The future of Krell

[Gregadd]

Actually Mark was forced out by an elaborate tax scheme. As far as MLis concerned they have begun to market dynamic speakers under the ML name.

 

[nsgarch]

Actually Mark was forced out by an elaborate tax scheme. As far as MLis concerned they have begun to market dynamic speakers under the ML name.

Not to interrupt the Krell discussion, but I have no idea why some "elaborate tax scheme" was necessary to remove Mark. The important point is that Mark's departure took place when his original money people wanted out, and Madrigal Audio Labroratory was the buyer. Madrigal didn't want Mark (the person,) however they did want 'Mark Levinson' (the brand) and Mark couldn't do anything about it.

I hope for Mark's sake that one day soon, HK closes their Levinson division and Mark can use his brand name again

 

[FrantzM]

Frantz,

Thanks for the comments. I wasn't aware that any other amp of the time could drive that 0.1 Ohm load. When I spoke to Dan D'Agostino and Dean Roumanis at Krell ( I visited the factory once ), they both told me that the Krell monoblocks were the only amps they recommended in that application. Perhaps there was some "agreement" between the two companies...??!

Lee

Krell made very good, very powerful amplifiers. They were not the only one making these. Mark Levinson (the brand, not the man designed chiefly by Tom Colangelo) , Threshold (designed by Nelson Pass), Rowland (Jeff Rowland), Classe (Dave Reich) were designing musical SS amplifiers. The Rowland in particular were sought after for their almost-tube like sound. Many amplifiers from these brands (and other whose names escape me) could drive the Apogees which required not only power but stability in low impedance.

in my mind the best Amplifers Krell made were the Krell Reference: the KRS-100 and the KRS-200 .. I think the KRS-200 weighed 300 lbs.The 200 was pure class A and consumed over 1200 watts when feeding a 8 Ohm load and could produce CONTINUOUSLY over 10 KW in a 0.1 ohm load it was said continuously, I don't think this was ever tested but I wouldn't be surprised that they could indeed ... provided your breaker would not trip around it 20 Amp rating at 120 Vac but if you fed the beast 220 Volt on a 50 amps circuit it would.
To my ears, then they sounded seductively sweet and had the kind of control that one can only dream of coupled with an extension that seem to go where the bats converse ... They were too wild, unpractical.. Krell came then with their "Plateau Bias" models which were not pure Class A but more practical and of course more expensive ...
Hope they rebound ... They are a prestigious brand with some good products .. ( I quickly add that they are/were not my cup of tea except for the two aforementioned models ..)

 

[DUP]

High powered QUALITY amps

Krell made very good, very powerful amplifiers. They were not the only one making these. Mark Levinson (the brand, not the man designed chiefly by Tom Colangelo) , Threshold (designed by Nelson Pass), Rowland (Jeff Rowland), Classe (Dave Reich) were designing musical SS amplifiers. The Rowland in particular were sought after for their almost-tube like sound. Many amplifiers from these brands (and other whose names escape me) could drive the Apogees which required not only power but stability in low impedance.

in my mind the best Amplifers Krell made were the Krell Reference: the KRS-100 and the KRS-200 .. I think the KRS-200 weighed 300 lbs.The 200 was pure class A and consumed over 1200 watts when feeding a 8 Ohm load and could produce CONTINUOUSLY over 10 KW in a 0.1 ohm load it was said continuously, I don't think this was ever tested but I wouldn't be surprised that they could indeed ... provided your breaker would not trip around it 20 Amp rating at 120 Vac but if you fed the beast 220 Volt on a 50 amps circuit it would.
To my ears, then they sounded seductively sweet and had the kind of control that one can only dream of coupled with an extension that seem to go where the bats converse ... They were too wild, unpractical.. Krell came then with their "Plateau Bias" models which were not pure Class A but more practical and of course more expensive ...
Hope they rebound ... They are a prestigious brand with some good products .. ( I quickly add that they are/were not my cup of tea except for the two aforementioned models ..)

So much hyped nonsense on grossly overpriced Krell stuff. I currently use AVA amplifiers complete rebuilt Hafler P500 usuing only the original monster AC line transformer heat sinks and other assorted items. New Exicon MOSFETS new driver boards etc. Well under $2,000 and they can do about 1200W RMS into 4 OMS or more without breaking a sweat. I use each as mono through AVA phase inverters to power up my speakers in bi amp mode. I guarantee, they will smoke anything from Krell or other grossly over priced heavily marketed items. Pay for teh amplifier, not teh BS and ads associated with such brands that are hyped' tp teh stratosphere. And AVA has been doing greatness for 40+ years, and you never heard of him, did ya? 4 Hafler P500 rebuilt by Frank have less than .01% dist slew rates of around 800V/uS freq from about 5-500,000Hz Now you talking bout a ckt that is not heard, since it is so natural, it does nothing to the signal but make it bigger. Spend money on quality, not fancy ads.

