Taiko Audio XDMS - Extreme Direct Music Server Software

[Christiaan Punter]

...thanks @Christiaan Punter
That was what I was looking for to understand the "size" of the undertaking on my end. So, it is "in harmony" with XDMS, it sounds like, only it sounds like it's mo' better. Cheers...

NSM is indeed fully in harmony with XDMS More precisely, NSM is intended to become a fixed part of next XDMS iterations. As such, it is not top be seen as a separate entity but rather as a vital component of XDMS, which will eventually come along as part of the installer package.

 

[steve williams]

NSM is a further development of the data handling technique used to play music with XDMS. It achieves Sound Quality previously unachievable.

Having heard NSM, I can say that this is an understatement at the very least

 

[pleroma]

This is great news, and I'm happy for Taiko that the risky software development investment is going to pay off like this.

 

[steve williams]

This is great news, and I'm happy for Taiko that the risky software development investment is going to pay off like this.

Not so sure about the word risky. I would replace it with the word “expensive”. And all free for Extreme users. Truly an amazing company. I’m really looking forward to Emile’s presentation on Monday as I’m hoping this will be a prelude to our Christmas gift wish list

 

[cat6man]

it's time to shut down the hadron super-collider as temperatures approaching zero degrees kelvin are not the only way to make time slow down.

 

[cat6man]

this is an update to my post of 11/27 after installing the OS parameter settings optimization that was to be part of
NSM but was released separately as part of fixing (yet another) roon issue. the text has been updated to apply to the full NSM
software update which i was privileged to test yesterday. parts of this are similar to the earlier post in the old taiko mega-thread.

re-visiting my first SQ evaluation of the taiko extreme

[the beginning is excerpted from my Feb 2021 first impressions post]

summary:
the relaxed, easy presentation is very good...
however, i'm certain there is more to be obtained here...
once upon a time, i achieved what felt like audio nirvana with an even easier, more relaxed yet detailed presentation (but without the bass i get now).
i have to admit, in retrospect, that it was nothing but dumb luck that got me to that synergistic, holy &$! moment but clearly low noise, batteries, grounding,
maybe the clock achieved something that hit way way above it's weight. that digital network, for those interested, was hqp embedded running on a generic
ubuntu pc (shared with SageTV so also running my DVR and video streamer as well), cat 6 cable through a 24 port netgear router and 50ft cat 6 cable to a
microRendu (not ultra or optical) powered by a SoTM battery. usb out of the microRendu went to a SoTM txusbHD (a usb to aes/ebu) equipped with the super
clock option and also battery powered, to a TotalDAC d1-dual. MAGIC.........and then audio nirvana (an audio buddy said back then after hearing the system,
"you're done") was corrupted by audio nervosa and i 'upgraded' stuff and destroyed the best sounding system i had ever heard. i have spent years trying
to get back to that sound that i can still hear in my head and know is achievable, totally relaxed with infinite detail at the same time.

[update added 11/27] i'm convinced now that software changes/updates to both HQP and the microRendu led to the loss of "MAGIC"......who knew back then that software was so impactful to SQ.

to be clearer, the extreme has given me the best bass and best vocal projection i've ever heard, period. the soundstage and detail are top notch but
not YET the absolute best i've ever heard. when that is nailed, time seems to slow down as an infinite sequence of tiny details pop out of the silence
and your attention to (and awareness of) each one fills each second of music with more details than were ever obvious before, but in a completely
relaxed (and unobtrusive) manner.

i even have a couple of specific items i'm tracking on my way back to audio nirvana:
i hear a great jump factor with lead instruments (loud) but i think there could be more for sounds further down in the mix.
there could be a more relaxed, easy presentation of sound stage while maintaining infinite detail (e.g. guitar behind baez can have more delicacy and
detail of fingers on strings, more modulation and breath on vocal).
starting from something great, even greater can be expected. it's like being fortunate enough to attend an astonishing concert that forever colors your
views of what music can be (keith jarrett @ carnegie hall, grateful dead@watkins glen soundcheck, where you hang from every note in amazement and joy
at being so lucky)

with all the upgrades and focus on networking and real-time-optimized NUCs and cables, i have made many improvements but the MAGIC was still beyond the horizon.
the taiko extreme is the only thing that has brought me within sight of this holy grail and the discussion and evaluation on this forum was so consonant with
my search that i made the plunge for the most expensive audio purchase i have ever made..........and i have no regrets.

