Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian

 

What are the other factors for higher inner groove distortion?

-First of all alignment geometry. Stevenson is lowest, Lofgren B is the highest on the inner grooves but there shouldn’t be any problem with any of them if properly set up.
-Second culprit is improper zenith alignment or anti-skating, azimuth or even SRA.
-Another possible problem area could be worn out lateral bearings of the tonearm.
-Deterioration of cartridge suspension or diamond or even the stylus shape can be a problem (shibata is very sensitive to alignment and can be very sibilant).
-Misalignment of any other parameters
-Last but not least small inclination or declination of platter closer to spindle. When you placed the record on platter, record surface should be flat from outer groove to innermost groove or at least should be the same angle throughout. You can check it with a small bubble level. This can only cause high distortion in extreme conditions and impair azimuth more.

 

-First of all alignment geometry. Stevenson is lowest, Lofgren B is the highest on the inner grooves but there shouldn’t be any problem with any of them if properly set up.
-Second culprit is improper zenith alignment or anti-skating, azimuth or even SRA.
-Another possible problem area could be worn out lateral bearings of the tonearm.
-Deterioration of cartridge suspension or diamond or even the stylus shape can be a problem (shibata is very sensitive to alignment and can be very sibilant).
-Misalignment of any other parameters
-Last but not least small inclination or declination of platter closer to spindle. When you placed the record on platter, record surface should be flat from outer groove to innermost groove or at least should be the same angle throughout. You can check it with a small bubble level. This can only cause high distortion in extreme conditions and impair azimuth more.

Hello murmur, thank you so much for your reply.

-I am using bearwald curve for both of my arms
-For stereo, I have ran the setup through audiomagik and so far the stats had been great. For mono, audiomagik is not available so I tried my best to have them aligned and have the antiquating set to the appropriate level
-For the 3012R, how do I inspect the lateral bearing? For the another arm 4point, it is a new arm.
-I have both the Kleos and Infinity from new and they are only couple of months old.
-I have the vacuum function available on my turntable, so the surface is gonna be flat most of the time.

The observation ( stereo setup ) is that I have a few new repressed blue note ( like 20 of them ), they all plays fine right to a couple of mm away from the record labels. And I dont hear audible sound deterioration as the tone arm move from the outer grove to the inner grove. But when I play some of the 58-62 pressing of DECCA/living stereo/columbia ( mostly orchestras with big dynamics ), the inner grove has significant more distortion than the outer ring. Is it possible that Jazz music is less likely to cause the distorsion or is just the vinyls that I have ( orchestras ) are in bad conditions? but the outer ring plays fine and sounds great also.

Really thank everyone for contributing. I have been trying to find the answers for a long time on the internet and everyone has a different saying.

 

Is it possible that Jazz music is less likely to cause the distorsion or is just the vinyls that I have ( orchestras ) are in bad conditions? but the outer ring plays fine and sounds great also.

Classic music has more dynamic swings than jazz in general. Maybe you were experiencing distortion on highly modulated grooves such as crescendos of classic music. Unfortunately they're usually located close to the end of the record. Tacet pressed some records playing from innermost groove to outermost in order to deal with this issue but there shouldn't be any problem with regular records. DECCA/Living Stereo/Columbia original pressings are great pressings and there shouldn't be a problem with them either.
IMHO the cause of the problem lays on your cartridge or tonearm. it's a possibility that the cartridge is facing difficulties on playing highly modulated grooves.

-For the 3012R, how do I inspect the lateral bearing? For the another arm 4point, it is a new arm.

IMHO a proper inspection can only be done at SME UK but there is one thing you can check by yourself.
-Since you have Analogmagik, play anti-skating track which is located close to the label
-if you have AP test record play anti-skating track of that one too which is the first track
-if distortion levels on both anti-skating tracks are lower than %1 and both channels numbers fall in 0.2-0.3 difference from each other than it's a high possibility that the tonearm's lateral bearings are ok. Cause those anti-skating tracks are highly modulated, one is at the beginning and the other is at the end. it's really hard for a worn out bearing to keep distortion levels lower than %1.

