The Greatest Rachmaninoff 3rd of all time?

[Kingsrule]

What a ridiculous comment. I was there in 2001 when Olga Kern won and in 2005 when Alexaner Kobrin won. Neither flailed their arms or had big hair. Do you think Van Cliburn gave a crap about those things when he was a judge? You shouldn't make false accusations about things you don't know about or understand.

By the way, auditions for key positions in most top orchestras have been done blinded long before the "me too" era brought sex discrimination to the forefront everywhere in society.

For goodness sake man, do you really think the judges watch the performances on YouTube videos to reach a decision?
Whatever you're smoking, I want some!

1. OK look at the current pictures/finalists
2. A known fact. Never said anything about orchestra tryouts
3. I was thinking of you for the most part..LOL

 

[rando]

There has been a developing competition among concertizing pianists facing a Fischer-Dieskau syndrome of having done too much for too long.

What a ridiculous comment. I was there in 2001 when Olga Kern won and in 2005 when Alexaner Kobrin won.

Rather sad this is what I ended up quoting out of your responses.

Equally unfortunate is my first thought was, who? A valid response when referencing them alongside artists with long illustrious careers taking in the best stages between committing very popular interpretations to disc.

What you are responding to are sensationalist expressions of vigorous contempt to be sure. There is regrettably a lot of well informed evidence supporting irregularity at competitions and wider handling of those arising as winners behind those statements. A lot of record contracts handed out and tour dates in support of winning credential went nowhere and fast. By a lot I mean... not overly fit to explore for the purpose of souring a newly found enjoyment.

If orchestras were capable of setting up a blind audition of soloists that got world class talent in one place for a few days. Unsure of who the pool contained. We as audience members would adjust to visages unseen for many years.

 

[marty]

Yunchan Lim Live Recordings

Yunchan Lim, gold medalist. Recital performance recordings during the Sixteenth Van Cliburn International Piano Competition in 2022. Audio recorded by Grammy award winning sound engineer, Tom Lazarus. Please Note: This is a digital album. No physical copy of this album will be mailed. Photo for...

shop.cliburn.org

The above confuses me. I think the download is only available for the 3 preliminary round performances whereas the final round performance is available only as a CD as a pre-order below?

Yunchan Lim, Gold Medalist CD

Purchase your official CD of 2022 Cliburn Gold Medalist Yunchan Lim's historic live Semifinal Round performance of Liszt's Transcendental Etudes! The original announcement that Lim—at age 18, the youngest competitor—would play the entire monumental work for his 2022 Cliburn third-round recital...

shop.cliburn.org

I spoke to the Cliburn folks today, Only the preliminary rounds are available for download. They cannot release the final performance due to contractual arrangements with the Ft. Worth Symphony. I suspect somebody will release it eventually however. Too much buzz not to have a commercial release. The upcoming CD targeted for Spring 2023 is in fact a studio CD but even they are not sure exactly what it will contain.

I also called the NY Phil to see if I could get a ticket for Lim's performance of Rach 3 in May. Totally sold out for 3 nights with a single exception of 1 damn seat with a partially obstructed view. Ouch. I passed. There's a good single seat on StubHub for $600 but the guy isn't Taylor Swift (yet) so I passed on that one as well as my guess is he'll be around a while, so I'll wait.

 

[zerostargeneral]

Sorry for the off topic;

He never recorded the third, this second is something special. The hidden melodies are unmatched and the final glissando;

GYORGY CZIFFRA plays RACHMANINOFF Piano Concerto No.2 in C minor - YouTube

Kindest regards,G.

 

[Argonaut]

Sorry for the off topic;

He never recorded the third, this second is something special. The hidden melodies are unmatched and the final glissando;

GYORGY CZIFFRA plays RACHMANINOFF Piano Concerto No.2 in C minor - YouTube

Kindest regards,G.

I like the Tempo of this particular work

 

[marty]

This is an insightful interview with pianist Gary Graffman who was Yuja Wang and Lang Lang's teacher at Curtis.

Asked why he refused to let Lang Lang and Yuja Wang play in competitions, but thought it was OK for Yunchan Lim he replied "Yuja Wang and Lang Lang didn't need it whereas Yunchan Lim had nothing to lose".

I was impressed when he said that this year, 173 people applied for only 3 openings at Curtis. Why? Because only 3 pianists graduated from the program so that's all they had room for! Wow.

