TAS Alexia review (December 2013 issue)

[MadFloyd]

Well, no speaker is perfect and measurements in Stereophile aside, the Alexias have all the potential to sound great and that's what matters to most of us.

 

[Orb]

Now how much of a difference would it make that JA takes into account both direct and reflected sound in his measurements whereas I believe the NRC is in a anaechoic chamber? That in part accounts for the falling FR at high frequencies.

Yeah I do feel both are needed for it to be of any use to us audio hobbyists.
The benefit of the NRC IMO really shines in terms of its full anechoic measurement which is superior to the quasi ones most publications can only do; I assume NRC are also able to measure the bass correctly that again is an issue for nearly every publication that does not have access to such a test environment to lift the speaker off the floor (that is also integral to the anechoic room).
Cheers
Orb

 

[ack]

Yes that room was at innovative, during a day business trip. Piano, among other things I played, was just flawed with overblown lower registers (like everything else in that region), short decay, etc.

 

[jap]

Yes that room was at innovative, during a day business trip. Piano, among other things I played, was just flawed with overblown lower registers (like everything else in that region), short decay, etc.

It looks like both the Alexias and the Sashas were still on their caster.

The Sashas should have been move out of the way and the "overblown lower register" is exactly what every Wilson I've heard sounds like when they're on a rug and not spiked.

BTW, here's a picture of JA's room when he was reviewing the WA Sophia in 2002:

http://www.stereophile.com/images/imagecache/960-wide/photopost/data/2/31Wilson-502.jpg

 

[ack]

The Alexias were spiked, the Sashas on casters

 

[jap]

The Alexias were spiked, the Sashas on casters

Then I guess they're just not the right speakers for you.

 

[microstrip]

Would had helped if they were not going for a sensationalist narrative, because in reality at JA's room it was 4dB down from 300 Hz to 500Hz where flat including then to 1.5KHz, and then the peak trait that started flat from 1.5KHz and peaked at 2KHz with +4dB; to see how much is the room look at other speaker reviews JA has done.

To get a feel for its response in a room, ideally would need several different reviews (different speakers same room) and critically other reviewer's room (for that same speaker model) measurements and see if traits can then be identified along with the quasi-anechoic or more ideally the NRC measurements done in Canada.
That said some speakers will measure better at a specific distance rather than 1m driver measurement due to their design (with regards to quasi/true anechoic measurements).

Just my take anyway.
Cheers
Orb

Orb,

Your good sense and knowledge is spoiling the pleasure of the people who love bashing Wilson speakers. As you said this feature of JA room has appeared even in the measurements of the Magico Q5, that show a -7 dB at 300 Hz relative to 5KHz.

A professional reviewer that makes such comments on a " trace (that) was generated by averaging 20 1?6-octave–smoothed spectra, taken for the left and right speakers individually using SMUGSoftware's FuzzMeasure 3.0 program and a 96kHz sample rate, in a vertical rectangular grid 36" wide by 18" high and centered on the positions of my ears.(quoting Stereophile)" without checking the room, at minimum is loosing any credibility.

People who want to see another in room averaged set of measurements can look at Martin Colloms review in HifiCritic - they are very good.

Wilson and Magico speakers get similar reactions from people - those who manage to listen to them in excellent condition appreciate and even love them , those who unfortunately did not are strongly polarized against them. IMHO both brands can be used to build excellent sounding systems.

And yes, on the measurement side Magico wins - as there are no valid sets of public measurements of their more charismatic speakers (the Q3 and the Q7) no one can criticize them on their non-existent measurements.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Orb,

Your good sense and knowledge is spoiling the pleasure of the people who love bashing Wilson speakers. As you said this feature of JA room has appeared even in the measurements of the Magico Q5, that show a -7 dB at 300 Hz relative to 5KHz.

A professional reviewer that makes such comments on a " trace (that) was generated by averaging 20 1?6-octave–smoothed spectra, taken for the left and right speakers individually using SMUGSoftware's FuzzMeasure 3.0 program and a 96kHz sample rate, in a vertical rectangular grid 36" wide by 18" high and centered on the positions of my ears.(quoting Stereophile)" without checking the room, at minimum is loosing any credibility.

People who want to see another in room averaged set of measurements can look at Martin Colloms review in HifiCritic - they are very good.

Wilson and Magico speakers get similar reactions from people - those who manage to listen to them in excellent condition appreciate and even love them , those who unfortunately did not are strongly polarized against them. IMHO both brands can be used to build excellent sounding systems.

And yes, on the measurement side Magico wins - as there are no valid sets of public measurements of their more charismatic speakers (the Q3 and the Q7) no one can criticize them on their non-existent measurements.

