Soon to come, hORNS Universum mk4!

[byrdparis]

Colour choice is often the biggest decision! I'm about to order Avantgarde Duo XD speakers, but what colour horns should I go for? My existing old Duos are pearl white horns with matt black subs. I'm inclined to go for the same colours as it will suit any house decorations scheme and have best resale price. Trouble is, after spending so much dosh, it'd be nice to see the difference as well as hear it!

I'm sure you'll enjoy your hORNS when they arrive

Thank you! I'm sure hope for.

And you right, sometimes the esthetics got more of our time and attention then the picking the speaker itself (maybe there we know what we want from the get go). Figuring the color and design is something we need to think how it will affect our venues, wife, house decoration, resale etc.

 

[Hear Here]

I'm sure you are impatiently waiting for your new speakers to arrive. I've never seen or heard the Universums, nor I have I found a review, but they look interesting in photos.

I'm about to order new horn speakers to replace my 2006 Avantgarde Duos. I've just about decided on Duo XDs but I'd be interested in the Universums as a possible alternative. I've not found any price where I've looked online. 6moons has a confusing price of £9000 above pictures of the Universum, but I think this is the price of the FP15 from hORNS. Apart from that, the only price I've seen is €26000 which seems more likely. This puts it as a competitor to the AG Duo XD.

I'm sure you'll let us know how your new speakers sound when they arrive. Have fun. Peter

 

[byrdparis]

I'm sure you are impatiently waiting for your new speakers to arrive. I've never seen or heard the Universums, nor I have I found a review, but they look interesting in photos.

I'm about to order new horn speakers to replace my 2006 Avantgarde Duos. I've just about decided on Duo XDs but I'd be interested in the Universums as a possible alternative. I've not found any price where I've looked online. 6moons has a confusing price of £9000 above pictures of the Universum, but I think this is the price of the FP15 from hORNS. Apart from that, the only price I've seen is €26000 which seems more likely. This puts it as a competitor to the AG Duo XD.

I'm sure you'll let us know how your new speakers sound when they arrive. Have fun. Peter

i am impatient, but holding on, after all, i have a decent system to listen to music
(even though ked don't like Magico, i think they are among of the best there is, but that just me....).

the Universum MK4 are 34,000eu MSRP .
they came a long way with a lot of upgrades over the years...hORNS changed everything about it from 2011 till now...i guess the mk3 were the sweet spot for the company regarding levelling its abilities thru the years.

i know the duos very very well. a close friend of mine had them for two years plus.
i listen to it with 6 or more amps and sources over the years and i was like them fine when i visited..
my friend actually sold them (years ago) because he were not able to get passed the lack of bass integration and its forward dynamics for a long listening sessions. he just gave up after a long run with them....
the XD i heard ( i think) only one time at Munich. i think duos with bass horns will be a lot better then the "regular" ones.

my choice of the Unis actually based on 3-4 times i listen to them in shows, talking and investigate about them with PPL that heard or purchase them (like Ked, christoph and Shakti..) and a large percent of craziness
i just hope i did the right choice for me, I've never had a horn speaker before. only cons.

 

[Hear Here]

> i just hope i did the right choice for me, I've never had a horn speaker before. only cones.

I'm sure you'll not regret moving to horns. Last year, when my AG Unos were 16 years old, I decided to move to electrostatics after listening to (and for a short time owning) Quad 2905s and listening to Martin Logans at showrooms. I bought ML 13As but was very disappointed when I installed them at home. My old Unos sounded appreciably better (agreed by all who listened including a friend with Quads), although probably largely as horns suit my room better than electrostatics.

I decided to sell my unused 13As and then I found a good pair of slightly younger Duos. I plan to change these for the current Duo XD or Mezzo XD very soon.

 

[BruceD]

I'm about to order new horn speakers to replace my 2006 Avantgarde Duos. I've just about decided on Duo XDs but I'd be interested in the Universums as a possible alternative. I've not found any price where I've looked online. 6moons has a confusing price of £9000 above pictures of the Universum, but I think this is the price of the FP15 from hORNS. Apart from that, the only price I've seen is €26000 which seems more likely. This puts it as a competitor to the AG Duo XD.

I'm sure you'll let us know how your new speakers sound when they arrive. Have fun. Peter

This maybe a premature observation--I've heard Avantgardes since they first appeared and have always had mixed opinions -
some great some not so. The fact that Flea power is manageable is good plus and they can be dynamic -also very good.
I have a friend with the Duos and he uses the Trafomatic(?) Amp and while it sounds excellent
-- it's 'forwardness" in presentation is tad fatiguing for Moi!

