Stillpoints Ultra 6 v's Critical Mass Systems Centre Stage 2
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I only have the Ultra SS, so this post is just research, but it is my understanding the Stillpoints Ultra 5 was developed specifically for loudspeakers, not components. It can be used for components but the proper application is speakers, and it can take a very high weight. And yet the early part of this thread is people mostly comparing the Ultra 5 in its wrong application. It's the Ultra 6 you need. And not just that, Paul Wakeen claims the new v2 versions bring a 30-40% lift in performance over the v1. An exaggeration to be sure, but this means a real apples to apples comparison is the Stillpoints Ultra 6 v2 against the CMS CS2.
One thing I have found with the Ultra SS (which possibly applies to Stillpoints 5/6 but might not) is that level matching is critical. The slightest movement of a component when rocking means one of the 4 footers needs to be slightly adjusted, even a fraction of a millimetre. And the performance drop off can be fairly drastic unless its done. Properly levelled means solid as a rock with no movement, and this dials in the performance. And with light weight components such as DAC's its so easy to move the device and ruin the levelling by just pushing some switches, let alone cable swapping.
One thing I have found with the Ultra SS (which possibly applies to Stillpoints 5/6 but might not) is that level matching is critical. The slightest movement of a component when rocking means one of the 4 footers needs to be slightly adjusted, even a fraction of a millimetre. And the performance drop off can be fairly drastic unless its done. Properly levelled means solid as a rock with no movement, and this dials in the performance. And with light weight components such as DAC's its so easy to move the device and ruin the levelling by just pushing some switches, let alone cable swapping.
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ive used sp mini v2. ss ultra. ultra 5. cms .8
stillpoint clean up the sound more detail tight even slightly sterile if used on the wrong component.
cms adds more relaxed bloomy wooly warm. less detail more tone easier to deal with bit more fun but less accurate.
i use cms under my gigawatt pc3 se evo
stillpoint under sbooster power supply bonn n8
merging power player stack and vitus sia 025
ultra 5 is my favourite footer is best of both world bass and detail.
the search continues
stillpoint clean up the sound more detail tight even slightly sterile if used on the wrong component.
cms adds more relaxed bloomy wooly warm. less detail more tone easier to deal with bit more fun but less accurate.
i use cms under my gigawatt pc3 se evo
stillpoint under sbooster power supply bonn n8
merging power player stack and vitus sia 025
ultra 5 is my favourite footer is best of both world bass and detail.
the search continues
Have you listened to any of the Dalby Audio footers under electronics? To my ears they surpass both CMS and Stillpoints. Haven’t heard a Stillpoints footer by the way that didn’t impart a slight hardness/sterility to the sound. In my opinion no “stationary” chassis contacting vibration absorbing/dissipating footer (e.g., ASI, CMS, Dalby, Stillpoints, Wilson, RevOPod, etc.) provides the benefits of combining such footers with a movement based device (e.g., Townshend, Wellfloat). This is particularly true for speakers but applies to electronics as well. Such combinations are commonplace among the system photos at Audio Exotics, and my own experience bears this out.ive used sp mini v2. ss ultra. ultra 5. cms .8
stillpoint clean up the sound more detail tight even slightly sterile if used on the wrong component.
cms adds more relaxed bloomy wooly warm. less detail more tone easier to deal with bit more fun but less accurate.
i use cms under my gigawatt pc3 se evo
stillpoint under sbooster power supply bonn n8
merging power player stack and vitus sia 025
ultra 5 is my favourite footer is best of both world bass and detail.
the search continues
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I experimented with steel points in my system years ago and then I heard them again under our friends CD player last week. I completely agree with your assessment that they impart a slight hardness and sterility to the sound. As soon as we removed them, the sound became more natural.
I heard CMS footers in my friends system a couple years ago. He had for under each of his components. The sound was very strange. We started removing them one component at a time, and each time the sound improved becoming more open, more dynamic, and more natural. He returned them during the trial period.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
you might want to have a listen too the new Ultra TT Center Stage footer. As for Stillpoints... They rob the system of ambient sound with a complete loss of presence. There is no comparison
@PeterA. with all due respect your friend heard a beta version of the initial CS footer prototype over 4 years ago. If you want to comment, kindly give proper current information (which you don't have). You're comparing apples to anything but the same
Interesting...my favorite footer is using an HRS Nimbus Coupler (elastomer on both sides with metal inside) sitting ON TOP of the Stillpoints Ultra 7 as a single combination. I place the component on top...and it gives all the detail, discernment of Stillpoints but you get brilliant tone/depth of HRS with none of the slightly hardening of the sound, potentially slightly sterile treble that some have heard (including me) of Stillpoints.ive used sp mini v2. ss ultra. ultra 5. cms .8
stillpoint clean up the sound more detail tight even slightly sterile if used on the wrong component.
cms adds more relaxed bloomy wooly warm. less detail more tone easier to deal with bit more fun but less accurate.
i use cms under my gigawatt pc3 se evo
stillpoint under sbooster power supply bonn n8
merging power player stack and vitus sia 025
ultra 5 is my favourite footer is best of both world bass and detail.
the search continues
Physically it looks a little like Wilsons new isolation puck.