 

[Jeddyd]

So far for me, being a CD only listener, Earl Wilde playing the Complete Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos, with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Conducted by Jascha Horenstein, Chandos Records, 1966, (1987 Edition) is a favourite of mine.
Personally, I believe I haven't heard these compositions sounding better than this anywhere. Yet.

 

[astrotoy]

So far for me, being a CD only listener, Earl Wilde playing the Complete Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos, with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Conducted by Jascha Horenstein, Chandos Records, 1966, (1987 Edition) is a favourite of mine.
Personally, I believe I haven't heard these compositions sounding better than this anywhere. Yet.View attachment 118044

The Earl Wild recording was done for Readers Digest by Decca from May 25 to June 2nd, 1965. Charles Gerhardt produced most of the Readers Digest classical releases during this time and Wild recorded many piano concerti and a few solo piano recordings for Readers Digest with Decca engineering, mostly by the great Kenneth Wilkinson. They were subsequently reissued by several companies, including an audiophile release on vinyl by Chesky in the early 1990s. Harry Pearson chose the Readers Digest box as one of the Absolute Sound Super Disc selections. Chandos remastered the analogue recordings to digital and release them on CD in the 1980's. Most of Wild's concerto recordings for Readers Digest were done with the Royal Philharmonic, recorded at one of Decca's favorite venues Walthamstow Assembly Hall in the north of London.

Larry

 

[GSOphile]

So far for me, being a CD only listener, Earl Wilde playing the Complete Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos, with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Conducted by Jascha Horenstein, Chandos Records, 1966, (1987 Edition) is a favourite of mine.
Personally, I believe I haven't heard these compositions sounding better than this anywhere. Yet.View attachment 118044

Mine too! And kudos to Chandos; this two-CD set holds up well against all comers IMO.

 

[GSOphile]

The Earl Wild recording was done for Readers Digest by Decca from May 25 to June 2nd, 1965. Charles Gerhardt produced most of the Readers Digest classical releases during this time and Wild recorded many piano concerti and a few solo piano recordings for Readers Digest with Decca engineering, mostly by the great Kenneth Wilkinson. They were subsequently reissued by several companies, including an audiophile release on vinyl by Chesky in the early 1990s. Harry Pearson chose the Readers Digest box as one of the Absolute Sound Super Disc selections. Chandos remastered the analogue recordings to digital and release them on CD in the 1980's. Most of Wild's concerto recordings for Readers Digest were done with the Royal Philharmonic, recorded at one of Decca's favorite venues Walthamstow Assembly Hall in the north of London.

Larry

Thank you for the history behind these. One small addendum: The PCs and Rhapsody were recorded in Kingsway Hall.

 

[astrotoy]

Thank you for the history behind these. One small addendum: The PCs and Rhapsody were recorded in Kingsway Hall.

Thanks, my data sheet for Decca recordings shows Walthamstow. At least for May 25, 1965, the date when Wild recorded the Rach 3, it shows that another Decca recording was being made at Kingsway Hall (Stanley Black conducting with Art Lilley engineering two Decca Phase Four recordings). Larry

 

[Jeddyd]

The Earl Wild recording was done for Readers Digest by Decca from May 25 to June 2nd, 1965. Charles Gerhardt produced most of the Readers Digest classical releases during this time and Wild recorded many piano concerti and a few solo piano recordings for Readers Digest with Decca engineering, mostly by the great Kenneth Wilkinson. They were subsequently reissued by several companies, including an audiophile release on vinyl by Chesky in the early 1990s. Harry Pearson chose the Readers Digest box as one of the Absolute Sound Super Disc selections. Chandos remastered the analogue recordings to digital and release them on CD in the 1980's. Most of Wild's concerto recordings for Readers Digest were done with the Royal Philharmonic, recorded at one of Decca's favorite venues Walthamstow Assembly Hall in the north of London.

Larry

Thank you very much indeed for this fascinating information. Much appreciated! In fact as an edit, where can one find this kind of information out?

 

[GSOphile]

Thanks, my data sheet for Decca recordings shows Walthamstow. At least for May 25, 1965, the date when Wild recorded the Rach 3, it shows that another Decca recording was being made at Kingsway Hall (Stanley Black conducting with Art Lilley engineering two Decca Phase Four recordings). Larry

The Chandos album info shows recorded in Kingsway Hall May 1965; Horenstein conducting; Kenneth Wilkinson sound engineer.

