stuff of dreams....3000 classical records inbound.

[Mike Lavigne]

at least 15 to 20.

seriously i will make a list.

ok, after just doing a quick look at my 'B's, this is not anything i can do quickly. the name is followed by the number of pressings. i can say that in each case, these are records i want to listen to all the way through.

Frantisek Benda---2
Franz Berwald--2
Heinrich Biber--2 (had heard this name before)
William Boyce--3
Frank Bridge--4
William Byrd--12

making a list is not really productive. maybe many more than 20 "new to me" composers.....that i have an interest in.

but also it's the depth added to what i had. for instance, my Bach (all three of them) has gone from 25 to close to a hundred pressings. and the collection is so comprehensive (as i'm able to understand it at my level of knowledge), that it has a wonderful coverage. reading the jacket covers, most composers that are mentioned (referred to or cross referenced) are represented in the collection.

i was told this was owned by a classical music reviewer; and maybe they also taught music too just looking at it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

That's so awesome that you're having that much fun with this Mike.

It's always fun to have a new audio project and then have a sense of accomplishment when completed - especially one on such a massive scale as this one.

Although I don't do vinyl, I've enjoyed reading your journey with these.

thanks Michael. no downside. i'm anxious to see if my brief teases from these pressings delivers and holds my interest. i suspect it will and the fun has just begun.

 

[bonzo75]

exploring classical through streaming has been fun, but what my system with vinyl does for this music sucks me in so much more, more tasty and embracing. easier to relate to the humanity of it. really an experience.

Mike, since your posts have influence, I know a couple of guys who might request such statements to be moderated.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, since your posts have influence, I know a couple of guys who might request such statements to be moderated.

i think that most digital only proponents acknowledge that vinyl can be more immersive and satisfying to listen to, simply not enough better for them in their circumstances, to deal with the efforts involved. so would not have any conflict with my viewpoint. and the fact that this early music especially being so acoustic and nuanced, very much plays to vinyl's strengths. it goes where the greatest disparity between the formats exists.

exploring classical through streaming has been fun, but what my system with vinyl does for this music sucks me in so much more, more tasty and embracing. easier to relate to the humanity of it. really an experience.

but looking at it from another perspective, i think my encounter with this opportunity to acquire a fully curated early music + historically significant collection like this one (if it is indeed what it appears to me to be.....a question not yet answered), is very random and somewhat a needle in a haystack. there are plenty of vinyl collections out there to purchase; it's not that big a deal to collect numbers of Lp's. and i do not mean to disparage any vinyl collection for sale, or acquired. but the combination of stumbling on something like this, and the desire to take this leap not really knowing where i would land, has very long odds. i read the description in the ad, but had no idea what that really meant. and i am still figuring that out and will continue to do that.

how would one put together something like this? you would have to have the knowledge somehow, then pursue the pressings. it would be a dauting task. not so much the cost, as the pressings are not expensive, but the detailed effort to do it would be prohibitive. what would cause you to even consider doing it? it's not like there is a big move toward finding early music vinyl. the whole subject has to find you, not the other way around. i had no intensions for this when i saw the ebay ad. i just wanted a classical collection, whatever that might mean?

i know that i had to personally evolve my tastes in jazz to desire more avant-garde compositions, and also with classical i had to evolve in the same way to be open to more types of classical. 10-15 years ago my tastes would not have been nearly as open to these recordings. so part of this is my own growth. it's not for everybody.

getting back to your point, i would only suggest that anyone who doubts how great early music can sound on vinyl, to visit me, grab 10 random classical pressings you have never heard of off my shelf, and let's just listen. unless you already know you don't care for the music, it will suck you in. this music had to be the best of the best for it's time to get recognized and carried forward as part of history. and it has real power.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

i think that most digital only proponents acknowledge that vinyl can be more immersive and satisfying to listen to, simply not enough better for them in their circumstances, to deal with the efforts involved. so would not have any conflict with my viewpoint. and the fact that this early music especially being so acoustic and nuanced, very much plays to vinyl's strengths. it goes where the greatest disparity between the formats exists.



but looking at it from another perspective, i think my encounter with this opportunity to acquire a fully curated early music + historically significant collection like this one (if it is indeed what it appears to me to be.....a question not yet answered), is very random and somewhat a needle in a haystack. there are plenty of vinyl collections out there to purchase; it's not that big a deal to collect numbers of Lp's. and i do not mean to disparage any vinyl collection for sale, or acquired. but the combination of stumbling on something like this, and the desire to take this leap not really knowing where i would land, has very long odds.

