The [coffee snobs'] espresso thread
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Here's a recent shot using a single origin Guatemalan from a local roaster, Huckleberry.
Dave, what about a video of the extraction, with some system tunes going on in the backgroundHere's a recent shot using a single origin Guatemalan from a local roaster, Huckleberry.
Dave, what about a video of the extraction, with some system tunes going on in the background
I happen to have one! It's with my Strega and K5 grinder, from about 6 years ago. Taken on a LG phone from the era, the audio system is pretty obviously not in the same room, but I'll add that disclaimer. Unfortunately I can't make any excuses for the music, Pretty Lights is a local band that played live a lot at the time. He's really talented, but the music is really best live on a huge pa system.
A friend of mine who got an Espresso Forge also feels it produces similar results to his main machines, Londinium and Decent, so he got a Streitman, which is a manual lever with an open boiler and custom, slightly smaller diameter portafilter. I am starting to think that may be my holy grail of espresso machines. Like a good audio system, it's not overly complicated, but also not so barebones it can't do everything well. Not megabucks, but far from cheap. It should last a lifetime. I was a little skeptical, but after getting to use one in person I think I'm sold on it.
Nice! Love a good extraction… it can be strangely quite mesmerising.
I do like the Streightman a lot. Really artisanal, beautifully built… lovely workflow. I could go there for sure.
I have had E-61 group machines for 25 years and really have enjoyed the ECM Technika profi that I’ve had for the last 4 years. The flow rate control that I fitted has given lots of involvement and fine control being able to ride the flow rate throughout the extraction.
I’d thought about a saturated group next or lever… going lever is the way I’d most like to take it now to just get that baseline of reliable texture and sweetness of a proper lever god shot. Then there is the engagement and kinaesthetic joy and the zen of lever extraction.
I’ve shortlisted for the New Year (maybe) and come down to a balance on spend and a mix of function and control. Currently thinking either the ACS Vostok or ACS Evo Leva or the Nurri Leva.
ACS Vostok
ACS Evo Leva
Nurri Leva
As inspirational as they are I ruled out (below) the new Kees Van Der Westen Spiritello and the La Marzocco Leva X not only on well beyond my spend $$$ but also typical operational maintenance as ongoing costs… as sexy as they are I do like ECM like reliability and am thinking twice whether I’d sacrifice that bulletproof approach to engineering to go to something more exotic.
KVDW Spiritello
La Marzocco Leva X
I had a few different machines when I started out very modestly then just the two ECM E-61 machines which have been better mid level machines and both performed really well over the last 25 years.
I’d definitely like the next one to be a destination rather than just a step forwards… have to admit there’s some fantastic new lever machines out there now… very tempting.
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I have gone to a neck down basket myself. But, I'm only using 12.7 grams. I had a 10 gram 58 from Decent. It just ran too fast. Would channel and spray. I had to close the grinder so much it would start to chatter.
I moved to a neck down basket that is a funnel. I get a lot less channeling and can open the grinder by about 2 hous on a clock.
Ultimately I would like a thinner basket. But I don't like the extra work in the video of loading the basket. My wife is not competent enough tg deal with it.
I wish Lelit sold a replacement grouo head that was a 49. I don't get why home machines are 58. Why do I want to push 18 grams or more of coffee. Even commercial. Why 58?
I moved to a neck down basket that is a funnel. I get a lot less channeling and can open the grinder by about 2 hous on a clock.
Ultimately I would like a thinner basket. But I don't like the extra work in the video of loading the basket. My wife is not competent enough tg deal with it.
I wish Lelit sold a replacement grouo head that was a 49. I don't get why home machines are 58. Why do I want to push 18 grams or more of coffee. Even commercial. Why 58?
There are baskets as small as 7g for a 58mm portafilter, and you get get baskets with larger or smaller holes to suit the application. If anything, there's so many 58mm baskets that it can be hard to find the right one. IMS and VST are the two main brands of high end baskets to look into.
Depending on the grinder you can only grind so fine until you'll run into problems, seems like that's the case, so you need a basket with smaller holes so you can grind courser. The best necked-down basket I've used with a more restricted flow is the IMS made E&B Lab Super Fine H28 basket.
Personally, I'm fine with using 18+g of beans as I just want to pull a shot and get on with my day rather then pull 2 smaller shots. My friend who got the Streitman likes the 49mm baskets, but the differences between that and a good necked-down 58mm basket is pretty subtle.
Those are all beautiful machines, can't go wrong. If you haven't owned a manual lever I'd try one before investing in a spring lever, for me there's no going back. It's like a manual sports car vs dual clutch. Both have their charms. My friend who got the Strietman kept his Londinium for making milk drinks. The only thing I don't like about manual levers is the lack of steamer.
I don't buy into the high-$ machines unless you're running an espresso shop. A friend had a Slayer for a while... nice but massive overkill and wasn't as reliable as you'd hope for a >$10k machine.
Grinder can make dust. All my baskets are VST. And a couple Decent.
