State-of-the-Art Digital

[jespera]

Let me break it down for you.

Good sound from CD: buy a marantz cd 94. You want better? Stick a better DAC on it. (you will have to look hard though).

Good sound from LP: buy a lenco, garrard, td124, with decent arm and pick-up and phono stage. You want better?
Buy a good valve phono stage or a better arm or cartridge. Theres plenty of them.

Good sound from computer: ... hmm ... I actually dont know. And I think you'll have to look very long and hard and spend
copiously to get anywhere close to the marantz.

IMUHO

Jesper

 

[jespera]

If that's your opinion, fine. I just want you to know that it differs greatly from most people's.
I'm sorry I even entered this topic...

oh you must be right then ...

 

[JackD201]

So who is winning the high piss contest? LOL

 

[Al M.]

... and off we go with all the computers, servers, switch boxes, power supplies, renderers, fibers, roon versions, melaki and voodoo that
people use in attempt to get computer audio to sound good ...

Digital audio brings equipment fiddling to a new level. Just my few cents.

Actually, I agree with you, in the sense that it is very hard and expensive to get computer audio to sound good. However, you can. In fact, the best playback of a string quartet recording -- regardless if digital or analog -- that I have ever heard was recently in a system playing a 16/44.1 file.

Yet it took years of fiddling to get digital file playback to sound so good in that system (and now it does involve a dCS network bridge, which only started to sound really good after the most recent upgrade). A few years ago my Simaudio 260 DT CD transport still beat the server there in a direct shootout (lack of grain, separation of instruments), now not anymore.

If I ever were to get into computer audio (Hell, I won't), I would start with a very expensive pre-made server (Baetis, Innuos, Taiko Audio or the like) -- it takes lots of time, effort and plain drama, all of which I am absolutely not interested in, to get DIY computer audio right. If I stream, I do so from YouTube, and if I like the music, I buy the CD.

 

[Folsom]

Hi Ron,

If you are considering investing into a MSB DAC, and if your listening room is still in a constructive stage, I would suggest to have fiber installed from your listening room to your office. That gives you the option to use the MSB Pro USB module with your office computer which can run Roon software, that will perform very acceptable already. If at any point in the future you would feel the need to upgrade your source, it could sit in your office then as well saving rack space in your listening room. You can also have copper networking installed to give you more options, like using the MSB renderer. At any rate, both copper and fiber will be a very minor investment, you can spend more on a decent lunch.

Makes sense, but Ron might still be locating all the electronics outside of the listening room... so it'd have to be the adjacent room.

 

[Elliot G.]

Having spent a lot of time with MSB Select 2, The dCS Scarlatti stack and with the CH Precision C1 Mono with X-1's and T1- clock and having heard the MSB with and without a Preamplifier I truly believe that the MSB with a the right preamp is better than direct. I have spent a lot of time listening to the MSB in a system with speakers, cables and electronics that I know very well and in a system that I have set up. I also own all the gear in that system with the exception of the MSB and instead I own the CH C1 mono set up. These are both incredible digital playback systems for both streaming and or media playback. I know I am prejudiced and my answer is predictable but I did write the check for the CH so I guess that influences my final choice. I do believe however I could live happily with either and I am very much looking forward to spending quality time with the Wadax reference gear this spring at Axpona as this sounded very good as well to me last year in Munich. I have heard at length the Total Dac top set up in a clients set up this year and think they do a good job as well however I would not sell either my Ch or my clients MSB for it.

 

[microstrip]

Actually, I agree with you, in the sense that it is very hard and expensive to get computer audio to sound good. However, you can. In fact, the best playback of a string quartet recording -- regardless if digital or analog -- that I have ever heard was recently in a system playing a 16/44.1 file.

Yet it took years of fiddling to get digital file playback to sound so good in that system (and now it does involve a dCS network bridge, which only started to sound really good after the most recent upgrade). A few years ago my Simaudio 260 DT CD transport still beat the server there in a direct shootout (lack of grain, separation of instruments), now not anymore.

If I ever were to get into computer audio (Hell, I won't), I would start with a very expensive pre-made server (Baetis, Innuos, Taiko Audio or the like) -- it takes lots of time, effort and plain drama, all of which I am absolutely not interested in, to get DIY computer audio right. If I stream, I do so from YouTube, and if I like the music, I buy the CD.

Very interesting post Al M., but could be ten times more interesting with a few extra details. Can we know what is the recording being referred and what are the components of such system besides the dCS network bridge? What was the server system?

I have referred that some of the best digital strings in my system was a DG recording - Brahmas Sextet 1 by the Amadeus, Aronowitz and Pleeth. This CD, played in the Forsell transport and DAC, Cello Palette and Duet and Quad ESL63 created an unbelievable realism in my room - although many other recordings did not share it. The real drama in this hobby is that sometimes a recording "enters in tune" with the system and sounds exceptional, and then we want a system that does "it" to all the recordings.

BTW, we should be realistic - if you are now posting in a thread concernig SOTA digital, you will be entering computer audio sooner than you expect ...

 

[jespera]

Actually, I agree with you, in the sense that it is very hard and expensive to get computer audio to sound good. However, you can. In fact, the best playback of a string quartet recording -- regardless if digital or analog -- that I have ever heard was recently in a system playing a 16/44.1 file.

Yet it took years of fiddling to get digital file playback to sound so good in that system (and now it does involve a dCS network bridge, which only started to sound really good after the most recent upgrade). A few years ago my Simaudio 260 DT CD transport still beat the server there in a direct shootout (lack of grain, separation of instruments), now not anymore.

