Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian

 

thanks ASA. Will be in the US in July - where are you located?
I will be around Atlanta, Florida and New York.
best from Vietnam, Con Dao

E.

www.AudioCirc.com

Hi E. That's kind of you. Unfortunately, I'm 1.5 hours north of Chicago; I can't even get my adult kids to come out from the city and visit! Also, your expertise would be wasted on my 2nd system that I have now (see photo) and that's in my front den. We bought this home last May and it has a reasonably sized basement room (25 X 15) that I have to renovate into a listening room....a project that's about a year off to completion I estimate. I've been picking up pieces here and there in preparation - Tim P's "The Head" step up trannie (I think TwoGoodEars has some experience with it...), a Garrard 301 hammertone, 301 plinth on the way, the 3012-R...a Koetsu RSP - but no speakers yet, and not sure how it will all come together, or what will end up in the den or downstairs. That's why I came to WBF last month; looking for advice, inspiration, etc. And, I need to get my tube pre some TLC too, was hoping to get Ralph K to take a look at it if he's in town for AXPONA later this month...Pretty much an audio mess! I admit it, though...I am jealous of everyone here visiting each other and experiencing such great systems - sounds fun...my dad was an audiophile, when I was in high school, and all his friends on the street were audiophiles too (pilots all hang out together...) and I remember them all getting together on Saturday nights drinking too much wine and talking gear and listening to great tunes. Good times....thanks again for the kind thought. Mark

 

Dont give up early when you try. Reward is there for thouse who have patient. An hour ago I was listening and just shook my head how this cable turning into butterfly.

Tango, you're right; I haven't heard many ICs that change in this way. Most wire changes to a plateau, then changes again to the next plateau, but there is usually some continual symmetry to it, as in, in 'how' it is changing. This Denon....just when I think it must be done, and it stabilizes for a few hours, I come back and a trait that I thought was endemic has evaporated. For instance, a slight glare in the upper mids hung around forever while things changed all around it, seemed to be part of the voice of the wire...and then gone.

My impression so far: great energy, fantastic tone and interplay between the players/singers et al...piano is tonally, harmonically beautiful (and I'm big on beauty in my stereo...and just about everything else for that matter...). With that said, though, I'd still like to hear greater rear hall ambience...the wire is immersive mid-hall and extends the soundfield out to the listening chair - something I really love - but the rear sound projections, far back, seem smaller in scale, both in size and energy, than they should be relative to the enhanced energy of the mid-hall players. Maybe that will change too, but that may be what it is. And which creates a quandary, as my NBS ICs (series I, not the later iterations) excell in this regard...and voices with the NBS have more lushness in the whispered transient too. We''ll see, but they are definite keepers; hoping, like with a great sauce, I can weave the sound perspectives together.

 

BTW, Tango, I like the Denon so much I went out and found another set, new from the 80s still in the bag. A guy with a old old Denon CD player had 'em in a box.

 

BTW, Tango, I like the Denon so much I went out and found another set, new from the 80s still in the bag. A guy with a old old Denon CD player had 'em in a box.

I was going to ask you if you want to sell the Denon wire to me in case you dont like. I have two sets of 1 meter. I would like more sets. If you could spare me a set I will buy at twice the price you got.

 

Btw, not all Japanese OFC wire sound the same. I tried the Hitachi OFC. It has sweet high. No bass. And the the glare you talked about is still there after 20 days.

 

The speed of this Denon is pretty good too. The high is all there but unlike silver . I like its tonal balance. The only down side is the depth of back stage as you said but it is just a different type of presentation.

Sorry. It is 3012R thread. I will stop posting cable now.

 

The speed of this Denon is pretty good too. The high is all there but unlike silver . I like its tonal balance. The only down side is the depth of back stage as you said but it is just a different type of presentation.

Sorry. It is 3012R thread. I will stop posting cable now.

Well, Tango, it's silly to say anything against your beautiful system; its a mature, graceful sound that you have created. And although I am only listening now through these LS/35As, I posit that with the Denons iit may be more than a presentation issue. Yes, many times when a sound is different, particularly in ddk's reference to an increased "natural' perspective (which I will talk about if anyone is interested...I published a few things on it many years ago), one needs a period of time to 're-orientate" to what one is hearing.

And yet, there are limits in saying this. For instance, if you put on the "Gladiator" soundtrack (yes, I know, an audio trope amongst many here...but I'm a romantic idealist, in the strict philosophic sense, and love ancient Roman history, and so its an audio regression experience for me...) and listen to the far back kodo-like drums...well, they should ripple through space to you like thunder., accentuating the battle. The Denons barely know they are there. This is an omission. And one that diminishes the experiential gestalt of the piece; its panoramic intent; your deepening exepience of it. And that type of omission is never positive, mid-venue energy or not.