 

[RBFC]

So much hyped nonsense on grossly overpriced Krell stuff. I currently use AVA amplifiers complete rebuilt Hafler P500 usuing only the original monster AC line transformer heat sinks and other assorted items. New Exicon MOSFETS new driver boards etc. Well under $2,000 and they can do about 1200W RMS into 4 OMS or more without breaking a sweat. I use each as mono through AVA phase inverters to power up my speakers in bi amp mode. I guarantee, they will smoke anything from Krell or other grossly over priced heavily marketed items. Pay for teh amplifier, not teh BS and ads associated with such brands that are hyped' tp teh stratosphere. And AVA has been doing greatness for 40+ years, and you never heard of him, did ya? 4 Hafler P500 rebuilt by Frank have less than .01% dist slew rates of around 800V/uS freq from about 5-500,000Hz Now you talking bout a ckt that is not heard, since it is so natural, it does nothing to the signal but make it bigger. Spend money on quality, not fancy ads.

It's fine if you don't like or value Krell, etc. The AVA amps may perform very well for you and I'm glad you're pleased! However, your tone in posting is not appreciated.

Lee

 

[FrantzM]

DUP

I am curious as to how you can "guarantee" they will "I guarantee, they will smoke anything from Krell or other grossly over priced heavily marketed items" ... Care to enlighten me?
Also do you have a thought about the future of Krell ?

 

[es347]

Say hello to one of our newest posters....DUP. You will see in short order why he was banned from teh (his unique spelling of the word) Stereophile forum. Welcome aboard DUP!

 

[amirm]

So much hyped nonsense on grossly overpriced Krell stuff.

There was no hype in what you quoted. As an electrical engineer and analog audio designer, I see strong backing to everything Frantz mentions.

I currently use AVA amplifiers

Let's see what they say about their amps: http://avahifi.info/root/equipment/amplifier/insight_amps.htm

"The dynamic range, bass extension, transient detail, and air are simply “you are there” live. There are absolutely no solid-state artifacts. The top end goes out forever, with amazing power and transparency, but without strain or rough edges. It is utterly liquid and utterly defined at the same time. The power, space, softness, and breathtaking transient impact of live music are captured by the Insight amplifiers. You simply will not believe your ears. Insight transparency will put you at the live event.

An Insight amplifier will get the very best out of associated equipment. You don’t need to have the most expensive speakers, CD player, or preamp to realize a huge musical improvement in your system. Your records will sound more natural than ever because the Insight amps don’t ever get into trouble, even if your phono cartridge does. Likewise, the Insight amps simply are not disturbed by the high frequency digital distortion from less than perfect CD players—consider, though, the Insight DAC to greatly improve your CD sound. You will hear music from CDs like never before. Even FM radio sounds like you have been moved right into the studio.

The sound stage is lifesize, harmonic balance is right on. They have awesome dynamic range, definition, and transparency, combined with lifelike smoothness and ease of listening. There is a sense of faithfulness to the spirit of the music combined with accuracy that will make you enjoy program material you previously thought was defective. Of course the circuits really don’t “sound” this way (they really don’t “sound” at all), it’s just that they are so pure and fast that they allow you to hear much more of the music in a way that will startle and please you.

All of the Insight amplifier models essentially behave the same—musical perfection. Thus the sensible thing for you to do is to choose the lowest priced model that meets your power and load impedance driving needs. Call for recommendations."

Not disturbed by the high frequency digital distortion??? Musical perfection??? The above is as hyped up as any high-end ad I have ever read.

Please post any follow ups to your own thread elsewhere on AVA. This is not the place for it.

 

[DUP]

DUP

I am curious as to how you can "guarantee" they will "I guarantee, they will smoke anything from Krell or other grossly over priced heavily marketed items" ... Care to enlighten me?
Also do you have a thought about the future of Krell ?

Krell, like Levinson, as did Fisher, AR,and dozens of brands before, will vanish. Harman probably wants to try to get into car audio like Clarion tried with the McIntosh brand, that went bust. It took D&M to be formed to save McIntosh, now D&M is becoming a mini Harmon, buying up brands to try and save em. Krell is gone, like so many others. Large scale makers like QSC, Crown, several other PRO brands deliver products that work, are priced for mortals, and continue. Boutique products like Krell and Levinson have such a limited market, they cannot survive. Levinson tried to come back with his Red Rose and other assorted nonsense, it failed, all these companies making similar products are over priced, trying to claim they are so different, but what they have in common mostly is absurd prices. Crown, QSC, AVA priced for mortals, products that deliver, and are rreliable. Not dopey magic. Finicky ckts that fail early, are not what $20,000 products are supposed to do. Who had that recall from over heating due to faulty design, it was one of teh pricey "audiophile" names. Not sane stuff from reality based mfg.