The Duos do deserve consideration and after all the decision is yours alone.

However the dilemma in my mind is after listening to Ked's vid's on my B+W P9's with strikingly similar music to my friends Duos
I would say the Universums are far sonically superior over fuller spectrum of the sonics--the blending was superb--something I feel the Avantgardes
always seem to fail--IMHO only!

Good luck with your decision .

BruceD

 

[bonzo75]

This maybe a premature observation--I've heard Avantgardes since they first appeared and have always had mixed opinions -
some great some not so. The fact that Flea power is manageable is good plus and they can be dynamic -also very good.
I have a friend with the Duos and he uses the Trafomatic(?) Amp and while it sounds excellent
-- it's 'forwardness" in presentation is tad fatiguing for Moi!

The Duos do deserve consideration and after all the decision is yours alone.

However the dilemma in my mind is after listening to Ked's vid's on my B+W P9's with strikingly similar music to my friends Duos
I would say the Universums are far sonically superior over fuller spectrum of the sonics--the blending was superb--something I feel the Avantgardes
always seem to fail--IMHO only!

Good luck with your decision .

BruceD

Hi Bruce, your conclusion based on the videos is spot on.

 

[byrdparis]

those videos that Ked posted are very good, he actually send them to me a couple of weeks ago before we get down to business, and they probably the closes thing i got for real life demo to make a decision getting the UNIS! (except what i could remember from shows years ago)
those 3 clips are also (i dont know if Ked knew) very much my own choice of music. i wish i could hear some piano on them before i ordered but i was appreciates with what ked send!

maybe christoph could play some classical piano and get us 2 minutes with his system!

 

[Zero000]

You might enjoy this thread byrdparis.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...4&share_fid=4177&share_type=t&link_source=app

Duo XD or Universums? Hm. I'd go Duo XD personally as I need solid bass performance and bottom end dynamics for the kind of music I like despite integration issues.

Still I did l like the Universums.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . Duo XD or Universums? Hm. I'd go Duo or XD personally as I need solid bass performance and bottom end dynamics for the kind of music I like despite integration issues.

Still I did l like the Universums.

Couldn't you graft a subwoofer system onto the Universums? Sacrilegious, perhaps; but fun, no?

 

[Zero000]

Couldn't you graft a subwoofer system onto the Universums? Sacrilegious, perhaps; but fun, no?

Maybe but I'd wire it in at as high a frequency as possible and relieve the bass horn in the Universum to try and maximise bass power and dynamics.

But why bother if you want to do that get the Avantgardes. They will have spent massive amounts of effort trying to blend the dynamic drivers with the horns. Trying to get some random woofer to blend as well with the Universum as the AGs horns do with their dynamic drivers unlikely to achieve as successful a result I reckon.

 

[bonzo75]

Couldn't you graft a subwoofer system onto the Universums? Sacrilegious, perhaps; but fun, no?

If you wanted that you would get trios. The unis have a much better mids and highs though, and yes it is possible to blend a horn loaded sub into them but that would either be DIY, or it would be a special request to Lukasz (the designer) to create a bass horn. It is quite easy to build horn loaded subs, it is that they require more size and cost so change commercial aspects somewhat. Just look at duos and trios for example. Same company, entirely different size and price, so different considerations if someone wants to buy. The universum WAF and ability to blend into medium size rooms will change with a bass horn, as will the price

 

[bonzo75]

Couldn't you graft a subwoofer system onto the Universums? Sacrilegious, perhaps; but fun, no?

The universum mids and highs are very similar to Tang's, both are beryllium diaphragm drivers. There is a difference in size, but otherwise in terms of transparency, neutrality, resolution, highs, air, staging, they have very similar sonic signatures. Below the mids you could have any integration, my ideal will of course be a dual woofer FLH. In fact they could integrate quite well at a similar crossover with the Altec FLH or Leif like FLH, extending to bass horn below

 

[marslo]

Well, I will have Universum Mk IV at home for the listening session soon.
Before I have heard previous iterations of Universum during many shows, in Warsaw and Munich.
Moreover, I used Duo Omega G2 for 6 years and then moved to Duo Mezzo XD since 4 years.
When I decided to upgrade my AG’s only Universum III without berylium drivers were offered and I considered them less interesting than AG’s.
I agree that new berylium drivers are a significant leap forward and I want to give them a chance during home listening session.
I also agree that berylium drivers are more advanced than within AG’s Duo XD series.
What I disagree is that Universum are better, they are different.
If someone is more attracted by high range ( mainly younger audiophiles for obvious reasons) then he would prefer Unis.
But their bass reproduction is inferior to what Duo XD may offer, especially Duo Mezzo XD with their short basshorn and advanced DSP.
The bass of Universum is not deep enough , is also less articulated and have less punch.
If you listen to violin concertos then Unis have the egde, but put organ music or Rachmininoff Symphonic Dances or any complex orchestral music and Duo Mezzo XD winns hands down.
The review of Unis by German magazine shows bass at 55 Hz with -6 dB, unless it’s a wrong measurement.
I think Universum require a separate subwoofers to really excel against Duo Mezzo XD.
I will know better after the listening session at home.