how would one put together something like this? you would have to have the knowledge somehow, then pursue the pressings. it would be a dauting task. not so much the cost, as the pressings are not expensive, but the detailed effort to do it would be prohibitive. what would cause you to even consider doing it? it's not like there is a big move toward finding early music vinyl. the whole subject has to find you, not the other way around. i had no intensions for this when i saw the ebay ad. i just wanted a classical collection, whatever that might mean?

i know that i had to personally evolve my tastes in jazz to desire more avant-garde compositions, and also with classical i had to evolve in the same way to be open to more types of classical. 10-15 years ago my tastes would not have been nearly as open to these recordings. so part of this is my own growth. it's not for everybody.

getting back to your point, i would only suggest that anyone who doubts how great early music can sound on vinyl, to visit me, gab 10 random classical pressings you have never heard of off my shelf, and let's just listen. unless you already know you don't care for the music, it will suck you in. this music had to be the best of the best for it's time to get recognized and carried forward as part of history. and it has real power.

I purchased 4250 classical CDs from an 85 year old gentleman who kept 300 or more of his favorites. He also wants to sell his 800+ early classical and choral music LPs, mint condition, for a reasonable (low) price. However, the issue is transportation costs from Calabasas, CA. I did not purchase this great collection because the music is very early classical, from middle ages to Renaissance. I prefer listening to classical period to modern classical, jazz/pop from 1900 to 1980s and ethnic music. I already have 31,100 LPs which I am going to cull 5,000 LPs from (duplicates, mono operas when they also stereo recordings, etc, domestic so-so sonic pressings). The owner needs money for his medical conditions. He would like the collection to go to a good home (as did his CDs). Let me know if you are interested. I'm certain it would be a new experience with 1000-1600 period classical music.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I purchased 4250 classical CDs from an 85 year old gentleman who kept 300 or more of his favorites. He also wants to sell his 800+ early classical and choral music LPs, mint condition, for a reasonable (low) price. However, the issue is transportation costs from Calabasas, CA. I did not purchase this great collection because the music is very early classical, from middle ages to Renaissance. I prefer listening to classical period to modern classical, jazz/pop from 1900 to 1980s and ethnic music. I already have 31,100 LPs which I am going to cull 5,000 LPs from (duplicates, mono operas when they also stereo recordings, etc, domestic so-so sonic pressings). The owner needs money for his medical conditions. He would like the collection to go to a good home (as did his CDs). Let me know if you are interested. I'm certain it would be a new experience with 1000-1600 period classical music.

this is a great opportunity. i hope someone here jumps on it and then tells us about it. my perspective is that it will be a rich experience that will be well worth it. modern classical just scratches the surface of the depth of the subject.

i have plenty of Middle Ages to Renaissance (1100-1500), but much more in the period Late Renaissance forward (1500-present). that would be my only kicker, that the later 'early-music' period has lots of interesting music. the very early stuff is more similar.....less change happening. but this collection might be a nice foundation to build on.

you do need to be in the right head space for it and have the energy to devote to it. it requires commitment.

 

[marty]

you do need to be in the right head space for it and have the energy to devote to it. it requires commitment.

Forget head space and energy. Even comatose, the biggest commitment is time! By my count, to listen to all those CDs and LPs would take about 3.5 years of listening 8 hours a day. For those of us "on the back 9", that's asking an awful lot! For those of us rounding the clubhouse turn, it's even more daunting. . I hope this collection winds up in the hands of someone in his 40's. They're gonna need plenty of years to savor this purchase.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

Forget head space and energy. Even comatose, the biggest commitment is time! By my count, to listen to all those CDs and LPs would take about 3.5 years of listening 8 hours a day. For those of us "on the back 9", that's asking an awful lot! For those of us rounding the clubhouse turn, it's even more daunting. . I hope this collection winds up in the hands of someone in his 40's. They're gonna need plenty of years to savor this purchase.

