I don’t think the 0.2mV output of my Verismo is a good match for my ARC Ref 3SE phono stage. Even with the Ref 3SE’s 73db of gain, the cartridge just doesn’t have the drive and dynamics that the 0.5mV Umami Red has on the same table on the second input of the Ref 3SE. I don’t have any experience with SUTs but am open to any recommendations. Trying to decide whether to keep pursuing making this cartridge work or selling it. The Verismo has an internal impedance of 7ohms and recommended load setting of 10ohms. The Ref 3SE’s lowest load setting is 50 ohms.
My recommendation is Ortofon T-3000 or old Kondo SFz with 3ohms input. I’m very familiar with both. Unfortunately there is no budget SUT good for low impedance, low output cartridges. IMHO Ortofons benefit from low load considering their character.
you may want to try vintage SUTs like Fidelity Research XF-1 type L or XF-1 type M.
Few (vintage) AudioNote SUTs are optimised for low impedance cartridges as well and sound really good.
I’m using the current Kondo SFz on the 1.5 ohm setting with the Verismo, originally I used it with an Allnic 7000, big improvement. I was comparing that combo to the Kondo Heritage M7 with the SFz and felt the SFz and Allnic got me to 95% of the M7. Now it is tethered to a Kondo GE-10i , that is my end game!
I’m using the current Kondo SFz on the 1.5 ohm setting with the Verismo, originally I used it with an Allnic 7000, big improvement. I was comparing that combo to the Kondo Heritage M7 with the SFz and felt the SFz and Allnic got me to 95% of the M7. Now it is tethered to a Kondo GE-10i , that is my end game!
Wow, that SFz is a gorgeous piece! Not sure if the 34db gain is ideal with the 3SE’s low gain setting of 51db. Seems like the SFz might be a reason to upgrade the phone stage. The rabbit hole gets deeper. I just ordered a 0.5mV Lyra Atlas. Maybe I should stay focused!
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I’m running my 0,2mV Ortofon MC Diamond through my AirTight ATH-2 Reference SUT at 23dB gain… works extremely well ! Should work very well with the Verismo too. However.. it is a bit expensive… but very good.
Ortofon mc cartridges runs really good with 1:20 sut (26db)at 47kohm MM(load~ 117ohms)with standard mm input(40db) gain. No problems with noise with 0.2mV cartridge. Lower output cartridges e.g ortofon mc 7500 you need 72db gain.
I believe there are SUTs in most phono stages including the Ref 3SE. Maybe the SUT in the 3SE is not a good match for the low impedance Verismo. I have a Zesto and Gold Note phono stage so maybe I’ll try one of them with the Verismo just to see if I have the same issue. I have the Gold Note paired with a 0.2mV Ortofon SPU and it sounds pretty good.
I believe there are SUTs in most phono stages including the Ref 3SE. Maybe the SUT in the 3SE is not a good match for the low impedance Verismo. I have a Zesto and Gold Note phono stage so maybe I’ll try one of them with the Verismo just to see if I have the same issue. I have the Gold Note paired with a 0.2mV Ortofon SPU and it sounds pretty good.
I believe there are SUTs in most phono stages including the Ref 3SE. Maybe the SUT in the 3SE is not a good match for the low impedance Verismo. I have a Zesto and Gold Note phono stage so maybe I’ll try one of them with the Verismo just to see if I have the same issue. I have the Gold Note paired with a 0.2mV Ortofon SPU and it sounds pretty good.
The AR have no sut inside, mc gain (high)done with fet(transistors) use low gain setting with extern sut that brings you joy with ortofon mc.View attachment 136110
A SUT that matches your cartridge would be my advice for those looking to use a low output moving coil. It's finding the right SUT for your cartridge that makes this interesting. Don't assume that your preamp or separate phono stage has an actual step up transformer or even if it does that it will be the perfect match for your cartridge.
Sorry, I was thinking of my Zesto Andros Deluxe II that has built in SUTs. As I mentioned, I am planning to do some experimenting with my other phono preamps but I recently moved my turntable rack further from my main rack and I've been waiting for longer interconnect and PC to hook everything up.
I've also been conversing with Dave Slagle about building a custom SUT for this application. We were discussing 1:14 turns ration which would give me 23db of gain resulting in 74db of gain when using the low gain (51db) setting on the Ref 3SE. This is about the same as the Ref 3SE's high gain setting (73db) so I am a little concerned that I may end up with the same result. He mentioned a 1:20 SUT but I'm still waiting for feedback on what gain that would provide and what drawbacks vs. 1:14.
Ok, got everything hooked up again and was able to compare the high gain (73db) on the Ref 3SE to the high gain setting on the Zesto Andros Deluxe II (68db) and the results were very similar. There didn’t seem to be a 5db difference but it’s difficult to compare as it takes about 5 minutes to swap the phono stages. Both showed similar dynamics at similar volume settings on the Ref 6SE. I did notice changing from 100 to 200 ohm load setting on both phonos seemed to help.
What is the downside of using higher turns ratio/gain from the SUT? Does it cause an impedance mismatch for the cart to drive? Is it harder for the cart to drive?
If the MM input of the phono stage has a fixed impedance load of 47kΩ, the load seen by your cartridge will be roughly 47k/turns ratio² (plus cabling resistance which is negligible).
So a 1:10 SUT gives an effective load of 470Ω, a 1:15 gives 208Ω, and 1:30 gives 52Ω. That might make more change to the sound than the gain differences do.
Yes, and silly but true is, that SUT load should be lower than (pre)preamp loads.
Theoretically, 70Ω (factor 10) would optimal for a SUT, but depending on SUT brand final results may differ.
Hence my suggestion to try SUTs in a range from 1:26 to 1:33 in order to find your optimal match.