[update added 11/27] the NUC and streamer experiments followed in the path pioneered by RayDude, AustinPop and others, whom I followed over to WTB and this thread.
thanks guys!

i'm happy to be on the bus and truly looking forward to the continuing progress of this journey.
it's great to be in the hands of emile and team, who are clearly our leading experts in this field where EFTM.
[end of 2021 excerpt]
==============

[updated 12/11]
i can only try to add a little to Steve's excellent summary, though i have no need for dependz, just tissues for the tears of joy.

i believe background digital noise and shmutz have been lowered to an unprecedented level.
with the latest full update to XDMS (NMS software and OS parameter optimization), I can no longer see the light at the end of the tunnel, but have exited the tunnel into daylight,
with a real sense of the MAGIC and (most important to me) the slowing down of time itself (a relativistic observation, as of course YMMV) that i have been looking for.

after installation, i had only 30 minutes to listen because we were leaving to celebrate my mother-in-law's 95th birthday (for the
ethical sticklers amongst you, i only had brief thoughts of finding an excuse to stay home and listen to the music, but i must admit they did pop up occasionally).
using Stax SR-009 for my listening, as a first track i picked Basie's "It was a dream" and i knew
this was special in less than 10 seconds. the soundstage was wider and seemless, but the biggest thing to me was the slowing down of time, as previously unheard sounds low in the mix presented themselves in purely natural ways. the increase in perceived detail manifests itself to me as a slowing down of time itself, so that each instant lets me
follow the interactions between musicians and voices way down into the mix. in hearing more music, i have the feeling that time is slowing down to allow me to observe more sounds/music in what should be the same time interval.

i went through about 20 of my favorite test tracks and the MAGIC was there on every single track.
getting back home at 11:30 last night, i went straight to my listening chair and before i knew it, it was 1:30 in the morning. i had started to move outside of my test tracks and when i started to play an album, i couldn't bring myself to stop until the entire album was over. repeatedly, i heard details in the music mix that were not obvious and very very tasty. background vocals in the back of the mix were beautifully rendered all the way down to their decay and echo after each phrase (e.g.
the remastered Wake of the Floor track 'half-step mississippi uptown toodle-oo'--listen to donna's background vocal). the music is so hard to ignore when there is so much to hear and i'm a sucker for musicians who listen to each other and improvise and play counterpoint. now i can follow the guitar and bass vocal simultaneously while joan baez sings 'its all over now
baby blue'. on complicated/dense mixes like zappa's "montana', the sludgy sound is broken down to its components which allows me to hear the zappa's complex instrumentation/components that i didn't hear previously.

this is the first time the extreme has fully equalled, and in many ways surpassed, that sound i harp on that i accidentally discovered years ago but lost when software changed (and have mentioned in other posts). once heard, it can not be unheard. every track i played. any caveats? absolutely none here and i could happily live with this as my end game system.
my best way to summarize this is to say that 'if things get any better, my head will explode'.....in a very good way.;

with the BPS and XDMI interface still to come, i can only imagine what a further drop in the noise floor and even more MAGIC would sound like, given taiko's track record and our consonant listening experiences.
previous updates to tas and xdms and the switch and router have all made clear improvements to the sound chez moi, but this is in another league.

I believe that this next generation XDMS-NMS achieves end game (or damn close) levels of performance.
My gut feeling from a few years ago was that Taiko was on to something, and that they really knew what they were doing scientifically and empirically, has been more than validated........now back to music.
everyone will want this (imnsho). as bobV at rhapsody told me back when i was considering my largest ever purchase of audio equipment without a demo or listening test, 'no one has ever wanted to return one, i think you'll be happy'.
i can't imagine anyone being unhappy with the peak the taiko extreme has reached here.

Thank you Emile, Ed and the rest of team Taiko.

 

[DW101]

I already can feel the mail server at Oldenzaal breaking down with people trying to get on the list.

