Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

@Taiko Audio dont blame you for missing my XDMS question in the middle of all the well justified network excitement - but:

Does XDMS drop into PCM transiently between each DSD track like TAS did?

Thanks so much!!

I never noticed that, isn’t that your DAC returning to default after a channel close?

@EuroDriver @Christiaan Punter any idea?

 

[seatrope]

I never noticed that, isn’t that your DAC returning to default after a channel close?

@EuroDriver @Christiaan Punter any idea?

Thanks @Taiko Audio Emile! It’s both with Pac and Horizon like you have. You may have noticed the occasional soft pop going from DSD to PCM using TAS. Interestingly with TAS it matters whether the preceding track was 48khz family or 44khz pcm. If it was 48 khz PCM family the noise is a bit more conspicuous but still not an issue. It seems like TAS is dropping back into whichever PCM mode (44 or 48 kHz) between DSD tracks.
I notice this in compassion with Roon where DSD tracks flow gapless and does not drop into PCM between DSD tracks.
Would love to know whether that still applies with XDMS.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks @Taiko Audio Emile! It’s both with Pac and Horizon like you have. You may have noticed the occasional soft pop going from DSD to PCM using TAS. Interestingly with TAS it matters whether the preceding track was 48khz family or 44khz pcm. If it was 48 khz PCM family the noise is a bit more conspicuous but still not an issue. It seems like TAS is dropping back into whichever PCM mode (44 or 48 kHz) between DSD tracks.
I notice this in compassion with Roon where DSD tracks flow gapless and does not drop into PCM between DSD tracks.
Would love to know whether that still applies with XDMS.

TAS doesn’t drop back to PCM but just closes the channel after playback (which with TAS is after every single track). Roon keeps the channel open and only changes the format on samplerate change. But I actually don’t know current XDMS behaviour as we have to divide our resources with everything going on here so we have to wait for either @EuroDriver or @Christiaan Punter to chime in. BTW I have never noticed this myself with either Pac or Horizon

 

[seatrope]

TAS doesn’t drop back to PCM but just closes the channel after playback (which with TAS is after every single track). Roon keeps the channel open and only changes the format on samplerate change. But I actually don’t know current XDMS behaviour as we have to divide our resources with everything going on here so we have to wait for either @EuroDriver or @Christiaan Punter to chime in. BTW I have never noticed this myself with either Pac or Horizon

Thanks Emile! Useful info. In the long run it is a very minor issue anyhow.

 

[EuroDriver]

Thanks Emile! Useful info. In the long run it is a very minor issue anyhow.

Hi Seatrope,

We have seen a few installations with dropouts, and it will be hunted down in due course. The main focus at the present time is App behavior, and Streaming service feature requirements

meanwhile we are also reworking the audio data plumbing and that could well have an influence on dropout behavior

 

[Kris]

Sorry missed this one but similar to the analogy in my reply to your previous post.

Let me share a tale on the subject. Once upon a time in our old workshop in Hengelo we had better sound disabling 5G and exclusively using 2.4G wireless networking. Spacing the single 2.4G access point as far away from the listening room as possible improved the sound even further. As we had bad Wi-Fi coverage because of that anyway we did't connect our phones to Wi-Fi which sounded even better!

When we moved to our new facilities in Oldenzaal we had a much larger area to cover, added more machines, needed better coverage and ended up installing an Ubiquity router, switches, multiple Wi-Fi 6 access points, people working here installing wireless internet radios, etc, etc. Before I knew it we had over 30 wireless devices active at all time. With the system up and running, when most of the dust of moving had settled, I thought to myself, hey let's revisit the 2.4G thing which had proven to be that successful in Hengelo. Imagine my surprise as this now worked the other way around. I invested more time, reconfiguring the router and access points, playing with it at night powering off all devices, big surprise, it simply was best using 5G and just having a lot of active devices on the network. Well "best" as in a reduction of a nasty glare & edginess but at the cost of lower overall levels of transparency AND reduced dynamics.

Now you can probably imagine in order to actually fully solve this "problem" a router where you have full control over its software is about the only way to get rid of the "glare" while simultaneously retaining or even improving transparency and dynamics. Though the switch really already solves a significant part of it..