I am ecstatic that the 3,750 CDs I saved from the trash by a world renown classical piano expert who had strokes and is nearly a comatose person (as to music-dead). He collected very esoteric composer's music as well of which the pre-classical period I'm not interested in but it had about 1,000 piano CDs of live performances and rare/limited edition CDs. Very enjoyable were the pianists in their 80s performing works not associated with their recorded repertoire (or concerts). Earl Wild, Jeanne Darre, Arthur Balsam, Ernst Dohnanyi for example 82 to 86 years old performing in excellent sound studio recordings. The other collection was heavy into American classical composers which just added to my existing collection. I have heard in the past 1.5 yeas after acquiring these CDs, about 700 of the CDs. With my new Poseidon DAC and Jay's Audio transport, even mediocre sonics are often listenable and enjoyable. I had previously had a problem with recordings recorded far from the mikes or in a big hall rather than studio or like the old Mercury, RCA and Decca recordings. Too reverberant recordings often are acceptable wherein they were previously shunned as indistinct and flat sounding. I am still purchasing more Jazz CDs as I have most of the classical I can apportion time to listen to from my entire collection.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

here are three quick hits of obscure composers i'm listening to today. it's so cool to just listen and not have the RCM going. excellent all analog recordings, some with original instruments. the music just flows. beautiful.

Giuseppe Sammartini, (1673-1770) 4 Lp's
Vaclav Masek (1755-1831)-2 Lp's.
Domenico Cimarosa (1749-1801)-2 Lp's.

all three here are in the Bach/Haydn/Mozart transitional time period. there is the Italian influence and the German influence. if you listen to those three more well known composers and then these others it's very interesting where you hear common things going on. but the music is wonderful whether your head is connecting dots or just riding the wave.

probably my favorites of these are the Cimarosa Requiem, the Masek Sinfona in D sharp, and the Sammartini Concreti & Sinfonie.....so far.

edit--the Sammartini Five Symphonies are also very nice.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

if you are having a bad day, might i suggest just a little 'Palestrina'? it might fix what ails you. choral music on well sorted out stereo systems can really hit it out of the park. especially on vinyl. but how much of this are we exposed to? maybe none, ever. how much can it hurt to try it?

the Veni Sponsa Christi below is superb.

Palestrina is the name taken by Giovanni Pierluigi (1525-1594) from the name of the town, Palestrina, where he was born. he mostly composed choral 'Church Music'.....which was how things were in the 1500's mostly.

 

[Barry2013]

if you are having a bad day, might i suggest just a little 'Palestrina'? it might fix what ails you. choral music on well sorted out stereo systems can really hit it out of the park. especially on vinyl. but how much of this are we exposed to? maybe none, ever. how much can it hurt to try it?

the Veni Sponsa Christi below really hits the spot.

Palestrina is the name taken by Giovanni Pierluigi (1525-1594) from the name of the town, Palestrina, where he was born. he mostly composed choral 'Church Music'.....which was how things were in the 1500's mostly.

View attachment 135800

if you are having a bad day, might i suggest just a little 'Palestrina'? it might fix what ails you. choral music on well sorted out stereo systems can really hit it out of the park. especially on vinyl. but how much of this are we exposed to? maybe none, ever. how much can it hurt to try it?

the Veni Sponsa Christi below is superb.

Palestrina is the name taken by Giovanni Pierluigi (1525-1594) from the name of the town, Palestrina, where he was born. he mostly composed choral 'Church Music'.....which was how things were in the 1500's mostly.

View attachment 135800

Palestrina and William Byrd feature regularly on BBC Radio 3 so highly regarded composers here in the UK andEurope

 

[oldvinyl]

how would one put together something like this?

I started with Bach Brandenburg Concertos and Orchestral Suites, got the records from the Steinway House in Hamburg, Germany when I passed through returning from a business trip. That's how I found out about Deutsche Harmonia Mundi recordings and the Collegium Aureum. Collegium Aureum had been together performing and recording for about 20 years at that point. So, I started acquiring other releases on the Harmonia Mundi label and by the Collegium Aureum.
Then, I noticed that some of the performers were in other ensembles also doing original instrument performances. So, I purchased some of those. Then, I started learning about other Renaissance and Baroque composers and started collecting recordings of their performances.
At some point, I just started collecting recordings 1) on labels that specialized in original instrument performances, 2) original instrument performances of composers I enjoyed and 3) by artists that specialized in original instrument performances. That led to a path of discovery of many composers and tons of music.
When record stores closed up, I went to a lot of used record stores and record shows. Spent hours flipping through boxes or bins of records hoping to find some gems.

you would have to have the knowledge somehow, then pursue the pressings.

I got started in the late 1970's. Some friends in college introduced me to what we called original instrument performances and recordings. There had been groups interested in period performance practices and instruments for decades.

it would be a dauting task. not so much the cost, as the pressings are not expensive, but the detailed effort to do it would be prohibitive. what would cause you to even consider doing it?

