Sometimes it pays to experiment.

[DaveyF]

Excellent post. This has happened to me in a couple of instances, so I know exactly what you mean.

Thanks, Peter. I think this is an easy trap that many a'philes fall into. Luckily, in my instance, it was easy to remedy and there was no monetary cost involved.

 

[garylkoh]

I do have the new settings saved...tape works great for this.

The new setting had the speakers toed in.
The current set-up is with no toe-in. This is how I had set the system up originally...and how I am now listening again.

Jack, I thought I was going easy on show exhibitors, LOL

Glad that you are sharing your experience. On your Guarneri Homage, there are advantages to toe-in and no toe-in, as you have discovered. You should experiment with camber as well as toe. Try raising the front of the speaker by up to 2 deg as well as raising the back of the speaker again by up to 2 deg. There are fascinating trade-offs with little increments in speaker orientations.

 

[Ronm1]

I find this thread a little strange, as this is all IMHO, basic audio 101 with setup in a new room or new h/w.

 

[rbbert]

I find this thread a little strange, as this is all IMHO, basic audio 101 with setup in a new room or new h/w.

In some ways this is true; OTOH, there is a part of the high-end industry consisting of "room tuners". Some, like Jim Smith, sell only their time and expertise. Others, like GIK, ASC, etc. sell both products and expertise. I'm sure there are other places on the spectrum where some people make a living. Many of us who are not still consider ourselves experts

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I find this thread a little strange, as this is all IMHO, basic audio 101 with setup in a new room or new h/w.

Yes and no, but all rooms are different so experimentation is a smart thing to undertake. I don't see it as a big deal since you have nothing to lose and can always go back.

 

[rbbert]

Back (mostly) to the original topic, I think how much toe-in is likely to make a big difference depends largely on the radiation pattern of your speakers and the amount and type of acoustic treatments in your room, particularly at the sidewall first reflection points. I suspect that (in general) speakers with wide, even horizontal radiation (e.g. d'Appolito, line source) will benefit least from very much toe-in (not necesarily that you won't hear the effects of more toe-in, just that they will be quickly noticeable as detrimental to the overall sound).

 

[Ronm1]

In some ways this is true; OTOH, there is a part of the high-end industry consisting of "room tuners". Some, like Jim Smith, sell only their time and expertise. Others, like GIK, ASC, etc. sell both products and expertise. I'm sure there are other places on the spectrum where some people make a living. Many of us who are not still consider ourselves experts

It has nothing to do with being an expert, just audio Common Sense. Reminds me of my audio buds who just throw money at their system but never take advantage of it. Then wonder why my frugal h/w(though wise choices,IMO)sounds superior. This is not rocket science for the most part, IMHO. There certainly is nothing wrong with experimentation. IMO experimentation is not what I would consider basics and I'm certainly not an expert. Certainly my take on the thread is not calling in a specialist to toe in/out or camber as to whether sounstage or imaging improves, highs not so grating or attenuated at sweet spot, etc. Course if you need a chainfall and tripod maybe one should.

 

[McIntosh]

I'm curious how people with 100+kg speakers adjust their positions.

I take off the feet/spikes and put those little furniture moving "sliders" under them

 

[DaveyF]

Glad that you are sharing your experience. On your Guarneri Homage, there are advantages to toe-in and no toe-in, as you have discovered. You should experiment with camber as well as toe. Try raising the front of the speaker by up to 2 deg as well as raising the back of the speaker again by up to 2 deg. There are fascinating trade-offs with little increments in speaker orientations.

Thanks, that's a good suggestion Gary. One thing that is evident IME, and that is that every speaker will sound slightly different based on the room it finds itself in. In my room, which is acoustically treated, the straight ahead positioning seems to allow the speakers to 'lock in' better than any toe-in. I'm not so sure this would apply with the same speakers in a different room.

Ron, I don' t think this stuff is quite as intuitive as you seem to believe. Which is why it pays to experiment BUT like John said, be able to go back easily to compare.

 

[Ronm1]

BUT like John said, be able to go back easily to compare.

A given