 

[FrantzM]

DUP

In the long run .. we all will be dead. You mention a good number of High End companies who have disappeared. I could cite a good number of mid-fi brands who were "priced for mortals" who have known the same fate or become a simple badge on generic, utterly banal products ...Success of a brand depend on many factors and often has nothing to do with its prices and even sometimes with its performance ( a quick example Linux vs MSoft Windows .. Linux is free and performance is superior , guess which has a de facto monopoly on PCs, yours likely included ...??)

I can understand your disenchantment with High End Audio products pricing strategies... Many share similar point of views but brushing ALL high End products as underperforming and overhyped (strange term) is too broad a stroke .. You know better I am sure if you care to write in this (or other ) fora.

In passing you have not demonstrated how your favorite gears "smoke" the others ...

In the end, it seems that your purpose is to shock, not to teach, learn and share ... If it is the former ... I am sure most in this board are unfazed .. If you need to share your discoveries with us and engage in thoughtful discussions, Welcome else you will be thoroughly ignored ..

 

[Steve williams]

He has been thoroughly warned. Trust me on that one

 

[es347]

Steve old buddy, just pull the plug on the miscreant. This is what he does...a high end forum troll that trashes everything and everyone with which he disagrees. It gets old real quick.

 

[es347]

2 McIntosh mono amps smoked by 2 VanAlstine P500 Hafler rebuilds by VanAlstine into OmegaStar EX ckts, so much so, he sold teh McIntoshs and bought 2 VanAlstine P500Hafler/Omegastar EX amps, more power better sound much less money.

bwahhhhaaaaaaaaa. What a boatload of crap. You like Frank's work? Fine, I have no problem with that. Then why do you get your panties in such a twist over folks who decide to buy the more expensive stuff? As I recall we still live in a free market society, at least for a while longer, so what if I decide to buy a $20K or even a $40K amplifier? As I see it, it's really none of your $*&%# business. Go away.

..and by the way, I own a pair of heavily modified DH200s and yes they sound very good. Are they as good as my MC501 monoblocks? Not even close. OK now you can go away.

 

[Gregadd]

Krell holding on

EISA AWARD
European HT High-End 2010-2011 - Krell S-1200u/S-1500
European HT High-End 2010-2011 - Krell S-1200u/S-1500

When cost is no object and the pursuit of the ultimate home theatre sound is the overriding goal, Krell has a mouth-watering solution in its fabulous S-1200u AV processor and S-1500 multichannel power amplifier. The 7.1 channel processor provides decoding for all Dolby and DTS HD audio formats through its fully balanced outputs, the ‘u’ version also offering upscaling of analogue video content to 1080p digital video from its HDMI 1.3 output. This stunning AV processor is complemented by Krell’s modular S-1500 power amplifier which offers 3, 5, 6 or 7x150W outputs from a deceptively compact enclosure. Its features tick all the boxes for the high-end cinephile while its Krell heritage ensures a broad, deep and immensely powerful multichannel sound that sets the standard for cinema in the home.

 

[Bulldogger]

I would really scare me if the Krell brand disappeared. Several years back, I realized that manly of the brands which are reviewed in magazines like Stereophile are difficult to audition. Often, there are many authorized dealers,but few actually have the products in many cases. Krell is not like that. Finding the products has always been easy. So, in my mind, if a company with such a wide distribution and prominence could face difficulty, the obscure brands really are at risk. The whole high-end is at risk.

 

[microstrip]

in my mind the best Amplifers Krell made were the Krell Reference: the KRS-100 and the KRS-200 ..

You are not alone. The most famous listening room in the world - after Steve' room, surely - the muisc room of the founder of SME, Alastair Robertson-Aikman, still uses the Krell KRS200 . Some years ago a mint pair of KRS200's was available for sale in Germany for around 10K. It was not easy to resist , but this time the brain was stronger than the heart...

 

[Steve williams]

I loved Dan's Reference amp and to boot use his Reference sub as well

 

[FrantzM]

I loved Dan's Reference amp and to boot use his Reference sub as well

Think to this day it is the best Krell amp ever ... well the "little" brother, the KRS-100 was the same .. just less power ... A brute force approach to high power amps .. I am still in awe of this amp and of what I remember from its sound... Delicate in a surprising way .. yet controlled, everywhere .. A true furnace ..huge Class A amp weighing over 250 lbs each mono side... Would trip most breaker when turned on .. Could produce 6400 watts continuously if your electric circuit was up to it ... and cost the astonishing sum of $16,000 then .. Right now in this time of $4,000 "designer" handbags .. it would probably cost 200K. I am still having some dreams on it to drive the Divas but ... eco-conscience and simple good sense would certainly step in when the time of pulling the trigger comes ...

 

[FrantzM]

Very interesting summary of Krell back then in ...

HERE

 

[RBFC]

Frantz,

That's the era of my initial involvement with Krell. I had 4 KMA-160 monoblocks, the KBL line stage, and the KPA phono preamp. They were fantastic. I couldn't afford 4 KRS amplifiers then, but wanted them!

Lee