cheap but excellent and hi5 when find one.

By the way, what's the not-hideously-priced-but promising-cable you just received and are trying out? I need one myself to go from a Tim P/EAR "The Head" step up to my line stage. Have been looking around...mulling it over (I don't like buying too-expensive cable....which is a relative statement, of course)

 

By the way, what's the not-hideously-priced-but promising-cable you just received and are trying out? I need one myself to go from a Tim P/EAR "The Head" step up to my line stage. Have been looking around...mulling it over (I don't like buying too-expensive cable....which is a relative statement, of course)

Denon LC OFC. They were made in the mid 80's under Hitachi patent. Hitachi also made these cables in their own brand in three different models I believe. I just bought one Hitachi rca too just to find out if there is anysonic difference from Denon. Since they are no longer produced the availability is limited now. This copper cable sounded dull at first. After a week constant playing it opened up.

In comparison to the stock SME, the Denon has

Little more:
- tonal density, depth
- hollow sound of brass wind instrument
- woody sound
- convex sound instead of flatter surface on cymbal
- vibrato,
- shading, definition

Little less:
- lively, direct sound, open
- loud
- sound width of instrument (sound radiation)
- splashy cymbal
- instrument resonance hangs in the air (piano, triangle, cymbal)
- punch, bite, physical bass

The above differences are only in degree that dont make any of them better overall than one another. Some music sound better with SME, some with Denon. They both are great phono cable that do not "over-expose sound" at you. They don't give you bat ears that you hear every sound so well it becomes more homogeneous, less contrast and differentiation. And they cost around $90 a pop. If you have multi arms multi carts in your vinyl front, it only benefits you to have one of this in your system.

 

Denon LC OFC. They were made in the mid 80's under Hitachi patent. Hitachi also made these cables in their own brand in three different models I believe. I just bought one Hitachi rca too just to find out if there is anysonic difference from Denon. Since they are no longer produced the availability is limited now. This copper cable sounded dull at first. After a week constant playing it opened up.

In comparison to the stock SME, the Denon has

Little more:
- tonal density, depth
- hollow sound of brass wind instrument
- woody sound
- convex sound instead of flatter surface on cymbal
- vibrato,
- shading, definition

Little less:
- lively, direct sound, open
- loud
- sound width of instrument (sound radiation)
- splashy cymbal
- instrument resonance hangs in the air (piano, triangle, cymbal)
- punch, bite, physical bass

The above differences are only in degree that dont make any of them better overall than one another. Some music sound better with SME, some with Denon. They both are great phono cable that do not "over-expose sound" at you. They don't give you bat ears that you hear every sound so well it becomes more homogeneous, less contrast and differentiation. And they cost around $90 a pop. If you have multi arms multi carts in your vinyl front, it only benefits you to have one of this in your system.

Thank you for this information. I tried a number of vintage Hitachi and found the higher the "N", the more polite the sound. More refine maybe, but more polite overall as well. I believe this goes along with your findings above as well?

 

Thank you for this information. I tried a number of vintage Hitachi and found the higher the "N", the more polite the sound. More refine maybe, but more polite overall as well. I believe this goes along with your findings above as well?

I was gonna say more compose. Could be the same meaning as your polite.
What model is your Hitachi?

 

The green one sax112, the black 203 and the white one 6n I believe. I think I have a cheap ear, I don't seem to like very pure copper wire.

 

I like convex cymbals.

 

Denon LC OFC. They were made in the mid 80's under Hitachi patent. Hitachi also made these cables in their own brand in three different models I believe. I just bought one Hitachi rca too just to find out if there is anysonic difference from Denon. Since they are no longer produced the availability is limited now. This copper cable sounded dull at first. After a week constant playing it opened up.

In comparison to the stock SME, the Denon has

Little more:
- tonal density, depth
- hollow sound of brass wind instrument
- woody sound
- convex sound instead of flatter surface on cymbal
- vibrato,
- shading, definition

Little less:
- lively, direct sound, open
- loud
- sound width of instrument (sound radiation)
- splashy cymbal
- instrument resonance hangs in the air (piano, triangle, cymbal)
- punch, bite, physical bass

The above differences are only in degree that dont make any of them better overall than one another. Some music sound better with SME, some with Denon. They both are great phono cable that do not "over-expose sound" at you. They don't give you bat ears that you hear every sound so well it becomes more homogeneous, less contrast and differentiation. And they cost around $90 a pop. If you have multi arms multi carts in your vinyl front, it only benefits you to have one of this in your system.

View attachment 89930

Thanks, Tango. Interesting...I just found one of the Denons - looks just like yours, even still has the protective clear sleeves over the barrels - so I bought it, will give it a try. Your right, at $100US, not much to lose!