The new audiophile vinyl series The Original Source from Deutsche Grammophon (AAA)
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another Audiophile Bill in London, who doesn’t post here has three of them, two are almost a year old and the third is a 17 lb giant
i have a striped British shorthair just over a year, she is striped black and white and doesn’t look like the conventional blue.
she is a mezzo
Translation from Feline to English “ So… just when are you getting this proper HiFi system you keep talking about “
But the great news is you will be getting them
From what I understand, these are truly limited editions with no plans of having additional runs. So, sadly for those who wait as they are pondering whether or not to add these to their collection of records, they just may miss the boat.I haven't been ordering directly from DG, due to the poor customer service experiences that have been reported along with the horrible shipping times to the USA. I have just been ordering from our various online retailers here when they become available for pre-order or in stock. So far, it has worked out for me and I have been able to get the recordings that have appealed to me
I'm really looking forward to being able to order the next batch!
Best wishes,
Don
The estimated delivery date on the Brahms is Sept 11 to Oct 11. For the Verdi, it is Sept 8 -12. I guess they have to wait for pressing plant availability or something. I noticed there is a serial number at the back of the cover, with a total number of around 2000. That means they are not planning on increasing the number of pressings even if there is demand.
The Barshai Mahler 5 is compelling. Compared to many of the other recognised front running Mahler 5’s its spirit sits in the white hot spectrum… kind of like Kondrashin’s 5th but even more so.
The Barshai seems quite extraordinary, which then becomes mind blowing when realising that it was performed with a student orchestra. Barshai’s is almost a fairy tale moment and an utterly captivating performance and I do feel all Mahler lovers should hear it. But does it reflect what Mahler might have intended for the 5th. That is genuinely hard to say for sure.
I do really like this Karajan here as well. Apparently Karajan put in over 50 rehearsals preparing for this recording of the Mahler 5. It sits at a more traditional romantic beauty for beauty’s sake (not a criticism) in the more effusively romantic end of recognised great interpretations. In a lot of ways Mahler 5 presents as an almost ideal vehicle for the kind of sonorous lush beauty that Karajan and the Berlin Phil could lean into… but for me this is still exemplary music making… (and Karajan’s Mahler 6 is even more successful if DG later release that in this series).
On a side note for anyone wanting to explore more takes on Mahler 5 here are a few suggestions with 3 analogue stereo, 3 digital stereo and a mono (the ‘51 Rosbaud) shortlist of some of the greater Mahler 5 performances (for me on performances and not necessarily for recording quality) here are some choices I find fantastic.
Bernstein / Vienna Philharmonic (SD)
Barshai / Junge Deutches Phil (SD)
Barbirolli / New Philharmonia (SA)
Karajan / Berlin Philharmonic (SA)
Abbado/ both at Chicago (SA) and the Berlin Phil (SD)
Rosbaud / WDR Koln Rundfunk (MA)
PS I do have a personal favourite Mahler 5… what might be for me the most enduringly enchanting (and I well imagine Mahler might have wanted this work to enchant Alma the woman he dedicated it to) is the Bernstein 1988 Vienna Phil performance… though I’d happily listen to any of these (and there are others as well) when wanting to experience Mahler’s 5th symphony.
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Hello, I just have listened to the Debussy/Ravel Album out of the series.
another fine example for a vivid and sumptuous sounding record. Warm and three dimensional soundstage. Just gorgeous.
kind regards Michael
another fine example for a vivid and sumptuous sounding record. Warm and three dimensional soundstage. Just gorgeous.
kind regards Michael
Unlike the preceding 2nd, 3rd, and 4th symphonies, Mahler's symphony number 5 has no vocal elements. It is also known for its use of 6 horns (Beethoven's 5th used 3.) Its 1st movement begins with a funeral march with an associated stormy 2nd movement. The 3rd movement, the Scherzo, begins to lighten a bit with dance references. Tragedy turns to beauty in the 4th, scored solely for strings. Perhaps that is its vocal element. The final 5th movement is lively and upbeat.
