Supersense Mastercut Edition Lacquers
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Did you compare all the available Getz/Gilberto vinyl pressings back-to-back or just go by memory? What was the system you heard on?
I've done such a comparison back-to-back(Mofi, AP45, AP33, original, original second pressing) several times with a group of audiophiles and non-audiophiles and we all concluded that the earliest Verve stereo pressing with the deep-groove label sounds the best. Not that we are the "only the original pressing is the best" apologist but I believe the original master tapes that have been used have deteriorated and have lost some of their lusters.
By the way, there is no such thing as UHQR or one-step Gets/Gilberto vinyl releases.
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i remember the sound quality of the original US edition and the Analogue Pruductions 45 RPM edition of Getz/ Gilberto. Usually i prefer original pressings to audiophile reissues. This Mastercut edition is nothing less than another, superior league of sound compared to vinyl. it‘s a completely different listening experience. You feel you’re closer to the master tape than with any vinyl edition.
I can’t wait to listen to the mastercut of Beethoven 5th conducted by Carlos Kleiber, one of the most thrilling recordings of that symphony.
The difference one generation of tape copying makes is miniscule, especially when done with properly maintained professional equipment. A production master made from a less than 10-year-old studio master (edited work parts), and kept in the proper environment after fulfilling its duty for the next 40 years, will probably be better than the original master that has been used dozens more times in the interim. However, even if the lacquer was cut from an early generation master, it still suffers from the unavoidable disadvantages of end of side distorsion, surface noise etc. The amount of information that one can get onto an LP side is far less than a reel of 1/4" tape at 15ips (which is why tape is still used to store large volumes of data).
I never heard lacquer until our past listening event in Seattle when Fremer pulled out Buddy Holly amongst others and it presented like nothing I have heard before and many others indicated the same - it was a sense of magic.
I will admit, while the sound was fantastic, Fremer said the cartridge would gum up - this put me on edge, so it is important to keep your cartridge clean. I Onzowed it, as that was the only thing I could think of that would clean it, and it did leave residue on the Onzow, so that was good. Of course, now we are told not to use Onzow but that is another story.
So when I came across Super Sense not long ago, I had to give it a go and score Carlos Kleiber Weiner Philharmoniker Beethoven No 5. It is extremely well packaged, including having the album screwed down onto the jacket. I am looking forward to playing this over the weekend and hearing if it is as magical as what I heard this past November.
I will admit, while the sound was fantastic, Fremer said the cartridge would gum up - this put me on edge, so it is important to keep your cartridge clean. I Onzowed it, as that was the only thing I could think of that would clean it, and it did leave residue on the Onzow, so that was good. Of course, now we are told not to use Onzow but that is another story.
So when I came across Super Sense not long ago, I had to give it a go and score Carlos Kleiber Weiner Philharmoniker Beethoven No 5. It is extremely well packaged, including having the album screwed down onto the jacket. I am looking forward to playing this over the weekend and hearing if it is as magical as what I heard this past November.
Maybe the answer to the problems associated with these lacquer is to invest in a laser turntable like the ELP. I happen to have a copy of a production master of the Kleiber Beethoven 5th. A superb performance but the recording is so-so. Would be interesting to compare with the lacquer.
A few thoughts on these 'mastercuts'
Price- While $500 is a lot if dough for a record its actually a very reasonable price to master two sides, nicely package AND get licensing for the sale. Heck it was $200 a side to cut a master 40 years ago at a top mastering house
Durability - Korf Audio did a 100 play test and published on their blog. Results were surprisingly good. They attribute this to the MDC lacquer formulation, admitting having tested more rapid wear with Apollo lacquers.
Novelty - Supersense seems like a really cool group of enthusiasts doing fun projects. Good on them. The big news here is that they did the work to license the sale. They have a nice tuned up Neumann from mastering auteur Flo Kaufman, which shows commitment.
In reality anyone buying master tapes could simply order a pair of lacquers from a mastering studio ( licensing issues aside, as is often the case in the tape trade ) so the medium isn't novel...
Glad they are doing this. Looking at their portfolio it's obvious they love to tackle difficult projects...
Price- While $500 is a lot if dough for a record its actually a very reasonable price to master two sides, nicely package AND get licensing for the sale. Heck it was $200 a side to cut a master 40 years ago at a top mastering house
Durability - Korf Audio did a 100 play test and published on their blog. Results were surprisingly good. They attribute this to the MDC lacquer formulation, admitting having tested more rapid wear with Apollo lacquers.
Novelty - Supersense seems like a really cool group of enthusiasts doing fun projects. Good on them. The big news here is that they did the work to license the sale. They have a nice tuned up Neumann from mastering auteur Flo Kaufman, which shows commitment.
In reality anyone buying master tapes could simply order a pair of lacquers from a mastering studio ( licensing issues aside, as is often the case in the tape trade ) so the medium isn't novel...
Glad they are doing this. Looking at their portfolio it's obvious they love to tackle difficult projects...
