Stillpoints Ultra 6 v's Critical Mass Systems Centre Stage 2
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No way to know without a direct comparison.not this.....
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TANA 150 & 140 ACTIVE ANTI-VIBRATION PLATFORMS – Taiko Audio
taikoaudio.com
Visually yes. From what I've read about Wellfloat's other devices they all work on the principles of a pendulum, and were originally developed for isolating pianos and other musical instruments - very different from Stillpoints. They were already the favorite at Audio Exotics before the Babel:
Home - WELLFLOAT English HiFi Board, Vibration, WELLFLOAT, Audio
ZERO DISTORTION – BEST HIFI ISOLATION PLATFORM FROM JAPAN SINCE 2009. HiFi Board to control vibration.wellfloat-global.com
No idea how they are designing it...looks vaguely like a Stillpoints Ultra 6 or 7...though bigger.
Well Float - A new game changer on mechanical vibration management - Page 6
audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com
FYI: https://6moons.com/industry_articles/controlling-resonances/not this.....
View attachment 96389
TANA 150 & 140 ACTIVE ANTI-VIBRATION PLATFORMS – Taiko Audio
Note the footnote at the end. If the Wellfloat Babel has a resonant frequency of 3Hz and an anti-vibration ratio of 10 to the 16th power how does that compare with the modified microscope isolation platforms from Taiko?
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Here are the comments that were in my original post about the Babel:
I am Speechless — Babel by WELLFLOAT
I am Speechless - BABEL by Wellfloat
It appears that the Babel is 660,000 Yen or about $5K, which is half or less of the cost of Taiko's "Tana" modified Herzan microscope isolation platforms. Has anyone read a review of one of these Taiko platforms? Haven't been able to find one online including at the Taiko website. Also haven't heard or read a level of performance attributed to the Taiko Tana platforms comparable to what was described for the Wellfloat Babel in the Audio Exotics comments.
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Interesting! Here in the UK, I am told one of the big music international colleges/conservatories uses the Stillpoints under their pianos. Would be intrigued to hear what these Wellfloats do. There is also a Tungsten-based design with elastomers as well which I have read good things about.Visually yes. From what I've read about Wellfloat's other devices they all work on the principles of a pendulum, and were originally developed for isolating pianos and other musical instruments - very different from Stillpoints. They were already the favorite at Audio Exotics before the Babel:
Well Float - A new game changer on mechanical vibration management - Page 6
Cellcbern said:
Here are the comments that were in my original post about the Babel:
I am Speechless — Babel by WELLFLOAT
I am Speechless - BABEL by Wellfloat
audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com
It appears that the Babel is 660,000 Yen or about $5K, which is half or less of the cost of Taiko's "Tana" modified Herzan microscope isolation platforms. Has anyone read a review of one of these Taiko platforms? Haven't been able to find one online including at the Taiko website. Also haven't heard or read a level of performance attributed to the Taiko Tana platforms comparable to what was described for the Wellfloat Babel in the Audio Exotics comments.
I just clicked on the link you sent, Cellcbern...looks like ONE Babel per piece of equipment, located under the center of the unit. So $5K/piece of equipment as long as it is stable at that diameter.
...no axe to grind at all here, just genuinely trying to understand the application.
Can anyone clarify the concept behind the text (from Wellfloat article): "...resonant frequency of 3Hz and an anti-vibration ratio of 10 to the 16th power..."
I understand the resonance bit, but a ratio requires two components to establish a comparative relationship, doesn't it? Is 10^16th compared to zero vibration, or "1" in a ratio comparison? 1:10^16
Also, wouldn't any vibrational interaction or management be at the molecular level...for any/everything? That reads a little "quantum-ish" to me.
The pendulum concept is interesting, but the application looks over-engineered from what little you can see in the pics. Thank you for posting the info as stimulus for thought, @Cellcbern
Can anyone clarify the concept behind the text (from Wellfloat article): "...resonant frequency of 3Hz and an anti-vibration ratio of 10 to the 16th power..."
I understand the resonance bit, but a ratio requires two components to establish a comparative relationship, doesn't it? Is 10^16th compared to zero vibration, or "1" in a ratio comparison? 1:10^16
Also, wouldn't any vibrational interaction or management be at the molecular level...for any/everything? That reads a little "quantum-ish" to me.
The pendulum concept is interesting, but the application looks over-engineered from what little you can see in the pics. Thank you for posting the info as stimulus for thought, @Cellcbern
it's how science does it.
below is for just the basic TS platform; the Taiko package improves some of those stats but i don't have measurements myself. i use 5 of these systems in my system.....you can see pics in my system link at the bottom of my posts. passive can't touch these numbers. but active is not a perfect fit for every situation.
Yes - however with no comparisons from reviews and so few users that you get nothing back in an online search it is hard to know whether or not "how science does it" is optimal for audio, all the more so since it is active only below 1000Hz and uses springs (as I recall) above that. I've seen this data - it is from the Herzan website which doesn't even include audio as a potential application. Perhaps enough data will be released on the Wellfloat Babel at some point to make an "apples to apples" comparison with the Herzan/Taiko platforms.
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Here's a review of one of the earlier Wellfloat isolation platform designs that provides more insight into the pendulum technology:
Hi
Taste in audio is a way. I spoke about real results of vibration draining and a damping to get almost aperiodic decays. What is important for audiophiles is to like what they ear, but anyhow the is a different approach than true science of mechanical grounding. My purpose is just to reflects what I learned as engineer and professor of mechanical vibrations in a French university.
This is what I wonder. I have yet to pull the trigger on either racks or 3rd party footers, and when presented with the option to buy used StillPoints, I turned them down because my limited funds would be better spent on good racks—CORRECT?
If a good suspension rack can not take care of the isolation and/or entropy issues, then what is the point of a good rack (looking at Artesania)? Would a system (source components and/or amps/pre) STILL benefit even once placed on a good suspension rack?
Anyone compared?
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Not necessarily "CORRECT". If you have limited funds (like me) I recommend that you do the cost comparison between a premium rack, and a well designed, inexpensive, basic rack like the Salamander Archetype with an isolation platform on top and isolating spike cups (e.g., Herbie’s Audio Lab Cone/Spike Decoupling Glider) under each of the rack’s spikes. Note also that neither a rack nor an isolation platform necessarily obviates the need for isolation/tuning feet. It is not an "either-or" if you are serious about isolation. "Cream of the Crop" isolation platforms like SRA may both isolate and drain/tune internally generated component resonances. Mid-tier and high value racks on the other hand typically only isolate and need help from platforms and/or footers in order to dissipate internal component resonances. I was getting superb isolation (see photos) from an inexpensive Salamander Archetype rack with custom isolation feet under each of the rack's spikes and an old Townshend Seismic Sink 3D air platform (that I bough used) on top. Yet the addition of first ASI Top Line feet (1st photo), replaced later with the extraordinary Dalby Audio Lignum Vitae feet (2nd photo) between my sacd player and the air platform resulted in significant increases in clarity and articulation. Note that if you look at the Audio Exotics website you will find photos of isolation platforms and/or feet being used on top of even world class, cost no object racks.
Out of curiosity, what racks were you considering?
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FWIW all of my front and rear ended components are sitting on CMS racks and each component sits on CS feet which sit on the CMS racks.
Assume one set of four CS feet. Place under DAC, or under preamp?
Of course, listening is paramount, but a guide toward where to start is helpful.
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