To the general populace (at least those vaguely or somewhat aware of Mahler), the 5th Symphony contains what may be his most famous piece of music. That is the 4th movement, the Adagietto, often characterized as the most beautiful of all Mahler's music, purportedly written as a love song to Mahler's new bride Alma in 1902. The 4th movement also has the noteriety of being played at Robert Kennedy's (Sr) funeral held at Saint Patrick's Cathedral in New York City with performance by Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic. It has been performed stand alone for various films and commercial offerings; people have heard it even if they don't know its Mahler.
I really like the von Karajan TOS issuance and I'm delighted that DGG is offering the series. As you say, it is somewhat of a traditional reading. With Bernstein, well, you get Bernstein with Mahler on his sleeve -- Mahler with 'flair'. Both are great.
von Karajan
DG 486 3845 (TOS)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqm52HXcK8k
Bernstein
DG 423 608-1 / Analogphonic LP43004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llHhw4h8odw
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I very much appreciate this, tima. I've had a number of Mahler recordings in my library for twenty odd years. I haven't really cracked the code or found the key if you like but maybe now. Over the last few days I've of course enjoyed the Karajan 5 TOS, but also the Karajan Gold 9, the Rattle and CBSO 2 and the Boulez Vienna live 2 (probably a transmission of a Vienna festival concert on 31. May 2005. It's the same forces as the DG Studio recording). I should add that the Redbook layer on the Boulez 3 (Mvt 1 and Es sunget...) is one of my hifi tests.
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That's great!
I'm curious if A'zon did a great job of the packaging for safe shipment? I'm expecting the Trout and the Requiem to arrive within the next couple of days via A'zon... my first time ordering from them.
Would love to hear your listening impressions of the recording if you'd like to share with us
Best wishes
Don
Lately amazon has been putting the lp in a cardboard 'sleeve' form-fitting box and then mounting that box inside a much larger box. Very securely shipped, albeit with more cardboard than I'd like.That's great!
I'm curious if A'zon did a great job of the packaging for safe shipment? I'm expecting the Trout and the Requiem to arrive within the next couple of days via A'zon... my first time ordering from them.
Would love to hear your listening impressions of the recording if you'd like to share with us
Best wishes
Don
I find a lot of complex entanglement with Mahler… the 5th does follow a trajectory starting at death and darkness and moving back into light just like Beethoven’s 5th and was a bridging point for moving to a new phase of life and approach for Mahler and a new century… and Mahler isn’t everyday listening and experiencing a little goes a long way.
Even Walter and Klemperer, the two conductors closest to a direct transmission from Mahler play Mahler differently (though both with more classical restraint than either Bernstein or Barshai) and yet nether of them recorded a full symphony cycle of Mahler. Bruno Walter rehearsed the first 8th assisting directly for Mahler and then premiered the 9th after being with Gustav Mahler when Mahler passed away.
What we have of Walter’s performances of Mahler symphonies 1st, 2nd, 5th and 9th are reference performances as are Klemperer’s 2nd, 4th, 7th and 9th. It would have been particularly invaluable to get a whole cycle of Mahler symphonies from either of them. I find you can learn a lot about a composer by hearing a benchmark conductor’s cycle of their work as a whole perspective.
Kubelik, Abbado, Chailly, Bernstein and Karajan form up as some of the great recorded Mahler symphony performance cycles.
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So, I just spent the last few of hours listening to the 1st and 2nd movements of the Beethoven's 7th on a few of the various lp's that I have all of which are in NM condition on quiet vinyl...
Kleiber/Wiener Philharmoniker - The Original Source Series 2023 reissue.
Wojciech Rajski/Polish Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra - recorded in the church of Stella Maris, Poland in 2005 - Tacet L149
Karajan/ViennaPhilharmonic recorded in Vienna - Living Stereo RCA Red Seal LSC2536 1961 Shaded Dog
Karajan/Vienna Philharmonic - London FFrr STS 15107 - 1971 - Label says made in London - The Decca Record Co, LTD
Guido Cantelli/Philharmonia Orchestra - EMI ASD254 - Made in Great Britain
It's always interesting listening to different recordings and pressings and seeing which "performances" one might prefer, which recording "sounds" better, etc.
