Sometimes it pays to experiment.
- Thread starter DaveyF
- Start date
That's a good question. In my instance, after a significant up grade of my front end, a change in speaker position was beneficial. Please remember that changing speaker positioning is
easy and one can always go back to the prior position...so experimentation is warranted, IMO.
Easy is a relative word. It depends on your speaker size. Large 650lb. Per channel speakers are not easy to reposition.
ive noticed owners of mammoth sized speakers more often than not keep them on casters. if I did I would.
I see where you are coming from. That said, spiking them or adding Ultra 5s makes a BIG difference, and it seems a shame to go thru all the cost and braindamage...not to set them up optimally. Yes, not practical (as many of us have been reminded by our wives)...but totally worth it when set up just so!
Mine have been spiked. I can always adjust my seat location to compensate for anomalies or adjust the the mid and or tweeter units for longer term issues.
that's the question of the day: does the benefit of spiking the speaker more than offset the ability to reposition at will to maximize performance - I would add, for those that enjoy more than one type of speaker in the same listening room casters are obligatory.
there's a product idea for someone, audiophile approved casters that provide similar attributes of floor spikes.
You're supposed to find the Goldilocks spot while the speakers are on casters and then spike them to the floor unless you are neurotic and can't stop trying new locations that are 1/64" in all directions from where you originally landed them after spending 6 months finding just the right spot.
there are as many opinions on coupling speakers to the floor as their are speaker designers. the one and only speaker I owned that came with casters instead of spikes were sound labs. Roger didn't believe casters were a tradeoff vis a vis spikes. I tried spiking them and tend to agree, then again I harbor many unpopular beliefs that would have me tarred and feathered by the 'cognoscenti' on WBF
They don't sound nearly as good than when the speakers are on spikes or better yet, Stillpoints.
You could put $5 Home Depot vinyl furniture sliders under the Stillpoints and perhaps get mobility and energy drainage at the same time. Probably better than casters, though slightly more difficult to slide around.
While it may not be that 'easy' to move gargantuan speakers that require a fork lift in order to move; I think it can still pay dividends IF upstream gear has changed wherein the system SQ would benefit from such a move.
BTW, anyone getting audio nervosa right about now, LOL.
BTW, anyone getting audio nervosa right about now, LOL.
Davey and Gary! - So I turned my G7.1's in by ¾" from a former straight-fire position. They are 6'8" apart measured from their centers, and I sit back 8'6". My initial impressions are that the centrestage has tightened up (narrower, more focused), and has also become clearer (not as muddy or thick). I haven't listened enough yet to notice much change in the overall width of the presentation, but a word and vision came to mind.....bloom. As I was listening to The Rain Song by LZ I could almost visualize the speaker as a tree with branches extending and leaves growing into maturity. The musical presentation had the appearance of sounding more natural and easier to listen to, if I can say that.
I'll keep them like this for the next while as I play more of a variety of music. So far I have about 8 hours of listening in with this configuration.
I'll keep them like this for the next while as I play more of a variety of music. So far I have about 8 hours of listening in with this configuration.
John, you may want to tilt them in more than 3/4". I would suggest trying an angle that is between 30 and 45 degrees from the straight ahead position. The tweeter should be firing to just outside your ear. I would suspect that 3/4" isn't enough. However, do mark each position before you modify ( I use blue tape), this way you can easily go back if you don't like the result.
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
John, since you have the rear tweeters off, my usual recommendation of never toe-ing in doesn't apply as they are no longer dipoles.
You will only know that you are making improvements if you know that the music you are evaluating the changes with do not have a center image that is muddy and thick to begin with. If you gain focus on a recording that already has a thick center image, you may end up with a pinched center image with a recording that has already a good center image.
The wavelength of sound where I cross over the tweeters is about 4". If toe-in the speakers by 3/4", a laser pointed at the listening position will be deflected more than 4", so the increments of toe you make at the speakers should be finer than 3/4". Another thing to do is to move the speakers closer together/further apart.
Because the dispersion of the tweeter at 18kHz is the same as the dispersion of the mid/bass at 3000Hz, the G7f's will behave very different from Davey's Guarneri Homage.
You will only know that you are making improvements if you know that the music you are evaluating the changes with do not have a center image that is muddy and thick to begin with. If you gain focus on a recording that already has a thick center image, you may end up with a pinched center image with a recording that has already a good center image.
The wavelength of sound where I cross over the tweeters is about 4". If toe-in the speakers by 3/4", a laser pointed at the listening position will be deflected more than 4", so the increments of toe you make at the speakers should be finer than 3/4". Another thing to do is to move the speakers closer together/further apart.
Because the dispersion of the tweeter at 18kHz is the same as the dispersion of the mid/bass at 3000Hz, the G7f's will behave very different from Davey's Guarneri Homage.
While I agree it may not be enough, it's only a starting point. I'm gonna leave it for about a week as I normally get in a good 20 hours of listening during a bad week, and then reduce the angle by another ¾" or so.
Interesting about the wavelength x-over of the tweets. Using a laser is a great way to determine where the firing line is. I think a laser is almost a must use tool in speaker set up; I have always found it extremely useful in my system. BTW John, as Gary is correctly stating, my GH's are a different design than your speakers, so my suggestions may not apply to you. Nonetheless, as this thread states, I think experimentation never hurts...so long as you can easily go back to what you had before.
I just saw your post Gary after I replied to Davey.
I'm embarrassed, but you kind of lost me with some of the things you mentioned. I'm using a variety of recordings as I play a variety of music, so I want the end result to be what is best overall. Some of those recordings could have poor center image and some could be bang on. So a line needs to be drawn, no?
I'm not sure why a laser works any better than sighting along a yardstick or similar, but I know how some people like high tech
Over the past 6 mos I've had my speakers in several different positions with variable amounts of toe-in; I must admit I have a pretty hard time determining an absolute preference for any one combination of toe-in and positioning. All sound somewhat different, several are very pleasing.
Over the past 6 mos I've had my speakers in several different positions with variable amounts of toe-in; I must admit I have a pretty hard time determining an absolute preference for any one combination of toe-in and positioning. All sound somewhat different, several are very pleasing.
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