And this is actually a big thing to keep in mind. A lot of network tweaks which "improve" the sound do so by making the sound more relaxing and easier to listen too, like releasing tension, and that can be perceived as a much better sound, no doubt. However, and this is something you may not notice right away or perhaps even at all, a reduction in dynamics, both micro and macro, often a smoothing effect in high frequencies, reducing dynamics there, and this has been a personal struggle for me for years with network tweaks, being able to achieve "better" sound at the cost of a reduction in dynamics, and ultimately reducing/smothering musical life. IMHO this is the ultimate pitfall of digital audio and actually not that far off from the compression applied by mastering engineers we have all come to despise, the wrong tool for the job but satisfactory to the large majority.

Great news . Thank you for explanation Emile.
As I read it . My listening room is still in Hengelo !
I did eactly 100 % of things you did . Crazy that I was eble to get to same conclusions.
I understant you are taking my room now to Oldenzaal remotely.

We all Will need your priceless advice how to setup the remaining thigs !

 

[2ndLiner]

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking reading through all of the recent posts. In particular, it is so refreshing having spent a lot of money on an item to suddenly and unexpectedly realise that a whole pathway of improvement lies ahead instead of just waiting to be superseded by newer, better models being released. It hugely reinforces my original purchase decision.

I mentioned the Extreme recently to an IT guy who is also a keen audiophile and he scoffed at the idea of a server being better than his laptop. Of course, bits is bits. Well, I firmly believe in the importance of the source and have been somewhat obsessed over the years with removing ‘noise’ from my streaming setup. Consequently, Extreme is my 4th music server since the first Melco N1-A, and each one has been a clear step up. If I had to start all over again and rebuild a system and could only keep one item, that one item would be the Extreme. It is now absolutely fundamental to my setup.

I did wonder at the hype I was reading when I first came across the Extreme, but I knew that I would not rest until I had heard one. I got one in to my home for a generous demo period from the UK distributor and, once heard, the decision was easy. I am very happy with mine right now, and I’m still only using Roon, so I have XDMS, Switch and Ethernet card to look forward to. It’s hard to imagine just where improvements can be made, but I do look forward to finding out.

A mind-blowing listening experience is in your near future!

 

[Malcng]

A mind-blowing listening experience is in your near future!

I am really looking forward to it and shall try my best to handle it all with calmness and dignity!

 

[Steve Williams]

I am really looking forward to it and shall try my best to handle it all with calmness and dignity!

all bets are off once you hear XDMS. If calmness and dignity involves the phrase "wtf did I just hear?" you're in for a real treat

 

[seatrope]

Sorry missed this one but similar to the analogy in my reply to your previous post.

Let me share a tale on the subject. Once upon a time in our old workshop in Hengelo we had better sound disabling 5G and exclusively using 2.4G wireless networking. Spacing the single 2.4G access point as far away from the listening room as possible improved the sound even further. As we had bad Wi-Fi coverage because of that anyway we did't connect our phones to Wi-Fi which sounded even better!

When we moved to our new facilities in Oldenzaal we had a much larger area to cover, added more machines, needed better coverage and ended up installing an Ubiquity router, switches, multiple Wi-Fi 6 access points, people working here installing wireless internet radios, etc, etc. Before I knew it we had over 30 wireless devices active at all time. With the system up and running, when most of the dust of moving had settled, I thought to myself, hey let's revisit the 2.4G thing which had proven to be that successful in Hengelo. Imagine my surprise as this now worked the other way around. I invested more time, reconfiguring the router and access points, playing with it at night powering off all devices, big surprise, it simply was best using 5G and just having a lot of active devices on the network. Well "best" as in a reduction of a nasty glare & edginess but at the cost of lower overall levels of transparency AND reduced dynamics.

Now you can probably imagine in order to actually fully solve this "problem" a router where you have full control over its software is about the only way to get rid of the "glare" while simultaneously retaining or even improving transparency and dynamics. Though the switch really already solves a significant part of it..