Ed, please make sure you wear your Santa outfit when doing the NSM installs for the full Taiko Christmas wonderland experience. Santa never had a soothing voice as Edward! ??

Yes, let me know who to bribe to get on that list...

 

[steve williams]

this is an update to my post of 11/27 after installing the OS parameter settings optimization that was to be part of
NSM but was released separately as part of fixing (yet another) roon issue. the text has been updated to apply to the full NSM
software update which i was privileged to test yesterday. parts of this are similar to the earlier post in the old taiko mega-thread.

re-visiting my first SQ evaluation of the taiko extreme

[the beginning is excerpted from my Feb 2021 first impressions post]

summary:
the relaxed, easy presentation is very good...
however, i'm certain there is more to be obtained here...
once upon a time, i achieved what felt like audio nirvana with an even easier, more relaxed yet detailed presentation (but without the bass i get now).
i have to admit, in retrospect, that it was nothing but dumb luck that got me to that synergistic, holy &$! moment but clearly low noise, batteries, grounding,
maybe the clock achieved something that hit way way above it's weight. that digital network, for those interested, was hqp embedded running on a generic
ubuntu pc (shared with SageTV so also running my DVR and video streamer as well), cat 6 cable through a 24 port netgear router and 50ft cat 6 cable to a
microRendu (not ultra or optical) powered by a SoTM battery. usb out of the microRendu went to a SoTM txusbHD (a usb to aes/ebu) equipped with the super
clock option and also battery powered, to a TotalDAC d1-dual. MAGIC.........and then audio nirvana (an audio buddy said back then after hearing the system,
"you're done") was corrupted by audio nervosa and i 'upgraded' stuff and destroyed the best sounding system i had ever heard. i have spent years trying
to get back to that sound that i can still hear in my head and know is achievable, totally relaxed with infinite detail at the same time.

[update added 11/27] i'm convinced now that software changes/updates to both HQP and the microRendu led to the loss of "MAGIC"......who knew back then that software was so impactful to SQ.

to be clearer, the extreme has given me the best bass and best vocal projection i've ever heard, period. the soundstage and detail are top notch but
not YET the absolute best i've ever heard. when that is nailed, time seems to slow down as an infinite sequence of tiny details pop out of the silence
and your attention to (and awareness of) each one fills each second of music with more details than were ever obvious before, but in a completely
relaxed (and unobtrusive) manner.

i even have a couple of specific items i'm tracking on my way back to audio nirvana:
i hear a great jump factor with lead instruments (loud) but i think there could be more for sounds further down in the mix.
there could be a more relaxed, easy presentation of sound stage while maintaining infinite detail (e.g. guitar behind baez can have more delicacy and
detail of fingers on strings, more modulation and breath on vocal).
starting from something great, even greater can be expected. it's like being fortunate enough to attend an astonishing concert that forever colors your
views of what music can be (keith jarrett @ carnegie hall, grateful dead@watkins glen soundcheck, where you hang from every note in amazement and joy
at being so lucky)

with all the upgrades and focus on networking and real-time-optimized NUCs and cables, i have made many improvements but the MAGIC was still beyond the horizon.
the taiko extreme is the only thing that has brought me within sight of this holy grail and the discussion and evaluation on this forum was so consonant with
my search that i made the plunge for the most expensive audio purchase i have ever made..........and i have no regrets.

[update added 11/27] the NUC and streamer experiments followed in the path pioneered by RayDude, AustinPop and others, whom I followed over to WTB and this thread.
thanks guys!

i'm happy to be on the bus and truly looking forward to the continuing progress of this journey.
it's great to be in the hands of emile and team, who are clearly our leading experts in this field where EFTM.
[end of 2021 excerpt]
==============

[updated 12/11]
i can only try to add a little to Steve's excellent summary, though i have no need for dependz, just tissues for the tears of joy.

i believe background digital noise and shmutz have been lowered to an unprecedented level.
with the latest full update to XDMS (NMS software and OS parameter optimization), I can no longer see the light at the end of the tunnel, but have exited the tunnel into daylight,
with a real sense of the MAGIC and (most important to me) the slowing down of time itself (a relativistic observation, as of course YMMV) that i have been looking for.