Mostly - I enjoyed the music. The records from that period are all analog, the record companies did an amazing job recording and in the release of these albums. Many of them have Grand Prix du Disque and other awards. The performers are amazing. The sounds of the instruments is interesting, to me anyway. Certainly, the performance style and practices offered an insight into the music not available elsewhere.
Since I traveled a lot for work, I made a point of visiting record stores whenever I was out of town. I also went to record shows and other events selling large collections.
As you mentioned, since there was little demand or interest in these recordings, they were often low cost and low risk purchase. One time I went to Sikora's Classical Records in Vancouver. They had a whole section of Early music. I got about 100 Das Alte Werke records for 1 dollar Canadian each.

it's not like there is a big move toward finding early music vinyl. the whole subject has to find you, not the other way around. i had no intensions for this when i saw the ebay ad. i just wanted a classical collection, whatever that might mean?

It's been a labor of love. I have put nearly 50 years into building my collection. It is over 10,000 records at this point. Much of the Early music recordings will not be reissued on CD or on LP. Although, I have been surprised by some of the Archiv reissues, though rather limited.
There have been a few eBay sellers that have posted some of this music and labels. They have gotten pricey and since they are usually in Europe, expensive to ship.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I started with Bach Brandenburg Concertos and Orchestral Suites, got the records from the Steinway House in Hamburg, Germany when I passed through returning from a business trip. That's how I found out about Deutsche Harmonia Mundi recordings and the Collegium Aureum. Collegium Aureum had been together performing and recording for about 20 years at that point. So, I started acquiring other releases on the Harmonia Mundi label and by the Collegium Aureum.
Then, I noticed that some of the performers were in other ensembles also doing original instrument performances. So, I purchased some of those. Then, I started learning about other Renaissance and Baroque composers and started collecting recordings of their performances.
At some point, I just started collecting recordings 1) on labels that specialized in original instrument performances, 2) original instrument performances of composers I enjoyed and 3) by artists that specialized in original instrument performances. That led to a path of discovery of many composers and tons of music.
When record stores closed up, I went to a lot of used record stores and record shows. Spent hours flipping through boxes or bins of records hoping to find some gems.

I got started in the late 1970's. Some friends in college introduced me to what we called original instrument performances and recordings. There had been groups interested in period performance practices and instruments for decades.

Mostly - I enjoyed the music. The records from that period are all analog, the record companies did an amazing job recording and in the release of these albums. Many of them have Grand Prix du Disque and other awards. The performers are amazing. The sounds of the instruments is interesting, to me anyway. Certainly, the performance style and practices offered an insight into the music not available elsewhere.
Since I traveled a lot for work, I made a point of visiting record stores whenever I was out of town. I also went to record shows and other events selling large collections.
As you mentioned, since there was little demand or interest in these recordings, they were often low cost and low risk purchase. One time I went to Sikora's Classical Records in Vancouver. They had a whole section of Early music. I got about 100 Das Alte Werke records for 1 dollar Canadian each.

It's been a labor of love. I have put nearly 50 years into building my collection. It is over 10,000 records at this point. Much of the Early music recordings will not be reissued on CD or on LP. Although, I have been surprised by some of the Archiv reissues, though rather limited.
There have been a few eBay sellers that have posted some of this music and labels. They have gotten pricey and since they are usually in Europe, expensive to ship.

wow!!! thank you.

"i got started in the late 70's" " Mostly - i enjoyed the music"

ok, so basically it's a life long journey. with considerable passion applied. congrats on getting it done. i have full appreciation for it.

great story, fascinating even. and about the level of steps and effort i would have expected. which validates how special this assembly of pressings i have here. it takes a labor of love and acquired knowledge.

my latest pressing from this collection is 1987 i think. we think of the 70's for the last all analog, but it was going strong into the mid 80's for this stuff. not the pop/rock.....but the momentum and lead time for this classical stuff was much longer. they really cared about the sound they got. commercial aspects secondary it seemed. more academic if anything.

 

[tima]

ok, after just doing a quick look at my 'B's, this is not anything i can do quickly. the name is followed by the number of pressings. i can say that in each case, these are records i want to listen to all the way through.

Frantisek Benda---2
Franz Berwald--2
Heinrich Biber--2 (had heard this name before)
William Boyce--3
Frank Bridge--4
William Byrd--12

making a list is not really productive. maybe many more than 20 "new to me" composers.....that i have an interest in.

but also it's the depth added to what i had. for instance, my Bach (all three of them) has gone from 25 to close to a hundred pressings. and the collection is so comprehensive (as i'm able to understand it at my level of knowledge), that it has a wonderful coverage. reading the jacket covers, most composers that are mentioned (referred to or cross referenced) are represented in the collection.

i was told this was owned by a classical music reviewer; and maybe they also taught music too just looking at it.