*** But if the distortion numbers are higher than %1 on one or both anti-skating tracks that doesn't mean anything wrong with the bearings, tonearm or cartridge at all. Please keep in mind that Analogmagik is not designed for this purpose. if everything is in order it can confirm.

-Finally play the resonance track of AM test Lp and if it plays without skipping with a resonance peak between 8-12Hz than it's ok. but if it skips, can not finish the track, extreme frequency and level jumps than there may be a problem with your cartridge's suspension or tonearm's bearings. Again existence of those issues may relate to other than perfect alignment and does not confirm that your cartridge and/or tonearm has any defects. it just gives you a hint.

***Those are the things what I do when using AM and are not the absolute facts. I have no affiliation with AM or other company so my comments are based on my experiences using AM software. Owner of the software can approve or disapprove my comments and can share more comprehensive explanation.

 

Classic music has more dynamic swings than jazz in general. Maybe you were experiencing distortion on highly modulated grooves such as crescendos of classic music. Unfortunately they're usually located close to the end of the record. Tacet pressed some records playing from innermost groove to outermost in order to deal with this issue but there shouldn't be any problem with regular records. DECCA/Living Stereo/Columbia original pressings are great pressings and there shouldn't be a problem with them either.
IMHO the cause of the problem lays on your cartridge or tonearm. it's a possibility that the cartridge is facing difficulties on playing highly modulated grooves.


IMHO a proper inspection can only be done at SME UK but there is one thing you can check by yourself.
-Since you have Analogmagik, play anti-skating track which is located close to the label
-if you have AP test record play anti-skating track of that one too which is the first track
-if distortion levels on both anti-skating tracks are lower than %1 and both channels numbers fall in 0.2-0.3 difference from each other than it's a high possibility that the tonearm's lateral bearings are ok. Cause those anti-skating tracks are highly modulated, one is at the beginning and the other is at the end. it's really hard for a worn out bearing to keep distortion levels lower than %1.

*** But if the distortion numbers are higher than %1 on one or both anti-skating tracks that doesn't mean anything wrong with the bearings, tonearm or cartridge at all. Please keep in mind that Analogmagik is not designed for this purpose. if everything is in order it can confirm.

-Finally play the resonance track of AM test Lp and if it plays without skipping with a resonance peak between 8-12Hz than it's ok. but if it skips, can not finish the track, extreme frequency and level jumps than there may be a problem with your cartridge's suspension or tonearm's bearings. Again existence of those issues may relate to other than perfect alignment and does not confirm that your cartridge and/or tonearm has any defects. it just gives you a hint.

Thank you for your help =]

That's why I was thinking it may be those old records had a hard life and were damaged over the years. Is that possible? Cos I think I do have some without problems?

I have bought the HiFi News test LP and will give it a go this weekend. Will keep you guys updated my findings!

Attached is the image of the antiquating test result.

Of course it can be caused by my setup being off. but I think I have got it quite close at least close enough I think for a reasonable playback.

 

Thank you for your help =]

That's why I was thinking it may be those old records had a hard life and were damaged over the years. Is that possible? Cos I think I do have some without problems?

I have bought the HiFi News test LP and will give it a go this weekend. Will keep you guys updated my findings!

Attached is the image of the antiquating test result.

Of course it can be caused by my setup being off. but I think I have got it quite close at least close enough I think for a reasonable playback.

View attachment 95841

You’re welcome.

Of course distortion can happen due to worn out records. It’s a possibility to consider.

By the when I said distortion figures should not exceed %1 I meant at the end of anti-skating tracks. %0.2-0.3 is very impressive.

 

You’re welcome.

Of course distortion can happen due to worn out records. It’s a possibility to consider.

By the when I said distortion figures should not exceed %1 I meant at the end of anti-skating tracks. %0.2-0.3 is very impressive.

I am confused. As the outer tracks plays fine and just the inner tracks which are distorted. But what are the causes? bad turntable antiquating settings or just terrible stylus with low compliance ( particular challenging as the linear resolution is limited ? )

Yes. Thats the track 6 of the audiomagik test.

 

Inner tracks distorted for all records is a bit weird. Is it possible the tonearm movement is restricted mechanically? ( maybe even the lift mechanism contacting? ) Meanwhile I have often come across old classical records with distortion on dynamic sections. I surmise this came from being played on poor equipment too often...