after installation, i had only 30 minutes to listen because we were leaving to celebrate my mother-in-law's 95th birthday (for the
ethical sticklers amongst you, i only had brief thoughts of finding an excuse to stay home and listen to the music, but i must admit they did pop up occasionally).
using Stax SR-009 for my listening, as a first track i picked Basie's "It was a dream" and i knew
this was special in less than 10 seconds. the soundstage was wider and seemless, but the biggest thing to me was the slowing down of time, as previously unheard sounds low in the mix presented themselves in purely natural ways. the increase in perceived detail manifests itself to me as a slowing down of time itself, so that each instant lets me
follow the interactions between musicians and voices way down into the mix. in hearing more music, i have the feeling that time is slowing down to allow me to observe more sounds/music in what should be the same time interval.

i went through about 20 of my favorite test tracks and the MAGIC was there on every single track.
getting back home at 11:30 last night, i went straight to my listening chair and before i knew it, it was 1:30 in the morning. i had started to move outside of my test tracks and when i started to play an album, i couldn't bring myself to stop until the entire album was over. repeatedly, i heard details in the music mix that were not obvious and very very tasty. background vocals in the back of the mix were beautifully rendered all the way down to their decay and echo after each phrase (e.g.
the remastered Wake of the Floor track 'half-step mississippi uptown toodle-oo'--listen to donna's background vocal). the music is so hard to ignore when there is so much to hear and i'm a sucker for musicians who listen to each other and improvise and play counterpoint. now i can follow the guitar and bass vocal simultaneously while joan baez sings 'its all over now
baby blue'. on complicated/dense mixes like zappa's "montana', the sludgy sound is broken down to its components which allows me to hear the zappa's complex instrumentation/components that i didn't hear previously.

this is the first time the extreme has fully equalled, and in many ways surpassed, that sound i harp on that i accidentally discovered years ago but lost when software changed (and have mentioned in other posts). once heard, it can not be unheard. every track i played. any caveats? absolutely none here and i could happily live with this as my end game system.
my best way to summarize this is to say that 'if things get any better, my head will explode'.....in a very good way.;

with the BPS and XDMI interface still to come, i can only imagine what a further drop in the noise floor and even more MAGIC would sound like, given taiko's track record and our consonant listening experiences.
previous updates to tas and xdms and the switch and router have all made clear improvements to the sound chez moi, but this is in another league.

I believe that this next generation XDMS-NMS achieves end game (or damn close) levels of performance.
My gut feeling from a few years ago was that Taiko was on to something, and that they really knew what they were doing scientifically and empirically, has been more than validated........now back to music.
everyone will want this (imnsho). as bobV at rhapsody told me back when i was considering the largest purchase of audio equipment without a demo or listening test, 'no one has ever wanted to return one, i think you'll be happy'.
i can't imagine anyone being unhappy with the peak the taiko extreme has reached here.

Thank you Emile, Ed and the rest of team Taiko.

I'm glad that people cannot say that Im drinking the Kool Aid. NSM is truly the biggest sonic improvement I have ever heard in digital playback. It truly gets one so close to the source so welcome to being number 7 Marty . I look forward to what I am hoping for end game announcements by Emile on Wednesday but until then I continue to pinch myself that I am to dreaming

 

[steve williams]

@cat6man

Marty I know exactly what you meant when you stated your feelings after queuing up the first song. The overall improvement hits you with the very first note. I truly was in my seat an entire day. Some minor bugs to fix such as the inoperable forward button but there is still an easy way to forward to a desired track in queue. The other thing I noticed was the absence of a library search button in "library" as well a not being able to do a library search from the global search button at the bottom of the control app as it now seems to search only Qobuz and Tidal. I am betting these are easy things to iron out. For me it doesn't matter as I am so mesmerized by what I am hearing. The sound floor is so low that my preamp gain has permanently gone down by one detente position. In fact I have never had the gain on my preamp so low yet the sound simply knocks you off your feet. the sense of presence from ambient sound truly makes it a "you are there experience" or even better "they are here"

I look forward to the new NSM control app

 

[steve williams]