If I ever were to get into computer audio (Hell, I won't), I would start with a very expensive pre-made server (Baetis, Innuos, Taiko Audio or the like) -- it takes lots of time, effort and plain drama, all of which I am absolutely not interested in, to get DIY computer audio right. If I stream, I do so from YouTube, and if I like the music, I buy the CD.

Ok, Im curious to hear what computers and mods were used. Did you directly compare to your simaudio second time around?

Actually, I do stream. Sometimes for the cheer convenience but more often to find music that I like and then buy on discogs.
But I do find it a relief to get back to lp and cd.

I fully agree with the unbearable pain of diy computer audio and the associated buggy software. Ive been there.

Jesper

 

[Mdp632]

Distortion is the enemy is great sound. So, this infrastructure one has to invest in for computer audio is to remove the distortion from computer networks.

I won't dispute that computer audio/file playback is more convenient than physical media.

But, this is called What's Best Forum right?

The best sound still exists in the physical media format.

Especially in the digital domain.

But, again YMMV.

 

[Al M.]

I don't know the details of the computer system in the listening session that I was referring to. I am sure though the connection of computer to Network Bridge was via ethernet. I think the whole thing runs over Roon. We did not seriously compare to transport that second time.

The recording was from the famed series of Beethoven quartets by the Quartetto Italiano on Decca, from 1974. It was the middle quartet op. 59/1.

 

[microstrip]

I don't know the details of the computer system in the listening session that I was referring to. I am sure though the connection of computer to Network Bridge was via ethernet. I think the whole thing runs over Roon. We did not seriously compare to transport that second time.

The recording was from the famed series of Beethoven quartets by the Quartetto Italiano on Decca, from 1974. It was the middle quartet op. 59/1.

Thanks. Do you remember what was the DAC and how it was connected to the DCS Network bridge?

I have these performances in LP, an absolutely fabulous box. I will look for them in Qobuz.

 

[Al M.]

Thanks. Do you remember what was the DAC and how it was connected to the DCS Network bridge?

I have these performances in LP, an absolutely fabulous box. I will look for them in Qobuz.

MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable > Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC.

Yes, the LPs sound great as well!

 

[Alpinist]

I voted with my wallet for the MSB Select II DAC. I prefer its sound with its internal preamp to reference level external preamps. The SGM Extreme with internal SSD would be state of the art but I have been extremely happy with my Roon Nucleus Plus and Synology DS3018XS NAS. Totally turn key with bulletproof functionality and sounds wonderful.

I have flirted with moving to the Pro USB input module from the Renderer II but I just can’t seem to part with the Roon control of the Select II’s volume from my IPad, which the Pro USB apparently cannot do, I have no desire to move back to using a USB cable and I love the level of detail and ease the Renderer II provides.

Ken

 

[2ndLiner]

My experience is similar to jfrech's. I have a Vivaldi One in my system with the external Vivaldi clock. To the music, the clock brings more of "everything," tonal richness, body, detail, dynamics, all of which serves to deliver the intended emotional impact. I have heard the MSB Select II at a few shows and loved it...And I use a CJ GAT2 preamp. In my system it sounds much better than without.

 

[phunge]

interesting discussion... Anyone have thoughts on the latest Esoteric digital stack?

 

[LL21]

My experience is similar to jfrech's. I have a Vivaldi One in my system with the external Vivaldi clock. To the music, the clock brings more of "everything," tonal richness, body, detail, dynamics, all of which serves to deliver the intended emotional impact. I have heard the MSB Select II at a few shows and loved it...And I use a CJ GAT2 preamp. In my system it sounds much better than without.

Congrats! Sounds like a great system...I certainly know one of those components well...and have enjoyed listening to a number of systems running the Vivaldi stack which preceded your Vivaldi One.

 

[2ndLiner]

Thank you, LL21, I have no doubt the components you've chosen for your system deliver a major slice of audio heaven! I have never heard Zanden but have read about their offerings and have appreciated their bling factor. I also use VAC 200iq mono blocs and Raidho D2.1 speakers with Cardas Clear Beyond cabling...

 

[caesar]

interesting discussion... Anyone have thoughts on the latest Esoteric digital stack?

The Esoteric DAC is definitely "reference" level. But Esoteric has the same issue as dCS - it is system dependent and can sound sterile in many, many systems.

But if we are talking "best digital", the Esoteric transport, with a good digital cable, feeding a superbly musical DAC like msb or a DAC with that wrenching emotional quality like TotalDAC, will give you the best, state of the art digital. That transport even with a decent DAC will blow away most streaming solutions, and it won't be even close.


If it piques your interest, definitely audition.

 

[microstrip]

The Esoteric DAC is definitely "reference" level. But Esoteric has the same issue as dCS - it is system dependent and can sound sterile in many, many systems (...)

Well IMHO not many, many but just some, as most top components that want to keep all the information and do not have a tailored sound signature.

 

[microstrip]

My experience is similar to jfrech's. I have a Vivaldi One in my system with the external Vivaldi clock. To the music, the clock brings more of "everything," tonal richness, body, detail, dynamics, all of which serves to deliver the intended emotional impact. I have heard the MSB Select II at a few shows and loved it...And I use a CJ GAT2 preamp. In my system it sounds much better than without.

Congratulations on the Vivaldi One and clock - it was the source that was used in the WAMM presentation at our distributor.

I fully agree with you, the GAT2 is a an excellent match with the DCS Vivaldi - it is what I am currently listening. The GAT2 adds refinement and easiness to the sound without compromising detail, keeping the main characteristic of most cj's of being fatigue free.