Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[oldmustang]

The question I have on this is - do CM2 footers (or any other footers) make a positive difference on a pure DC power supply? It's one thing when there is AC and completely different when it's all DC. It may or may not. I don't know...

I don't know either, but I tend to think vibration control would still make a positive impact.

All you need to generate a voltage is to have a conductor, a magnetic field and relative motion between the two. Any current-carrying conductor supplies the magnetic field around it, and relative motion can be supplied by vibration. If this moving magnetic field intersects other conductors, be they wires, circuit traces or electronic components an unintended stray voltage can be induced in them.

Steve Z

 

[Taiko Audio]

I was under the impression that Munich would be the reveal of XDMS as well as the switch. It appears the BPS was the focus of Taiko's new products. Can we get a more granular estimate of when XDMS and the switch (and/or other products) will be commercialized? Gotta start saving those pennies now to plan accordingly.....

Hi Marty,

Yes that was the plan, however there are some instabilities in the new interface which were not yet fixed before the show, there are now 8 coders bug squashing with daily progress, it is imminent.

The network card and switch are both waiting on just one single component which was ordered 8 months ago with a back then estimated lead time of 6 months.

The BMS we had ready and we wanted to show atleast something, it’s not the focus, we have 17 projects running in parallel. The BMS/BPS is just a full solution for those who want to get away from fuse/powercord/powerconditioner swapping. Like the networkcard/switch/router are for those who want a full network solution. From our POV these are “just” optional accessories in a quest of being able to provide an environment with the same performance for everyone.

BTW I should add the whole BPS idea actually came to fruition after discussions with a few WBF members we should credit, @romaz , @austinpop , @nenon

 

[John T]

Well (deep subject) we have no choice but to be patient. Fortunately its only one part and not several for the network card and switch. The option of the BMS will be something for some to consider later. I like a company that doesn't just sit on their laurels. Many do! I'm pretty certain Taiko could just keep doing what they have been doing without expanding the potential. We are all attempting to achieve the same thing. As William Blake said: "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom"

 

[marty]

Emile
Thanks for the promptness and clarity of your reply. But shouldn't you all be drinking beer and eating schnitzel and sausage by now?
However, to address the fuse, power cord, conditioner points:

1) Although I am neurotic enough to spend hours changing metals on cable terminations and receptacles in an effort to obtain the most enjoyable sound, I draw the line at fuses. The way I see it, the fuse supplied with the unit ought to be darned good since you vetted it! If there was something better than stock, my guess is you would have used it.
2) Power Conditioner. A lot of wasted energy has gone into this one at my end but in the end, I think the best conditioner is no conditioner at all since they all have sonic trade-offs. It does require however, that one's basic electrical house wiring is configured properly. Easier said than done. (I credit ddk and Kingrex for those insights). However if the battery supply is a way to circumvent these potential issues, carry on! Extreme owners are waiting!
3) The Extreme sounds just fine (dare I say, outstanding) with a humble Ching Cheng PC. I'm tempted to try the Audioquest Hurricane as you suggested but I'm in no rush. Why spend money on a PC when there is a world of tubes to buy for my yet to be delivered Horizon?
Marty

 

[Zeotrope]

My take from Emile was different on this. It sounds like the original Extreme case design is going to go up significantly in expense, and that this "panel-wise" component build is an effort to reduce these galloping costs and preserve the original price point. Not sure it brings it down for broader affordability.

Well it brings the price down if the one and only current model is going up in price!

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile
Thanks for the promptness and clarity of your reply. But shouldn't you all be drinking beer and eating schnitzel and sausage by now?

No beers/schnitzels tonight, we are on our way back to Oldenzaal, eta early AM, we have the next batch of Extremes which have been burning in during the show to be packed and shipped out!

 

[dminches]

BTW I should add the whole BPS idea actually came to fruition after discussions with a few WBF members we should credit, @romaz , @austinpop , @nenon

Emile, you better be careful with those 3. Their ideas could bankrupt you. They have cost me a lot of money already.

 

[Zeotrope]

I think a lot of us here have “upgrade-itis”. If you read what Emile has said carefully, the battery power solution is an alternative to the current Extreme, that was driven by the need to maintain the current price. The existing model is increasing in price significantly.
I would bet that there is little sonic benefit to battery supply, since Emile has mentioned that the current Extreme does not benefit significantly from a power conditioner/regenerator (assuming your wall supply is decent) — such are the benefits of the built-in power supply and capacitor bank. And reading between the lines a bit, the battery supply unit will be less expensive to manufacture, which makes sense, given the cost of components in the elaborate built-in supply.
So don’t rush to assume it‘s an upgrade and that your current Extreme has somehow been surpassed — that was not the intention.

 

[fbhifi]

Well it brings the price down if the one and only current model is going up in price!

Convoluted logic but, well, OK…..