And this is actually a big thing to keep in mind. A lot of network tweaks which "improve" the sound do so by making the sound more relaxing and easier to listen too, like releasing tension, and that can be perceived as a much better sound, no doubt. However, and this is something you may not notice right away or perhaps even at all, a reduction in dynamics, both micro and macro, often a smoothing effect in high frequencies, reducing dynamics there, and this has been a personal struggle for me for years with network tweaks, being able to achieve "better" sound at the cost of a reduction in dynamics, and ultimately reducing/smothering musical life. IMHO this is the ultimate pitfall of digital audio and actually not that far off from the compression applied by mastering engineers we have all come to despise, the wrong tool for the job but satisfactory to the large majority.

Hi Emile! This is great to hear. I have the same concern as @Kris about Wi-Fi access points. But it seems like you have this ”solved” with the router.

However, what I don’t understand is that the router solves the issue of “noise on the line. What about the RF component radiated from the access point(s)?

 

[Malcng]

all bets are off once you hear XDMS. If calmness and dignity involves the phrase "wtf did I just hear?" you're in for a real treat

Your enthusiasm for XDMS surprises me Steve! I have been in no rush because I never felt I had a problem that needed fixing, but the enthusiastic response by you and others on here persuaded me to get on the list and I am waiting patiently and, hopefully, may get chance to hear it before the switch turns up.

 

[Steve Williams]

Your enthusiasm for XDMS surprises me Steve! I have been in no rush because I never felt I had a problem that needed fixing, but the enthusiastic response by you and others on here persuaded me to get on the list and I am waiting patiently and, hopefully, may get chance to hear it before the switch turns up.

As I said XDMS is beyond anything I’ve ever heard and it’s only going to get better

 

[Malcng]

As I said XDMS is beyond anything I’ve ever heard and it’s only going to get better

So I gather and, from Emile’s detailed explanation of the road ahead, it’s going to be a very enjoyable ride.

 

[ACHiPo]

as much as I wanted copper I am going chrome which I also think to be very attractive. I don't want to wait nor do I want to take chances with anodizing. It's not a show piece ....it's a switch and with Emile's comment not to place it on the floor the switch will occupy my CMS platform sitting on the shelf below the Extreme. I gather that the shortest cable length necessary is the one to use so I'm going with the 2 meter cable

This coming year is going to be quite amazing for Taiko as well as we users who have been sitting patiently in this thread gleaning information on all the new goodies to be arriving

Happy New Year to to Emile and the Taiko team as well as to everyone on this forum who help to make it the success it has become. To elucidate the impact of Emile and this thread , there have been in the past 24 hours over 250 posts and over 12 pages of new information which has piqued everyone's interest . This thread is the most read (over 2 million views) and the most posted to (13,943). Congrats to all things Taiko

Steve,
I think you play local files as well as stream? I’m looking forward to your impressions on the effect the switch has on sound quality of local file playback.
Evan

 

[ACHiPo]

I also don’t stream and yes, Emile assured us that the sound quality improves for local playback as well, with the new switch.

Look forward to your impressions on local file playback.

 

[RUIN*ish]

Length of wallwort cable?
Mn

 

[ACHiPo]

Switch with net card. It’s hard to express this in percentages but that is how I would rate it yes.

Wow that is indeed saying something.

 

[onlychild]

Hello Emile, with the network card, switch, and router (using the supplied wall warts instead of the BPS), how far off is the difference now between streaming and local playback?

XDMS was the first time ever I actually enjoyed streaming, but it still can’t match local playback.

 

[Steve Williams]

Hello Emile, with the network card, switch, and router (using the supplied wall warts instead of the BPS), how far off is the difference now between streaming and local playback?

XDMS was the first time ever I actually enjoyed streaming, but it still can’t match local playback.

Perhaps but TBH XDMS is getting so close that for my ears I would have difficulty picking one from the other 100% of the time. The bigger question in my opinion is how close XDMS is getting to vinyl and although it isn't there yet I am finding with each new uptick in the SQ that the boundaries are getting closer together

 

[soarsz]

Perhaps but TBH XDMS is getting so close that for my ears I would have difficulty picking one from the other 100% of the time. The bigger question in my opinion is how close XDMS is getting to vinyl and although it isn't there yet I am finding with each new uptick in the SQ that the boundaries are getting closer together