As I said, I'm torn about it. If it was only about that jazz trio in a 1920s Paris club, it would be no contest; the Denon excels. And although at the pearly gates I might opt for that Paris club forever, for now, the issue remains.

As I said, not sure...have to think about it more, listen more, of course. But...

 

Yes, many times when a sound is different, particularly in ddk's reference to an increased "natural' perspective (which I will talk about if anyone is interested...I published a few things on it many years ago), one needs a period of time to 're-orientate" to what one is hearing.

Asa, Please share your thoughts about natural sound. I’m interested but in a different thread.

 

Ah...faster than I thought.

Tango, here are the SME/Denon cords i found (see photo), also tracked down another Denon IC.

Peter, if you would, I can't slog through all of the "natural" posts...can you concisely tell me, for you, what is "natural sound"? Three or four sentences. Or maybe david could and he and I can proceed.

 

Peter............can you concisely tell me, for you, what is "natural sound"? Three or four sentences. Or maybe david could.............

and.....here.....we......goooooooooo

 

Peter, just so you know, I read some of your thoughts the other day, on when you first set up your Vitvox's - your sense of discovery - and found it inspiring. Maybe you could excerpt that and post it, as a starting point?

Or better, probably, you could just let david know...he can chime in his perspective.

 

Ah, Mike, you of little confidence. Pick a seat. Get butter on your popcorn.

 

Peter, yes, I quite know what you hoped, and I was quite specific on my descriptors on this inquiry vis-a-vis the Denon cord; its not beyond scope.

Go tell david.

 

Ah, Mike, you of little confidence. Pick a seat. Get butter on your popcorn.

just having a little fun......only a little. we can't take ourselves too seriously . but THAT word does tend to suck us into a whirlwind. ok, done now. jumping off.....

 

don’t concern yourself Mike so no need for silly emojis. I’m not taking the bait.

But Peter, as a foil, I've watched you lay the bait again and again...I mean, every time someone asks about 'natural sound' you rush right in with the identical inquiry, "Please give me your thoughts on natural sound.' (I think you chimed in on me 2 seconds after my post..). And then I ask you for 2-3 sentences, and you retreat. That's not 'silly emojis', that's symptomatic.

Actually, I agree with your "natural sound" thingee. And, so we understand, I decry scientific materialist bores.

But what I really don't like are smart, educated guys...

Feels like Dertoarm/Nandric/Syntax audiogon-world to me....

ddk, interested in your thoughts.

 

ddk, interested in your thoughts.

Now who's laying bait ...

Waukesha?

 

But what I really don't like are smart, educated guys...

Most people who spend on hifi aren't smart, so you are in good company. This is the most expensive forum.

 

Now who's laying bait ...

Waukesha?

That's quite true. What's "Waukesha"? You have me there.

No one has to reply. They shouldn't actually. Just making a point; about motes in eyes and all.

I think it was the glee some people were reveling in over at the Will Smith fiasco-thread that caught my attention. 'Woke' here and 'woke' there, and I said, 'ridiculous,' but that had no meaning, blah, blah, like a recording someone set off in their heads once their ears heard a certain stimulus. I thought this supposed to be a political-free zone? I'm not here to defend any culture, and I was a prosecutor long ago for 10 yrs before starting to write, so I know what an Agg Batt looks like...but the gleeful pile on and knee-jerk transference to 'woke-ness' led me to have a little less patience with some here.

 

Most people who spend on hifi aren't smart, so you are in good company. This is the most expensive forum.

Ha! That's true, about the money. But that's OK. I'm not wealthy, but I don't begrudge people who are. My sister has a yacht, and a bunch of houses and that's a good thing, I'm happy for her. And, remember, we all eat better than the Czar did 150 years ago, and are here talking about some pretty expensive configurations of plastic and metal....so I still feel very lucky. As long as one tries to remember that one is a homo sapiens amongst the rest, living on a still beautiful hunk of rock spinning at 171,000 mph, a mote in the B2 spiral arm of what we call the Milky Way galaxy, and....money or not, that's always good to keep in mind. And if that's not enough to get your attention, then I refer you to Pascal's bet...

 

That's quite true. What's "Waukesha"? You have me there.

No one has to reply. They shouldn't actually. Just making a point; about motes in eyes and all.

I think it was the glee some people were reveling in over at the Will Smith fiasco-thread that caught my attention. 'Woke' here and 'woke' there, and I said, 'ridiculous,' but that had no meaning, blah, blah, like a recording someone set off in their heads once their ears heard a certain stimulus. I thought this supposed to be a political-free zone? I'm not here to defend any culture, and I was a prosecutor long ago for 10 yrs before starting to write, so I know what an Agg Batt looks like...but the gleeful pile on and knee-jerk transference to 'woke-ness' led me to have a little less patience with some here.

I don't think it had anything to do with politics. People just calling out what they perceived to be wrong.