 

[Zero000]

Well, I will have Universum Mk IV at home for the listening session soon.
Before I have heard previous iterations of Universum during many shows, in Warsaw and Munich.
Moreover, I used Duo Omega G2 for 6 years and then moved to Duo Mezzo XD since 4 years.
When I decided to upgrade my AG’s only Universum III without berylium drivers were offered and I considered them less interesting than AG’s.
I agree that new berylium drivers are a significant leap forward and I want to give them a chance during home listening session.
I also agree that berylium drivers are more advanced than within AG’s Duo XD series.
What I disagree is that Universum are better, they are different.
If someone is more attracted by high range ( mainly younger audiophiles for obvious reasons) then he would prefer Unis.
But their bass reproduction is inferior to what Duo XD may offer, especially Duo Mezzo XD with their short basshorn and advanced DSP.
The bass of Universum is not deep enough , is also less articulated and have less punch.
If you listen to violin concertos then Unis have the egde, but put organ music or Rachmininoff Symphonic Dances or any complex orchestral music and Duo Mezzo XD winns hands down.
The review of Unis by German magazine shows bass at 55 Hz with -6 dB, unless it’s a wrong measurement.
I think Universum require a separate subwoofers to really excel against Duo Mezzo XD.
I will know better after the listening session at home.

Good post.

 

[christoph]

Well, I will have Universum Mk IV at home for the listening session soon.
[...]
I will know better after the listening session at home.

I'm really curious about your findings.
Please let us know what you think.

 

[shakti]

Couldn't you graft a subwoofer system onto the Universums? Sacrilegious, perhaps; but fun, no?

You may remember, that I was able to integrate the Velodyne 1812 to my Uni set up. This subwoofer (below 60hz ) has helped a lot to give me the bass I was used to. The integration was more easy, than thought before. My visitors mostly did not realized, that a subwoofer is working at all. Currently I am listening to Maxx3 and I was unable to get the Velodyne 1812 working with the Wilson speakers. It was much better with the Uni speakers.

To my knowledge, Lukas has built a Horns Universum system in Istanbul with double Bass array, so at least a 4 "Tower" Universum system.

 

[christoph]

To my knowledge, Lukas has built a Horns Universum system in Istanbul with double Bass array, so at least a 4 "Tower" Universum system.

That sounds interesting.
How does that look? Two of the horn shaped bass sections per side?
That must be very space consuming...

 

[Hear Here]

If you wanted that you would get trios. The unis have a much better mids and highs though, and yes it is possible to blend a horn loaded sub into them but that would either be DIY, or it would be a special request to Lukasz (the designer) to create a bass horn. It is quite easy to build horn loaded subs, it is that they require more size and cost so change commercial aspects somewhat. Just look at duos and trios for example. Same company, entirely different size and price, so different considerations if someone wants to buy. The universum WAF and ability to blend into medium size rooms will change with a bass horn, as will the price

I just don't agree with you about Trios. The Trio is the only one of the 3 original ranges designed by AG that has enjoyed only marginal improvements. Granted it has new drivers (as have the Unos and Duos), but it's still flawed in that the horns are not vertically aligned. The Uno and Duo ranges have enjoyed massive changes over the last 20 years, but not the Trio. These sell in much larger volumes, so the company is obviously prioritises improvements to these models than the very slow selling Trio. Hopefully they'll take a look at more radical improvements to the Trio in due course, but in the meanwhile, this range is dropping further and further behind its siblings. In particular the Mezzo XD is now probably the best that AG offers - excluding the pig-ugly Primo!

 

[shakti]

That sounds interesting.
How does that look? Two of the horn shaped bass sections per side?
That must be very space consuming...

it is very space consuming, Lukasz showed me pictures.
The construction is just doubling the Bass enclosure in a separate metal rack

 

[christoph]

it is very space consuming, Lukasz showed me pictures.
The construction is just doubling the Bass enclosure in a separate metal rack

So that the double bass horns "clam" the mid- and tweeter horns?