IMHO the "the law of diminishing returns" still applies. However our particular individual exponential sensitivity to some small changes and our irrational love to this hobby compensates for it.
Taiko Tana-LPS-Setchi---listening
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
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IMHO the "the law of diminishing returns" still applies. However our particular individual exponential sensitivity to some small changes and our irrational love to this hobby compensates for it.
Thank you very much for your replies to my questions. I am happy to know the power supply can be purchased on a stand-alone basis.
But this sounds like an overly bullish argument for Bitcoin.
But this sounds like an overly bullish argument for Bitcoin.
trying to keep this simple and brief,
the Tripoint Elite (the Troy Sig is similar but not the same) is about weight and energy, along with natural tone and lowered noise. like a prism filtering out the sense of reproduction and leaving music and emotional involvement. it's a profound degree of effect.....not subtle.
the Taiko Tana/LPS/Setchi is about levels of detail, texture and ambient space definition. it resolves incongruities in the musical flow and completes the picture, separates things better and adds ease to musical peaks, and allows for the bass to fully decay and have more natural snap and slam. also seems to filter out any sense of the reproduction process, and any sense that there are speakers or amps or a system even. again; not a subtle effect.
the two seem to compliment each other and if i was choosing one or the other.......i could not do that right now. and i have no plans of needing to do that. maybe the only other thing i would say is that you can make a case for the Taiko Tana as a fundamental piece of a system to start with. whereas i see the Tripoint as a complimentary 'finishing touch' sort of product after you have done the heavy lifting sorting out a system. having the Tripoint in a system from the beginning might hold you back from finding the best of the gear or even the right gear. it has too much of it's own direction. not that it's colored, but it does certainly have a presence.
this is just my own opinion, based on my experience and personal room and system situation. YMMV. i'm sure we will hear from Audiocrack for his alternate viewpoint on the Tripoint. and his perspective is correct based on his situation. we are maybe both right for our own reasons.
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That’s a great summary, Mike.
Troy/Elite: weight/density/tone.
Tana: detail/texture/ambience.
The interesting thing I’d say is that what you seem to get from the Tana is what I get from my Entreq.
Ie that Entreq and Troy indeed might both be ground boxes, but are achieving different things. Now, this is where my q is unfair, because in effect both tweaks are getting all these things, it’s just how individual systems are resolving/highlighting these things.
But it’s illuminating to hear you say Troy/Elite on the density side, Tana on the air side.
And both invaluable.
Troy/Elite: weight/density/tone.
Tana: detail/texture/ambience.
The interesting thing I’d say is that what you seem to get from the Tana is what I get from my Entreq.
Ie that Entreq and Troy indeed might both be ground boxes, but are achieving different things. Now, this is where my q is unfair, because in effect both tweaks are getting all these things, it’s just how individual systems are resolving/highlighting these things.
But it’s illuminating to hear you say Troy/Elite on the density side, Tana on the air side.
And both invaluable.
Marc, you can point finger at me and laugh at my face now for making fun of you about putting the Stacore under Entreq. Mike is putting his magic footers under his Tripoint and get good result too.
Or maybe Mike is cursed with vibration kharma too.
Tang
Or maybe Mike is cursed with vibration kharma too
.Tang
Tang, no finger pointing. Mike and I are going down the Rabbit Hole, like Alice. Now my weaknesses at the limit of what I can afford are Stacores/Symposium Rollerblocks and Entreq, Mike’s are Tana/Herzan/Trinia and Troy/Elite.
As for you Tang, all those tts, arms and carts is SOMEWHAT crazy, and you’re not happy just staying w Troy, now going Scherzingher too.
As for you Tang, all those tts, arms and carts is SOMEWHAT crazy, and you’re not happy just staying w Troy, now going Scherzingher too.
Hi Marc,
Imho the biggest thing here is:
This is something you simply need to hear to be able to appreciate I guess. It sure has gotten us very excited.
Taiko, Mike has been posting for so long, he’s probably forgotten some of the epiphanies he had going from one level to the next.
But he’s often mentioned increases in “continuousness”.