Pursuant to my post above, my phone and PM's have all lit up asking me questions about NSM. I understand the drooling everyone is experiencing and that was never my intent nor do I think it to be the intent of Marty to dangle NSM above everyone so here is what I would like to do. I know that there are many Extreme users in my neck of the woods (Southern California) as well as the Pacific Northwest etc. For anyone who would like to hear NSM, I am happily retired and can certainly make myself and my room available to anyone who wants to take a day trip from your home to mine I will make it happen. It would be my pleasure. If you want to fly in for a day John Waye airport is the easiest as I am but a 20 minute drove south of the airport. NSM is something that is so visceral it needs to be experienced. I see NSM as being but a step or two away from being end game based on the announcements we are all hoping to hear on Wednesday from Emile.

Finally if coming in to hear NSM is difficult and people want to hear the Gantseh Megillah it is still my hope and intent to do at my house what I did a year ago for Lukasz when we did a global soft launch over a weekend at my home. I sense Emile has finalized the BPS into two versions and I am hoping to be an owner so that we can do a similar soft launch whenever Emile feels it can come to fruition. I think this now will probably not happen until at least March of the coming year. But all good things are worth waiting for. Plus I already have an RSVP list of close to 40 people whoo have expressed desire to attend

 

[cat6man]

Yes, let me know who to bribe to get on that list...

as an alpha tester, i suspect that will be coming to you soon as they are working on an installer to automate the installation process. the manual installation by Emile and Ed does not scale up well

edit--unless wednesday's announcement is that they have made a breakthrough in cloning technology and dozens of Ed's will be amongst us soon.

 

[MusicFellow]

Yes, let me know who to bribe to get on that list...

It‘s not me, that’s for sure!

 

[steve williams]

I thought a Gene Roddenberry quote sums up NSM

"NSM The Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Extreme. Her continuing mission, to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations. To Boldly Go Where No Man... Where No One Has Gone Before"

 

[nenon]

Posted the below in the wrong Taiko thread, so here is it in the right place this time:

Speaking of bass, here is what I sent to Ed yesterday:

The first and the most obvious difference I heard (after installing NSM) was in the bass. Bass is so different (and so good) - it’s like switching from tube to solid state bass (in a good way) - fast, dynamic, firm, authoritative, tight, deep, but also very textured and super vibrant and lively.

It’s a common thing in audio to say that we have removed a curtain between the listener and the musicians… We never mean that for bass. I don’t know what the equivalent of that would be for bass, but if you can imagine it, that’s what I heard.

That amazing bass forms the foundation of the music and everything I’ve tried so far sounds better. Music is more engaging and more expansive. It has a sense of deeper, livelier, and bigger stage.
It made me want to dig into some albums I like but rarely listen to because they are not well recorded. They sound much more engaging.

From my experience, bass is one of the most difficult things to get right in digital. I have a decent analog rig consisting of Kronos Pro turntable with all the available bells and whistles, Kronos Discovery RS tonearm, ZYX Universe II cartridge, and the top-of-the-line silver Ypsilon phono stage / silver Ypsilon SUT. I also have a Studer reel to reel. For years the bass in my digital could not rival the bass on my analog. Things have turned 180 degrees and currently the bass from my analog rig sounds bloated next to NSM. I guess it’s time to step up my analog game, but the motivation is not very high.

Some time ago, I took a Gryphon amplifier to audition in my house. The Gryphon did something exceptional to the bass in my system. It made me listen to all kinds of albums I never listen to. I liked it a lot. But it lacked the open midrange of my SET tube mono blocks. So, I returned the Gryphon and went back to my tube mono blocks. But that was an experience I never forgot.
The NSM upgrade reminds me a lot of that experience with Gryphon but without any of the negatives.

There are many other things I have noticed. But the two main one’s worth mentioning were vocals and 3D imaging.
Vocals – When comparing vocals between NMS and Roon, they sound veiled in Roon.
Same with 3D focus – NSM stays focused. Everything sounds more realistic, palpable, and 3D in NMS. With Roon, vocals and instruments seem to wander around in comparison.

Everything sounds so much more coherent and enjoyable with NSM. And certainly better than Roon in almost every aspect.
Well, as you might have guessed already, all I am trying to say is that the hype is real!