 

[astrotoy]

Here is the data from my source. Larry

Pr: Charles Gerhardt Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson

[c] 25, 26, [e] 31 May, [d] 1 & [a] 2 Jun 1965 Walthamstow Assembly Hall

Earl Wild (piano), Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Jascha Horenstein​

[a] RACHMANINOV Piano Concerto No.1 in F sharp minor Op.1

Piano Concerto No.2 in C minor Op.18

[c] Piano Concerto No.3 in D minor Op.30

[d] Piano Concerto No.4 in G minor Op.40

[e] Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini Op.43

[READER’S DIGEST] [a-e] (c67) RDM2251-54 = RDS6251-54,

[be] (May77) Quintessence PMC7006,

[a] (Jun78) Quintessence PMC7052,

[d] (Jun78) Quintessence PMC7053,

[ab] (Oct80) R.C.A. GL25291,

[c] (Jly81) R.C.A. GL25292,

[de] (Oct81) R.C.A. GL25293,

[a-e] (Aug87) Chandos CHAN8521-22,

(Nov90) Chesky CD2,

[ade] (Jan91) Chesky CD41,

[c] (Aug92) Chesky CD76,

[a-e] (’97) RDCD2221-23.

 

[astrotoy]

Thank you very much indeed for this fascinating information. Much appreciated! In fact as an edit, where can one find this kind of information out?

I have a file that came from the author who had access to the data sheets from Decca. He asked me not to share the file. There may be an earlier version of his database on the web.

This was about a decade ago when I met him in London when I was writing my book on Decca Classical Records - Decca Supreme Stereophonic Legacy published by First Impression Music. Unfortunately my book is out of print. Larry

 

[the sound of Tao]

So far for me, being a CD only listener, Earl Wilde playing the Complete Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos, with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Conducted by Jascha Horenstein, Chandos Records, 1966, (1987 Edition) is a favourite of mine.
Personally, I believe I haven't heard these compositions sounding better than this anywhere. Yet.View attachment 118044

Welcome Jeddyd. Nice recommendation! Wild and Horenstein was the first full Rachmaninoff piano concerto cycle that I bought… and is for me still a great benchmark.

Horenstein was as strong for me in these as Earl Wild and the cycle stands as great recordings as well as great performances and an exceptional collaboration.

The thing about having a benchmark cycle of a composer’s work in a specific format it can be such a fantastic thing for understanding any composer in terms of their development in an area of composition throughout their lifetimes.

So in terms of getting a sense of a composer’s approach to a particular kind of composition (symphony, concerto, quartets etc) having a complete cycle from the same performer/s is like being able to compare components in one system as opposed to listening to gear across a variety of systems or setups.

The challenge with Rachmaninoff’s piano composition is that it’s such an extraordinarily mountainous cycle of some of the greatest piano works by one of the greatest composers for the instrument as well as one the great concert pianists of the romantic era as well. I’m not sure any one pianist has completely nailed them all in their recordings even though some of the best have tried.

I was hoping Yuga Wang’s and Gustavo Dudamel’s recently released epic marathon of live Rachmaninoff piano concertos might have finally grabbed a standout distinction as a greatest Rachmaninoff piano cycle guernsey… though I’d suggest Yuja’s is now among the top cycles available I still don’t think we have as yet one complete ring to rule them all.

Some of the great full Rachmaninoff piano concerto cycles (concertos 1,2,3,4) could now include…

Wild/Horenstein/Royal Philharmonic
Ove Andsnes/Pappano/LSO and BPO
Daniil Trifonov/Nezet-Seguin/Philadelphia
Yuga Wang/Dudamel/LA Phil
and wild card Fedorova/Pitrenas/St Gallen

Throwing in also then just a few more as first to mind additional faves for individual Rachmaninoff concertos beyond the above recordings (so not cycles and not even remotely suggested as a comprehensive list of the available individual great performances)… Rachmaninoff piano concertos (both 1 and 2) Zimerman/Ozawa/BSO… and in Rachmaninoff piano concerto 3 Horowitz/Ormandy and Argerich/Chailly and in Rachmaninoff piano concerto 4 Ashkenazy/Previn/LSO and also Ashkenazy/Haitink/Concertgebouw. There’s so much Rach piano love to love out there…

 

[bonzo75]

Thank you very much indeed for this fascinating information. Much appreciated! In fact as an edit, where can one find this kind of information out?

the Earl wild Horenstein you can just Google you will get the information about the readers digest concerts.
The other good Rach 3 apart from Byron Janis and Earl wild is this, from 1965

 

[adrianywu]

Who doesn't love Byron Janis! What surprises me is that my personal favorite renditions of Rach 3 have changed over the years. I remember being fascinated with Argerich's blazing speed for quite a while, as well as with Van Cliburn's grace and grandeur as well as several others (Horowitz, Berman, Ashkenazy) over time.

