Sonorous ATR10 MMK II
- Thread starter Philip O Hanlon
- Start date
I made a Pioneer RT-707 run *well* at 15ips (also made it 4 channel with a head replacement and two extra preamps). One of the machines in my profile was originally a 7 1/2 / 15 machine and I converted it to 15/30 and it works wonderfully with very, very low wow/flutter. So yes, it can be done. Maybe not to all machines, true, but it can be done and if I were offering uber expensive/high performance tape machines today like in this thread, I would leave off the useless 7 1/2 ips speed (only good for 4 track pre-recorded tapes, and these machines are 2 track).
Really, ALL high end audio is niche and limited production. That hasn't stopped manufacturers from making $100,000 power amps.
Tape users are already a small niche within a high end niche, and you are suggesting adding a yet smaller one to these.
But this is a pointless argument... if you are right then we are going to see some 30ips tapes on the market.
But this is a pointless argument... if you are right then we are going to see some 30ips tapes on the market.
I hope so. But really, I'm just advocating for making these machines capable of 30ips, regardless of the availability of tapes at present. Makes more sense than including 7 1/2 ips. The speed capability won't change the size of the niche.
I personally cannot fathom what is done to a simple Tascam B32 to ramp up the price to USD 32K
I´d take a Studer A80 or an ATR102 or a Telefunken M15 any day...maybe unserviced machine today is reaching USD 10K
still a LOT of cash left to raise it to celestial levels compared to any prosumer deck
I´d take a Studer A80 or an ATR102 or a Telefunken M15 any day...maybe unserviced machine today is reaching USD 10K
still a LOT of cash left to raise it to celestial levels compared to any prosumer deck
Because you have knowledge. Most buyers go by what the salesman tells them.
since I´m not made of money, I need to implement some common sense and a bit of facts
As I am moving soon I will put my still unserviced reserve pair of A80's - after I got them I found better specimen - for sale at a much lower price than that!
If you use 1.5mil tape on a 10.5" reel and record at 30ips, you will only get 16 min of recording time. That would not be enough to fit many classical music movements, which arguably would benefit most from the increase in speed. Therefore, you need to use 12" or even 14" reels. Most of these prosumer machines cannot use any reel larger than 10.5". Even if they will fit, I don't think their transport mechanisms are robust enough to cope with the increased weight of the reels.
[/QUOTE]
OTOH... the diminutive Stellavox with its 5" reels has 30ips speed.
Almost long enough for one song.
But practically speaking, 30ips is a huge nuisance for a typical home music lover.
Exactly right, I recently played one piece - three movements, almost 9 minutes each - try to handle that one with 10.5" reels at 30ips. So leave the big game for big boys.
OTOH... the diminutive Stellavox with its 5" reels has 30ips speed.
Almost long enough for one song. But practically speaking, 30ips is a huge nuisance for a typical home music lover.
30 ips is not only benefits - in fact the choice of 15 ips or 30 ips is a balance of compromises and benefits. 30 ips has a faster bass roll off than 15 ips. We debated it in WBF some years ago - see https://www.endino.com/graphs/ the blue line represents what came back at 15 IPS, the red line at 30 IPS - or https://www.tangible-technology.com/media/media_2.html.
Unfortunately, frequency response plots tell you close to nothing about the system's sound quality. People simply talk about them because they are so easy to obtain - like looking for your lost keys under the street light, not where you lost them. Plus I would never consider the red line in your example bad. The most important attributes of sound quality are not describable by numbers or plots.
1 mil tape like LPR-35 would give 22 minutes at 30 ips - about the same as vinyl. 45RPM vinyl sets deal with the time limitation so it's not as if it can't be done. To me, the increase in sound quality is obvious and compelling. And there's always the sight of reels spinning at twice the speed which adds it's own element. I just don't understand the resistance to it in the context of high end audio striving for the absolute best, regardless of cost and 'impracticality'. Next to some of the monster turntable setups I see, a 30 ips tape machine is child's play. High end audio is all about the impractical!
i don't use 1mil tape so I don't know how well this will work. Will there be any problem with stretch if 1 mil tape is use at 30 ips ? I doubt many professionals, the prime users of 30ips, would use 1 mil tape for their work.
30 ips has no real physical demands on the tape beyond other speeds. With LPR 35, the coating is the same thickness as the 1.5 mil version, but the backing is 1 mil instead. Because of the thinner backing, print through can be more of an issue, but I've never found that in actual listening the print through is any worse than with 1.5 mil tape. With either tape, storing it in the tails-out state minimizes print through.
Professional studios doing popular music don't necessarily rely on 'long' playing time. Most of the time, 16 minutes is enough to record several takes of a song. The famous Sun Studios used 7" reels for this reason. Professionals recording longer works will likely be using machines which can accommodate 14" reels. In all my years as a recording engineer, I used many 30ips machines which used 10 1/2" reels and never felt there was any problem. Besides, have you ever lifted a 14" reel of 2" tape?
1 mil tape is a popular archive medium.
Similar threads