There is only one area that left me a bit puzzled. With Roon I get more high frequency / high-midrange energy. I know for a fact that a lot of this is noise from my mains as it changes throughout the day/night. I have also tried powering my entire system with giant batteries and all that extra HF energy dissapears. So, I think NSM is actually taking care of most of this HF noise in my system, which leads to darker background, better vocal, more 3D, and all the good stuff. But I am still getting used to this and wondering if there is just a tad bit more energy that I hear when I listen to live music. Or perhaps I just need to fine tune my system at this point with different cables, tubes, power cords, etc. This is all nitpicking... a small drop in an ocean. I really enjoy the upgrade and the hype is indeed real.

Going back to the bass, though. I've heard some comments from Emile about how good the bass is with TACDA/BPS (or do we call it XDMI now? I guess I'll find out tomorrow). But not for NMS. So, I reached out to Emile to check with him on that. He said... I never quote Emile's private conversations here, but I think this short message is worth sharing... he said: "Yeah similar difference, just times 10 with tacda/bps".
I think that's a good place to end my post ... as I am speechless after this comment...

Excellent job, Taiko Team! Thank you Ed for giving me the opportunity to hear this magical upgrade.

 

[steve williams]

• Add bookmark
• #42

There are many other things I have noticed. But the two main one’s worth mentioning were vocals and 3D imaging.
Vocals – When comparing vocals between NMS and Roon, they sound veil in Roon.
Same with 3D focus – NSM stays focused. Everything sounds more realistic, palpable, and 3D in NMS. With Roon, vocals and instruments seem to wander around in comparison.

That is exactly my impression. The day before I got NSM, I compared Roon and XDMS and I said Roon sounds excellent and it becomes a matter of taste and preference. However with NSM, Roon now sounds veiled and somewhat grainy. There is somewhat of a Roon presentation only much better than Roon.

So only 24hours to the big announcement which we have all been awaiting.....I'm hoping it will be the icing on the cake with BPS. There is no question in my mind that the biggest sonic uptick so far has been NSM BUT Emile says the very largest uptick comes with BPS. and I'm all in.

 

[Rhapsody]

• Today at 6:56 AM
• Add bookmark
• #36

I have NSM. Ed loaded it literally in 5 minutes. I was in another room and the system came on after Ed chose an album. I said to Ed, thinking it would take longer for him to load NSM, "Ed this must be NSM already (from the other room).

NSM (in my system) is not better than XDMS or Roon. It is an entirely different experience. As much as a different room or a different system. A MUCH better room or a MUCH better system.

Have to listen and get my head around it. You could tell from the first notes FROM THE OTHER ROOM.

BRAVO AGAIN to Emile/ED/TEAM!!!!!

 

[Rhapsody]

• Today at 10:25 AM
• Add bookmark
• #38

Starting to get my head around NSM. The bass is SO prodigious as in bulk and causing amazement or wonder, that I would think in certain systems speaker placement and other adjustments (especially if subs are in the system) will have to be adjusted to accommodate the new found bass. If you don't have subs, you will think you got new subs when NSM is played.

Clarity in midrange and upper frequencies are startling. The vocals along with the bass stand out to the point where it's hard to imagine that you are really hearing what you are hearing.

NSM is EVERYTHING that it was predicted to be. imho. ymmv (but I doubt it)

Edit- Qobuz/Tidal sound far better than files sounded with XDMS or Roon via NSM. Hard to believe that streaming is playing. Files sound amazing BUT a well recorded album coming from Qobuz/Tidal sound so good that you really think it has to be a file playing. This is the biggest surprise for me.

Last edited: Today at 10:31 AM

 

[theaudiogeek]

Excited after reading the feedback from the users of NSM. Hoping to experience NSM soon..

 

[John T]

Its so cool listening to the feedback from Bob @Rhapsody, Steve @Steve Williams, @nenon and Marty @cat6man. Through their description you can almost visualize the expression of wonderment in what they are hearing/deciphering...

 

[steve williams]

Its so cool listening to the feedback from Bob @Rhapsody, Steve @Steve Williams, and Marty @cat6man. Through their description you can almost visualize the expression of wonderment in what they are hearing/deciphering...

I precede each session now with a dose of Imodium-AD