 

Yes. Thats the track 6 of the audiomagik test.

Check the distortion figures at the end of the anti-skating track. When the track finishes.
Also do the same thing with AP test record.

 

Inner tracks distorted for all records is a bit weird. Is it possible the tonearm movement is restricted mechanically? ( maybe even the lift mechanism contacting? ) Meanwhile I have often come across old classical records with distortion on dynamic sections. I surmise this came from being played on poor equipment too often...

Not all actually. For new records and repress, they all seemed to be fine. And for dynamic sections, non inner track are mostly ok too.

 

Check the distortion figures at the end of the anti-skating track. When the track finishes.
Also do the same thing with AP test record.

Roger. Will post the results after the weekend.

 

Check the distortion figures at the end of the anti-skating track. When the track finishes.
Also do the same thing with AP test record.

Hi all! This is the last 2-3 ring of the AudioMagjik

With the Hifi News Test LP.

I have a bit of distortion on both channel only at +18 DB of the last track of the test record. Is that normal?

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

View attachment 95949
Hi all! This is the last 2-3 ring of the AudioMagjik

With the Hifi News Test LP.

I have a bit of distortion on both channel only at +18 DB of the last track of the test record. Is that normal?

Thanks for everyone's help.

That’s incredibly good result in my book and a bit of distortion on +18dB is perfectly alright. Probably there is nothing wrong with your tonearm and cartridge. Maybe the whole issue is due to a couple of highly worn out records.

 

I tried hard to be different. Went through a bunch of arms and then ended up buying back a near NOS 3012R earlier this week that I sold a month ago and I think I'm finally done! Well, for awhile

It loves all three cartridges I use: this SPU TE, my SL-15 and an AnaMighty rebuild Sculpture A.4

 

Which other tonearms did you directly compare it to?

 

Which other tonearms did you directly compare it to?

Bokrand AB309, GrooveMaster III, Schröder CB/L, Kuzma 4Point (but only for a day because I had an aesthetic problem with it. It definitely didn't sound better though).

But I'm going to say this, honestly: I'm not great at setting up tonearms, I don't think, and maybe that's part of the issue with the other arms? I use the Feickert but I doubt I'm nailing the setup. SME is so easy.

 

I tried hard to be different. Went through a bunch of arms and then ended up buying back a near NOS 3012R earlier this week that I sold a month ago and I think I'm finally done! Well, for awhile

It loves all three cartridges I use: this SPU TE, my SL-15 and an AnaMighty rebuild Sculpture A.4

View attachment 102862

With those cartridges, that arm and table, the Lamm electronics and those incredible Mitsubishi Diatone speakers, you have one heck of a system there. You must love listening to your music on that system.

 

Bokrand AB309, GrooveMaster III, Schröder CB/L, Kuzma 4Point (but only for a day because I had an aesthetic problem with it. It definitely didn't sound better though).

But I'm going to say this, honestly: I'm not great at setting up tonearms, I don't think, and maybe that's part of the issue with the other arms? I use the Feickert but I doubt I'm nailing the setup. SME is so easy.

Thank you.

 

With those cartridges, that arm and table, the Lamm electronics and those incredible Mitsubishi Diatone speakers, you have one heck of a system there. You must love listening to your music on that system.

I have to say that I've never been as happy and content with listening. I've truly stopped evaluating and I'm just able to listen to music. I never even think about how it sounds anymore, if that makes sense? It all just sounds lovely. Now I'm just buying LPs like crazy. LA has some incredible record stores.... shops with a point of view and really good taste.

 

I have to say that I've never been as happy and content with listening. I've truly stopped evaluating and I'm just able to listen to music. I never even think about how it sounds anymore, if that makes sense? It all just sounds lovely. Now I'm just buying LPs like crazy. LA has some incredible record stores.... shops with a point of view and really good taste.

It makes sense. There is that point where it just switches and your analytical side just wants to rest. I suspect for musicians they have trouble turning it on, and we need the right stereo to turn it off.

 

I do have a 3012 question: Is it possible to lower the armrest/cueing collar? I prefer it if the arm doesn't travel as far to cue up and down. I've undone the set screw but that only seems to allow it to move horizontally, not vertically.