Maybe Tana is not so unique here, but provides the biggest leap in this direction.
Stacore is doing a lot on the continuousness front in my system, and I’m happy not to look beyond. And an undeniable fact is that since I’ve made a decision to place platforms under 7 components, Tana is out of my price range, as is Troy Elite.
Stacore/Symposium Rollerblocks/Entreq is right at my limit as it is.
But he’s often mentioned increases in “continuousness”.
Maybe Tana is not so unique here, but provides the biggest leap in this direction.
Stacore is doing a lot on the continuousness front in my system, and I’m happy not to look beyond. And an undeniable fact is that since I’ve made a decision to place platforms under 7 components, Tana is out of my price range, as is Troy Elite.
Stacore/Symposium Rollerblocks/Entreq is right at my limit as it is.
Marc, actually, I'm pretty sure your flooring system is simply not meeting the requirements for active isolation to work well, if at all. Imho you are on the right track with your platform choice.
You might be right Taiko.
Look, the last thing I want to do is hijack this thread, it’s about Tana not Stacore. But I strongly believe potential customers should a/b both. Both Tana and Stacore it seems are available on no quibble sale or return trials, and Herzan and Minus K are available in most territories.
I remain confident Stacore brings unique things to the party to produce the results it attains. I don’t think it’s quite as simple as saying active isolation is not suited to a suspended wooden floor. If that was really the case, one wouldn’t recommend active for any flr other than a solid concrete one.
Look, the last thing I want to do is hijack this thread, it’s about Tana not Stacore. But I strongly believe potential customers should a/b both. Both Tana and Stacore it seems are available on no quibble sale or return trials, and Herzan and Minus K are available in most territories.
I remain confident Stacore brings unique things to the party to produce the results it attains. I don’t think it’s quite as simple as saying active isolation is not suited to a suspended wooden floor. If that was really the case, one wouldn’t recommend active for any flr other than a solid concrete one.
Thanks for such an elaborate and well though analysis - it goes in line with my feelings about electro and mechanical tweaks, but much better expressed than I could do.
Can I ask you if you notice any kind of burn-in effect with active tables, particularly when used with DACs or electronics?
Francisco, one great thing about the active Kuraka and passive Stacore I trialled was that they literally work out of the box, 100% the moment you start listening. That’s a joy compared to cable burn in, Entreq bedding in etc. And why it’s so easy to do an a/b and be immediately sure of results.
Marc, this is actually exactly the manufacturers recommendation. We have also verified this by testing ourselves. I have posted about it before. It is a precision instrument which operates in a range which falls below the excursion of your floor. You need a brute force solution. We are really comparing apples to oranges here.
Going against all common sense, yes we have observed a change similar to the burn-in associated effects of any other piece of electronic equipment being a part of your system.
Thanks, for me it does not go against common sense ... You just have to think in a different, more encompassing way.
Mike and Christian need to chime in here, what floor construction do they have?
Btw, I wouldn’t call Stacore brute force, more like the Hulk offering a daisy to a little old lady .
Btw, I wouldn’t call Stacore brute force, more like the Hulk offering a daisy to a little old lady .
It's frequency dependant, it tops out at 20 micrometres from 0-20Hz, declines to about 5 micrometres at 100Hz. There are competing tables using electro magnetic motors which can handle a larger excursion but obviously this influences settling times, damping etc, comparable to a loudspeaker driver with mass, motor strength, excursion
yes, i do notice what i would call 'settling' or 'burn-in' with the Tana, as well as the stock TS units. i also notice it somewhat with the Hardpoints. i'm sure there is a 'bit' of human bonding to the new change too, as much as i fight that notion. like looking at a picture or painting and noticing subtle detail aspects of it after a minute or two. it was all there to begin with but you don't notice everything right away. and the music is dynamic (changing) so there is that part too.
over the first 30-90 minutes or so after the gear is disturbed there is a gradual relaxing and deeper musical touch. it could be warm up of the gear too which was disturbed. but the majority of the change is immediately realized, it's just more a raw change and not quite as nuanced as it will become. the effect is subtle for sure, but noticeable.
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