I have had two lacquer discs cut from my recordings, to test them out. I have played them about 10 times each, and one of them is about 2 years old and still plays fine. I don't believe they do actually degrade, and I don't think they are intrinsically softer than vinyl is, which is pretty soft anyway - as they scratch easily. The sound quality of a lacquer is astonishingly good, with practically no noise, unlike a copy tape which has hiss. However they can develop ticks and pops like any record can and I have not tried to clean one yet, which I suspect would be ruinous. Time will tell, but I think Michael Fremer is probably right about his assessment based on my own experience. I am having one of my recordings being pressed on vinyl at the moment. www.base2music.store
Thanks for sharing. My findings are in line with yours, other than I have not cleaned them, SuperSense recommended not to.
An analog tape will wear much faster than a Supersense lacquer. I ordered a few and they are on their way…
If an analog tape wears much faster than a lacquer, it would not be possible to make the lacquer at all since the master tapes have been around for decades and would have been too worn to use.
Not really because they make copies and copies of those copies.
I read that a tape will degrade enough to be audible after about 50 plays. Is that under contention?
If all this TLC was taken into account, then most reel-to-reel tapes can undergo many plays without noticeable loss of hi-frequency signal, giving you around 50 or more plays without noticeable degradation
How Long Do Reel-to-Reel Tapes Last?
It feels like eons ago, but at one time, reel-to-reel (or R2R) tape was the pinnacle of audio engineering – the earliest form of magnetic tape used for audio recording. Released back in the 1940s, R2R saw its popularity soar as it competed with vinyl for several decades. However, by the 1980s...
legacybox.com
I don’t believe the reel tape medium was ever designed for repeated plays. It was mainly used as a studio master, from which to then make vinyl masters, etc.
The copy of MRL reference tape I am using now is about 7 years old. I use it probably once or twice a month at least to check on the level and to align the tones when making tape copies. I still have not measured any decline in the high frequency up to 20kHz.Not really because they make copies and copies of those copies.
I read that a tape will degrade enough to be audible after about 50 plays. Is that under contention?
If all this TLC was taken into account, then most reel-to-reel tapes can undergo many plays without noticeable loss of hi-frequency signal, giving you around 50 or more plays without noticeable degradation
How Long Do Reel-to-Reel Tapes Last?
It feels like eons ago, but at one time, reel-to-reel (or R2R) tape was the pinnacle of audio engineering – the earliest form of magnetic tape used for audio recording. Released back in the 1940s, R2R saw its popularity soar as it competed with vinyl for several decades. However, by the 1980s...
I don’t believe the reel tape medium was ever designed for repeated plays. It was mainly used as a studio master, from which to then make vinyl masters, etc.
Opus 3 sells direct copies of its original master tapes. They limit the number of copies they make to 50, all done one to one, so it appears that they feel that they can play the original master tape at least 50 times without degrading the performance of the original master tape. My experience is with good equipment, properly maintained, a tape can be played at least 50 times, probably over 100 times without degrading the performance. YMMV. LarryNot really because they make copies and copies of those copies.
I read that a tape will degrade enough to be audible after about 50 plays. Is that under contention?
If all this TLC was taken into account, then most reel-to-reel tapes can undergo many plays without noticeable loss of hi-frequency signal, giving you around 50 or more plays without noticeable degradation
How Long Do Reel-to-Reel Tapes Last?
It feels like eons ago, but at one time, reel-to-reel (or R2R) tape was the pinnacle of audio engineering – the earliest form of magnetic tape used for audio recording. Released back in the 1940s, R2R saw its popularity soar as it competed with vinyl for several decades. However, by the 1980s...
I don’t believe the reel tape medium was ever designed for repeated plays. It was mainly used as a studio master, from which to then make vinyl masters, etc.
Tapes are copied before a new album is pressed. The master tape is usually not played many times. Of course there are exceptions but the mater tape is played once for every album version that is released. So it’s far fewer than 50 times.
Many of my safety masters were made in the late '70s to early '90s of albums that were originally recorded in the 1950's to 1960's (like Brubeck's TIme Out, Coltrane's Love Supreme, Davis' Cookin'). The proudction and safety masters were dubbed from the original masters for reissues to vinyl or making digital masters for CD's, cassettes, etc. The original masters often have sheets showing the dates they were checked out to make the production and safety masters, and some of the popular albums were checked out over several decades, many, many times. One way to check is to look at Discogs and see for popular titles, how many times and over how many years were the albums reissued.
For example Time Out shows hundreds of pressings done in many, many countries, over many decades. Some of the later ones were probably from digital copies, but many were pre digital. For example my safety master of Time Out is dated 12.07.88 (July 12, 1988) with a matrix number 460611 1, with the designation Yugoslavia. If you look at Discogs and scroll down, you can find that it was used for a 1988 LP reissue. The entry after that shows a similar matrix number with a 40 in front, and indicating a cassette reissue from Yugoslavia, so it could be that the tape and its companion production master was also used for the cassette reissue.
Larry
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Mine arrived today. They are outstanding. No buts, ifs, or howevers. Just superb sounding. Insanely quiet. Clarity galore. Strong and textured bass. Balanced tone. All the boxes checked …
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