 

[EuroDriver]

I think a lot of us here have “upgrade-itis”. If you read what Emile has said carefully, the battery power solution is an alternative to the current Extreme, that was driven by the need to maintain the current price. The existing model is increasing in price significantly.
I would bet that there is little sonic benefit to battery supply, since Emile has mentioned that the current Extreme does not benefit significantly from a power conditioner/regenerator (assuming your wall supply is decent) — such are the benefits of the built-in power supply and capacitor bank. And reading between the lines a bit, the battery supply unit will be less expensive to manufacture, which makes sense, given the cost of components in the elaborate built-in supply.
So don’t rush to assume it‘s an upgrade and that your current Extreme has somehow been surpassed — that was not the intention.

Please read my post #10,656

Emile only undertakes a major engineering program when there is a clearly audible sonic uplift to be achieved ;-)

 

[Taiko Audio]

So don’t rush to assume it‘s an upgrade and that your current Extreme has somehow been surpassed. That was not the intention here.

I guess how much of an upgrade it is depends on your mains “quality”. It’s significant here. I do not use 50K in powercords/fuses/mains conditioning though and have not compared it to something like that.

This project has been about trying to match or exceed the dynamics of a mains powered linear supply. This will be reduced significantly with a off the shelf battery supply, even if it’s a very large 100lbs lifepo4 battery. Clarity and transparency are up with an off the shelf battery supply, but there is a slight harsh quality to the upper frequencies, a touch of mechanical sound to the midrange, the worst however is the bass is slower and muddier, this is very distracting as it does not match with the rest creating an inbalance.

As often the case this project evolved over time, turning into something more (extreme) then originally thought necessary, but we did succeed in achieving full satisfaction. What you see is something which is insane overkill. This can supply up to ~12.000 watts and run cool.

that was driven by the need to maintain the current price. The existing model is increasing in price significantly.

The Extreme chassis price just keeps rising, it does not look like this is going to get better, most likely even worse considering the current situation in Europe. I am convinced we have no choice to look into more modern production techniques and smarter manufacturing. The heatsinks displayed at the show are 3D printed, a single one matches the surface area of the huge heatsink of the Extreme, but uses 20% of the material.

 

[dminches]

I think a lot of us here have “upgrade-itis”. If you read what Emile has said carefully, the battery power solution is an alternative to the current Extreme, that was driven by the need to maintain the current price. The existing model is increasing in price significantly.
I would bet that there is little sonic benefit to battery supply, since Emile has mentioned that the current Extreme does not benefit significantly from a power conditioner/regenerator (assuming your wall supply is decent) — such are the benefits of the built-in power supply and capacitor bank. And reading between the lines a bit, the battery supply unit will be less expensive to manufacture, which makes sense, given the cost of components in the elaborate built-in supply.
So don’t rush to assume it‘s an upgrade and that your current Extreme has somehow been surpassed — that was not the intention.

Emile will have to comment but I don’t think they would bother to roll out a solution which didn’t sound better.

 

[Steve williams]

Emile will have to comment but I don’t think they would bother to roll out a solution which didn’t sound better.

Totally agree. I’ve said years ago the only way I will use a switch is if Emile designs one
Emile has never failed to deliver on his promises.XDMS would not be part of his plan if he didn’t feel he could better Roon. Heck TAS is even better than Roon

 

[adyc]

As often the case this project evolved over time, turning into something more (extreme) then originally thought necessary, but we did succeed in achieving full satisfaction. What you see is something which is insane overkill. This can supply up to ~12.000 watts and run cool.

Any plan to expand the BPS for uses with other devices beside Extreme like switches or other DC input devices?

 

[CKKeung]

Any plan to expand the BPS for uses with other devices beside Extreme like switches or other DC input devices?

A BPS with multiple DC outputs!

 

[ctydwn]

I had just been listening to Roon (since that bump in SQ ~3-4 months ago) in anticipation of XDMS and hadn’t been able to get TAS to work again. Given XDMS may take a bit longer than expected, any suggestions for resuscitating TAS?

I can see that initial blue line show up when trying to play a track in TAS, but the song never starts. Tried the usual things, restarting, rebooting, latest software, different players, etc Same issue from Qobuz or off Extreme direct. If anyone has run into this, thought I’d ask. Thanks again

 

[matthias]

A BPS with multiple DC outputs!

Maybe the UHQ 12kVA SMPS in the "new" Extreme offers DC outputs for other devices?

Matt

 

[Taiko Audio]

Any plan to expand the BPS for uses with other devices beside Extreme like switches or other DC input devices?

A BPS with multiple DC outputs!

It has 3 outputs and can be expanded to more

 

[Taiko Audio]

I had just been listening to Roon (since that bump in SQ ~3-4 months ago) in anticipation of XDMS and hadn’t been able to get TAS to work again. Given XDMS may take a bit longer than expected, any suggestions for resuscitating TAS?

I can see that initial blue line show up when trying to play a track in TAS, but the song never starts. Tried the usual things, restarting, rebooting, latest software, different players, etc Same issue from Qobuz or off Extreme direct. If anyone has run into this, thought I’d ask. Thanks again

You have to set the buffers to “auto” as per the instructions on the last page of the update manual, let us know if that causes you any trouble to execute, link: USB profile selection manual

 

[CKKeung]

It has 3 outputs and can be expanded to more

Hurray !!!