You and Orb make a good point. Why isn't the room's FR included then in every chart as a control?

 

[Steve williams]

You and Orb make a good point. Why isn't the room's FR included then in every chart as a control?

That is a very interesting suggestion

 

[microstrip]

You and Orb make a good point. Why isn't the room's FR included then in every chart as a control?

Room FR will vary a lot according to speaker placement - sometimes even a small change in toe-in will change it. Although they are averaged over small listening zone, these measurements are not predictable and easy to interpret per se - IMHO JA intention with this particular graph was only showing the effect of the tweeter resistors, not mid bass response.

Many people that have excellent sounding systems will not show in public their room measurements, as they will be misinterpreted. Although I can make my room sound reasonably flat it will not correspond to the best sound.

 

[microstrip]

Yes that room was at innovative, during a day business trip. Piano, among other things I played, was just flawed with overblown lower registers (like everything else in that region), short decay, etc.

Then I understand your comment. But, in all fairness, you should look for better conditions to have a proper idea of the Alexia sound quality. Do you consider that David Wilson, that has recorded some excellent piano and violin recitals and has a Yamaha grand piano in the the room where he listened to the Alexia's during their development, could develop a speaker than does not play correctly the piano lower registers? And that reviewers who write "Piano reproduction is particularly good, and I shall not easily forget what it did for Evgeny Kissin playing Chopin sonatas with the full 250W peak programme drive of the D’Agostino Momentums " and similar things do not know how the piano lower registers sound?

 

[ack]

Frankly, I don't care what reviewers say, therefore you won't easily catch me citing a review. I think the most relevant comment here is from Myles, who would be more familiar with the room: I heard the Sashas in there with the D'Agostino amps and the sound was well......

Considering that folks here I know do run Spectral and Sashas successfully at home, it would seem to me that, more realistically, the real issue here is that that dealer's rooms are not very good. On the other hand, I report what I hear, cold and dry.

 

[Bruce B]

Many people that have excellent sounding systems will not show in public their room measurements, as they will be misinterpreted. Although I can make my room sound reasonably flat it will not correspond to the best sound.

But measurements do show the potential for the room and folks can get a grasp of what the reviewer was listening to and determine for themselves what relevance the measurements have in accordance with what the reviewer was saying.

 

[PeterA]

Perhaps the Sashas being right next to the Alexias affected the sound?

Jim Smith would undoubtedly agree with this. He writes about this in "Get Better Sound". Those Sasha woofers were moving as the room was being pressurized and creating a sound of their own. This probably made everything sound a bit muddy. IMO, auditions should only have one pair of speakers in the room at a time.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Jim Smith would undoubtedly agree with this. He writes about this in "Get Better Sound". Those Sasha woofers were moving as the room was being pressurized and creating a sound of their own. This probably made everything sound a bit muddy. IMO, auditions should only have one pair of speakers in the room at a time.

And wearing a wristwatch too

Remember when Ivor touted single speaker demos?

 

[DaveyF]

Remember when Ivor touted single speaker demos?

I happen to believe that Ivor was absolutely right about that. Although he probably didn't take into account the practical issues involved for most dealer's or distributor's.

 

[PeterA]

And wearing a wristwatch too

Remember when Ivor touted single speaker demos?

Myles, for those of us who are less informed, could you please explain who Ivor is, what he meant about single speaker demos and what a wristwatch has to do with it? I guess I haven't been around long enough. Thanks.

 

[microstrip]

Jim Smith would undoubtedly agree with this. He writes about this in "Get Better Sound". Those Sasha woofers were moving as the room was being pressurized and creating a sound of their own. This probably made everything sound a bit muddy. IMO, auditions should only have one pair of speakers in the room at a time.

Yes, they act as an Helmholtz resonator tuned to port resonance. If you must have two pairs of speakers in a room when listening, the unused pair should go in the corners - perhaps there they will act as bass traps and improve the room response! Placing them at the playing speaker plane will suck the bass of them.

 

[microstrip]

And wearing a wristwatch too

Remember when Ivor touted single speaker demos?

Or even worst, the infamous and shameful feedback distortion phone trick?

 

[microstrip]

Myles, for those of us who are less informed, could you please explain who Ivor is, what he meant about single speaker demos and what a wristwatch has to do with it? I guess I haven't been around long enough. Thanks.

Peter,

Myles is referring to Ivor Tiefenbrun, the founder of Linn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivor_Tiefenbrun

Linn dealers were requested to carry single speaker demos, as the presence of other speakers in the room would spoil the sound. Ivor claimed that the presence of some devices, such as phones or portable radios, or even a digital watch in a listening room could affected the sound of a system.