I do that on all components now.
Steve, those footers were sold to him as products and were purported to do what was claimed in all of the over the top advertising, which must be why he bought them. I simply described what I heard and what the other two guys heard. They were supposed to improve the sound over stock footers, but they did the opposite. Even beta versions of prototypes, they were sold to a paying customer. If they were bad products, they should never have been sold. Yes, I have read that there have been newer versions sold. I can certainly share my listening impressions here on this open audio discussion forum.
You say I do not have "current information", and that in order to comment, I should "kindly give proper current information". In other words, you are telling me not to comment. Is that right? I just scrolled to the bottom of this page and looked up the TOS. TOS #1 addresses your comment on my post.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Peter
please don't parse my words to make something else out of it. I appreciate a 4 yo comment but to set the record straight your friend did not want to spend full price and as a result was offered a set of initial version Center Stage beta footers which IIRC were brushed aluminum finish and not black anodized. Having said that I will never argue with what someone hears. That is a personal opinion. But that information is over 4 years old. My comment was directed to those who mentioned how tight the footer must be to the underside of the component. I agree completely with that. We used to supply shims for that very purpose however Joe's newest footer the Ultra TT his auto leveling and adjustable in height . I was merely trying to say that if everyone is comparing current products then making a comment on something that is not current production is not a fair comparison. I would have to think you would agree with that premise. I also had SP's in my entire system and was mesmerized by them because of the way sound came and went out of darkness. The reality is that that is not the way we hear. IMHO ambience with SP's does not exist at the expense of black background and as a result for my ears there is a complete loss of presence. This for me is a deal breaker. Can someone explain to me how Stillpoints work. Is there some law of physics under which they function? I am not sure. However I can tell you under what Law of Physics Center Stage footers are designed around
please don't parse my words to make something else out of it. I appreciate a 4 yo comment but to set the record straight your friend did not want to spend full price and as a result was offered a set of initial version Center Stage beta footers which IIRC were brushed aluminum finish and not black anodized. Having said that I will never argue with what someone hears. That is a personal opinion. But that information is over 4 years old. My comment was directed to those who mentioned how tight the footer must be to the underside of the component. I agree completely with that. We used to supply shims for that very purpose however Joe's newest footer the Ultra TT his auto leveling and adjustable in height . I was merely trying to say that if everyone is comparing current products then making a comment on something that is not current production is not a fair comparison. I would have to think you would agree with that premise. I also had SP's in my entire system and was mesmerized by them because of the way sound came and went out of darkness. The reality is that that is not the way we hear. IMHO ambience with SP's does not exist at the expense of black background and as a result for my ears there is a complete loss of presence. This for me is a deal breaker. Can someone explain to me how Stillpoints work. Is there some law of physics under which they function? I am not sure. However I can tell you under what Law of Physics Center Stage footers are designed around
Steve, I understand you're talking your book. No problemo.
Stillpoints were hugely popular when they first came out. Paul Wakeen had a very successful product on his hands and there are lots of positive user experiences expressed here and elsewhere.
The 'issue' of black backgrounds is not so much about the way we hear -- people obviously hear what they do with Stillpoints in place. Black backgrounds are a non-natural audiophile 'virtue' -- found in listening rooms and extolled by certain popular reviewers, but not heard in live venues with live acoustic music. I have not heard Center Stage footers so don't know if they yield this effect or mitigate presence.
As far as how Stillpoints function, they turn physical/mechanical vibration from a component into heat. I am not a physicist but the First Law of Thermodynamics (put in caps to make it look important) which is a restatement of the law of conservation of energy is probably what you're looing for. The whole "Law of Physics" thing with Center Stage strikes me as marketing. Everything operates under the laws of physics.
...truer words have never been written. I am reading this with morning coffee, ridiculously agile hummingbirds at the feeder, sun rising over Gila NF, all courtesy of "the Laws of Physics." I loves me some physics!
how do you decide which cms footer to use. 0.8, 1.0 or 1.5? Or do you simply use 1.5 for all of your gears?
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Yeah I saw that in your new post. I’ll probably have a look at TT instead of 2M.
Nor am I a physicist. The design of the "technology pocket" of Stillpoints Ultra products has evolved over the years. The design goal being to create a non-straight, confused path for the physical/mechanical vibration to travel resulting in that vibration dissipated as quickly as is possible as heat.
I agree completely.
As I recall and checked to verify, Joe L. stated the Second law of Thermodynamics, which says that electromechanical and dynamic systems like audio components reach a state of disarray after some use, which he rectifies (for lack of a better descriptor) resulting in better sonics. There are many more details available along that result in his secret sauce. You can call that "marketing", I personally find it refreshing when designers give specifics as to how they achieve what they do. The alternative which we see via many companies is to state nothing.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
simply put Joe's CMS racks function under First Law of Thermodynamics and his footers function under Second Law of Thermodynamics
I wish there was an easy way to rectify my own state of disarray!
My wife would appreciate if my “sonics” were improved, though she might opt for a “black background”, natural or not.
You and me both my friend!I wish there was an easy way to rectify my own state of disarray!
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