At one point, I was biased toward Van Cliburn since I lived in Ft Worth from 2002-2008 an met him several times and because of his legacy in changing the way American pianists would be viewed forever as a result of his winning the Tchaikovsky competition in Moscow in 1958 at the height of the cold war. That each artist brings their own version of this recipe, which is equal parts precision and passion, is one of music's great joys.

It would be fascinating to learn who Rachmaninoff himself (his own version is available on YouTube) thought was the greatest interpreter of this work if he was alive today. Here's an interesting exchange between Rachmaninoff and Horowitz...."Rachmaninoff was in the audience when Horowitz made his American debut at Carnegie Hall in 1928. Apparently, he told Horowitz “Your octaves are the fastest and loudest, but I must tell you, it was not musical.” Horowitz visited Rachmaninoff the next day and they played through the 3rd concerto, with Horowitz taking the solo part. With a twinkle in his eyes, Horowitz once noted, “Rachmaninoff could always find something to complain about in any performance.”

Rachmaninoff sat through Horowitz's performance of his 3rd concerto a few months before he passed away. He then went on stage and announced that Horowitz performed the piece the way how he had always imagined it should be played.

 

[adrianywu]

Welcome Jeddyd. Nice recommendation! Wild and Horenstein was the first full Rachmaninoff piano concerto cycle that I bought… and is for me still a great benchmark.

Horenstein was as strong for me in these as Earl Wild and the cycle stands as great recordings as well as great performances and an exceptional collaboration.

The thing about having a benchmark cycle of a composer’s work in a specific format it can be such a fantastic thing for understanding any composer in terms of their development in an area of composition throughout their lifetimes.

So in terms of getting a sense of a composer’s approach to a particular kind of composition (symphony, concerto, quartets etc) having a complete cycle from the same performer/s is like being able to compare components in one system as opposed to listening to gear across a variety of systems or setups.

The challenge with Rachmaninoff’s piano composition is that it’s such an extraordinarily mountainous cycle of some of the greatest piano works by one of the greatest composers for the instrument as well as one the great concert pianists of the romantic era as well. I’m not sure any one pianist has completely nailed them all in their recordings even though some of the best have tried.

I was hoping Yuga Wang’s and Gustavo Dudamel’s recently released epic marathon of live Rachmaninoff piano concertos might have finally grabbed a standout distinction as a greatest Rachmaninoff piano cycle guernsey… though I’d suggest Yuja’s is now among the top cycles available I still don’t think we have as yet one complete ring to rule them all.

Some of the great full Rachmaninoff piano concerto cycles (concertos 1,2,3,4) could now include…

Wild/Horenstein/Royal Philharmonic
Ove Andsnes/Pappano/LSO and BPO
Daniil Trifonov/Nezet-Seguin/Philadelphia
Yuga Wang/Dudamel/LA Phil
and wild card Fedorova/Pitrenas/St Gallen

Throwing in also then just a few more as first to mind additional faves for individual Rachmaninoff concertos beyond the above recordings (so not cycles and not even remotely suggested as a comprehensive list of the available individual great performances)… Rachmaninoff piano concertos (both 1 and 2) Zimerman/Ozawa/BSO… and in Rachmaninoff piano concerto 3 Horowitz/Ormandy and Argerich/Chailly and in Rachmaninoff piano concerto 4 Ashkenazy/Previn/LSO and also Ashkenazy/Haitink/Concertgebouw. There’s so much Rach piano love to love out there…

Must not forget Michelangeli's Rach 4 with Etore Gracis. Ashkenazy also recorded the 3rd in 1963 with Fistoulari, which I prefer to his later recording with Previn.

 

[adrianywu]

A lot of horse trading goes on in these competitions. Since judges need to abstain from voting when their own students perform, they usually agree with other judges to vote for each other's students. Those competitors whose teachers are not on the panel therefore are put at a disadvantage.

What a ridiculous comment. I was there in 2001 when Olga Kern won and in 2005 when Alexander Kobrin won. Neither flailed their arms or had big hair. Do you think Van Cliburn gave a crap about those things when he was a judge? You shouldn't make false accusations about things you don't know about or understand.

By the way, auditions for key positions in most top orchestras have been done blinded long before the "me too" era brought sex discrimination to the forefront everywhere in society.

For goodness sake man, do you really think the judges watch the performances on YouTube videos to reach a decision?