Biber is cool, experimental. If you like Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin, perhaps you lucked out in having a copy of Biber's Passacaglia. Or for choral, his Missa Christi Resurgentis, where choristers and musicians sat in four raised organ galleries. If things are right you will hear a square.

And then, two B's down, Frank Bridge. Guessing at least one of those is on the Lyrita label -- a wonderful sub-label of Decca.

Quite a collection and opportunity.

​

 

[tima]

Mike, since your posts have influence, I know a couple of guys who might request such statements to be moderated.

... or put in his signature.

 

[bonzo75]

. I hope this collection winds up in the hands of someone in his 40's. They're gonna need plenty of years to savor this purchase.

I take gifts

 

[oldvinyl]

ok, so basically it's a life long journey. with considerable passion applied. congrats on getting it done. i have full appreciation for it.

I met one collector that had been the manager of the downtown Seattle Fifth Avenue Record Shop. That store specialized in classical music (it is long gone). He listened to every promotional copy of records provided by the record labels once and then took the record home and added it to his collection.
He had an extensive collection of Telefunken Das Alte Werke since they were "free". I got a lot of records from him.
Not sure how much effort he put in, other than taking the records home.
In some of the used record stores, when they had recently acquired collections still grouped, I would sometimes find albums of Early music that had to have had a lot of effort and interest.
In the US, it was difficult, except in large cities, to find any of the Early music labels or performers. Even in NYC, I only found one store that had Deutsche Harmonia Mundi records when they were still being produced.

we think of the 70's for the last all analog, but it was going strong into the mid 80's for this stuff.

L'Oiseau-Lyre label was still putting out records in the 1980's. They had switched to digital recordings by then and still released on LP.
Archiv Produktion was putting out all analog in the 1970s. At some point they switched to digital and CDs, but I am not sure what year.
EMI Reflexe series got started in the 1970s. Some of their later pressings in the late 1980s were digitally recorded and released on LP.

commercial aspects secondary it seemed. more academic if anything.

Yes, much of the interest started centuries ago when musicians sought to discover and preserve the old scores (pre Baroque). Bach studied as much music as he could. Mozart studied Bach's music (and was clearly influenced in some of his compositions). Mendelssohn helped the ongoing revival of Bach's music. The 20th century had a lot of interest in discovering and preserving the scores, teaching and preserving the performance practices, and then recording them for posterity.
Part of that could (?) be influenced by realizing that the original instruments would not last forever - so get them recorded before they are done.
The Éditions de l'Oiseau-Lyre started as a music publisher to publish Early music manuscripts/scores. They then added the recording in the 1960's with recording staff from Decca.
If you look at the enembles performing on these labels, many of them are Early music scholars and specialists: Thomas Binkley and Studio der Fruehen Musik, Jordi Savall and Hespèrion XX, Helmut Walcha, Schola Cantorum Basiliensis, Pro Cantione Antiqua, Camerata Bern, Musica Antiqua Köln, The English Concert, Hilliard Ensemble ... too many to name.

 

[bonzo75]

I met one collector that had been the manager of the downtown Seattle Fifth Avenue Record Shop. That store specialized in classical music (it is long gone). He listened to every promotional copy of records provided by the record labels once and then took the record home and added it to his collection.
He had an extensive collection of Telefunken Das Alte Werke since they were "free". I got a lot of records from him.

This is one of my Das Alte Werks playing on Rensaeller’s system

 

[bonzo75]

By my count, to listen to all those CDs and LPs would take about 3.5 years of listening 8 hours a day.

This can cause https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/04/...esia happens when the,t feel pins and needles.

Must be a key issue for audiophiles, luckily most get up all the time from the seat to change something or the other

 

[SeagoatLeo]

This can cause https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/04/well/move/dead-butt-syndrome-gluteal-amnesia.html#:~:text=Gluteal amnesia happens when the,t feel pins and needles.

Must be a key issue for audiophiles, luckily most get up all the time from the seat to change something or the other

I sat for 6 to 8 hours daily 3+ days/week from age 15 to 23 listening to classical instrumental music while reading more than background levels. I also have listened to music for 2 hours nightly for about 15 years. Perhaps this gluteus syndrome affects streamers who don't arise to change a 78, LP, R2R or CD. Also, my wife thinks my gluteus is fabulous.