I don't understand the IMS website. It's not very intuitive. And they're unfortunately located in europe, where you can't talk to anybody from in the US.
I don't understand the IMS website. It's not very intuitive. And they're unfortunately located in europe, where you can't talk to anybody from in the US.
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Yup, the grinder producing some fines is good for traditional espresso but is a limitation for using some beans and baskets. That's how I ended up with a $4500 grinder and a $400 machine.
If you go to this extent one should try roasting. Its not that complicated. I've been roasting for over 2 decades. Once you start your ruined! I buy my beans from Burman Coffee Traders. I've purchased beans from all around the world. I was into Columbian for a long time but now solely Costa Rican. I roast around every 3 weeks on the back deck...
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Yeah, there's some new roasters that seem intriguing. Tell us more, do you have any recs?
The Fresh Roast SR 800 with the extension tube is a nice roaster. More powerful than the 450. 6-8oz at a time, I typically do 3 batches per session. Drum roasters are also nice but I would suggest starting with one of the models I mentioned. You'll hear terms of the "first crack". When I first started I was focused on that. Eventually you can visually know what level of roast you like. You can see when the oils just start to release from the beans. This is a good rule of thumb. Then you go into a cooling mode. You don't want to burn the beans. I've over done several batches over the years. I get side-tracked and then remember I'm roasting! Mad dash! I typically do darker roasts. However for more complexity I'll blend Darker, Lighter, Medium. As mentioned I'm partial to the Costa Rican and mostly buy organic. You can get beans from Africa to Papua New Guinea and everywhere in between. Over 25 years of roasting and have never stopped! Once you master it, hard going back. I never did...
A mate has had a mix of various manual direct and spring dippers over the years but I’ve only had brief limited exposure to the levers and not lived with them. I did research the YouTube’s on many of the direct manual lever options as well as spring dipper levers.
The Streitman does look among the most attractive choices for a manual. Makes sense to me. Put in a pic for the guys who haven’t seen one. They are industrial design icons for sure.
Streitman CT2
But my instincts have been leaning more towards a dipper lever maybe because I’ve been using the manual flow rate fully on my machine for years and between beans, grind settings, burr choice, puck prep as well as preinfusion and extraction flow rates I figure there’s just too much play in my process. I’d like to lock down parts of it a bit more. Thinking I might be happier with the repeatability with the mechanical spring lever doing the declining pressure reliably as more a fixed factor and then me focussing just on fine tuning with grind and pre-infusion rates and having granular pressure and temperature control as well.
The Odyssey Argos was on my shortlist but it’s extraction volume falls short… depending on the coffee I usually go for 1:2 to 1:2.5 ratio and then sometimes it’s nice to even do a slightly longer 1:3 espresso… but on 18gms the Argos seems to max out at 1:2 at best without doing a felini pull. Tho you can spec it with both a direct manual lever and a spring lever and it can steam milk… but perhaps just too early in its iteration in development as a machine still… if the volume it produced was more typically higher or towards up to 45 ml for a 1:2.5 it’d be a stronger option for me.
I do like not needing to spend as much for the machine and keeping it generally less complex in design. Having the ability to run it both as direct manual and a spring dipper at times is something that maybe I should reconsider about it thanks Dave.
Odyssey Argos
If the end if the difference in the cup with good levers isn’t that great then I’m thinking it comes down to workflow, features and control, repeatability, reliability and user experience.
When I’ve pulled lever shots I like that all the preparation in grind, puck prep and pre-infusion sets the moment up and then you let go to the marvel that is a mechanical spring doing its thing and watch in silence and awe as the flow unfolds.
Both types give you a slightly different experience I figure and both can charm as you mentioned. With a manual lever shot I’m thinking you are caught up being active and concentrated in the lever pull down… but with a spring lever you can stop and stand still and watch the universe unfold from the blind portafilter and snake itself down into the cup. I do really love that time stopping and just watching the fluid creation in extraction.
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I’ve been using the Streitman for a couple of months now. I could not be happier with it. Elegant, simple machine that produces great espresso even for someone like me who doesn’t sweat the finer details of espresso craft.
I usually make lattes, but also all the straight extractions I’ve had taste wonderful.
For milk steaming I use the Bellman. Highly recommend! Another simple machine that just does the job to perfection (and without any plastic tubing).
I usually make lattes, but also all the straight extractions I’ve had taste wonderful.
For milk steaming I use the Bellman. Highly recommend! Another simple machine that just does the job to perfection (and without any plastic tubing).
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We’ve had Bunn at home and really enjoyed it. If I stopped doing pour overs, that’s the route I would probably go.
It’s not for everyone. I did it for several years 20 years ago, but eventually (when I found a consistently good roastery), I just got tired of the mess and the stink.
Today, when I buy from a new supplier, I dump 100 to 150 grams on a couple of white plates and do some post roast SCA style grading. The tasting (for the roast level) correlates pretty well to my perceived quality of the beans. Bad coffee usually starts with lower quality beans, and is degraded further by over roasting. Although over roasting is a serious equalizer. Char covers many other defects.