***So just a really quick synopsis of my listening impressions, and please keep in mind... I am not an audio reviewer or music critic by any means and there are a great many of you here that know much more about the various conductors/orchestras/recordings than I'll ever know.***
I really enjoyed the Kleiber /Original Source Series performance. I found it to be very engaging and done very well. This recording is interesting as it has an excellent transparency about it. You get the sense that you are sitting in the hall but up closer, like within the first 10 rows of my local orchestral halls. You can clearly hear the bows on the strings, there is a bite to it, so to speak and when you sit closer to the orchestra you can hear that aspect more clearly. Because of the transparency, you can hear and feel the dynamics better as well as it seems like at times certain sections of the orchestra can almost seem spot lighted more intensely.... again similar when sitting up closer to the orchestra. At the end of the first movement, my wife yells out "Bravo" from a couple rooms over I am very happy to have this recording.
Rajski/Polish Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra recorded in Poland on the Tacet Label. I'm not aware that they enjoy the same notoriety that the others share, but don't let that keep you from giving them a serious listen. I actually enjoyed this performance a lot! It was very dynamic, but what impressed me was the range of the dynamic shadings that Rajski was able to coax out of the Polish Chamber. They were much greater and intense than the Original Source recording. This recording was very transparent, very full and enveloping and very full range with a deeper lower end! I certainly felt as if you were sitting in the hall and you could hear and sense the acoustics of the hall very well. But as opposed to the Original Source recording, here it felt like you were sitting mid hall. You could clearly hear and differentiate the various sections of the orchestra, but they were not spotlit. You didn't hear the up close bite of the bow across the strings as much, but more so the beauty of the resultant sound of the stringed instrument's body and resonance. It was gorgeous! I can't say this of every Tacet recording, but I was absolutely captivated. I found myself wanting to conduct the orchestra! This is my favorite recording that I own of the 7th.
Karajan/Vienna Philharmonic recorded in Vienna. I have two pressings of this performance. RCA Living Stereo Shaded Dog 1961 and the London FFrr 1971. Imho, the Shaded Dog 1961 pressing blows the London out of the water. It has better dynamics and is fuller sounding. I actually prefer the performances of the Kleiber, as well as that of the Rajski, better than Karajan. Also, when listening to each of the Karajan pressings... you feel like you are simply listening to a recording. I didn't get pulled into the session. No connection being made, pulling on my emotions.
Guido on EMI made in Great Britain - a different take on the performance... not sure that I liked it all that much. Both Kleiber and Rajski seemed to really get the most out of their orchestras, letting you feel like you were more engaged. The sound of the Guido seemed more muddy or congested, lacking the transparency of the Original Source and the Tacet.
So at the end of the day... I certainly do think that the Original Source Beethoven 7th is definitely worth having in your music collection.
Best wishes to all,
Don
Kleiber/Wiener Philharmoniker - The Original Source Series 2023 reissue.
Wojciech Rajski/Polish Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra - recorded in the church of Stella Maris, Poland in 2005 - Tacet L149
Karajan/ViennaPhilharmonic recorded in Vienna - Living Stereo RCA Red Seal LSC2536 1961 Shaded Dog
Karajan/Vienna Philharmonic - London FFrr STS 15107 - 1971 - Label says made in London - The Decca Record Co, LTD
Guido Cantelli/Philharmonia Orchestra - EMI ASD254 - Made in Great Britain
It's always interesting listening to different recordings and pressings and seeing which "performances" one might prefer, which recording "sounds" better, etc.
***So just a really quick synopsis of my listening impressions, and please keep in mind... I am not an audio reviewer or music critic by any means and there are a great many of you here that know much more about the various conductors/orchestras/recordings than I'll ever know.***
I really enjoyed the Kleiber /Original Source Series performance. I found it to be very engaging and done very well. This recording is interesting as it has an excellent transparency about it. You get the sense that you are sitting in the hall but up closer, like within the first 10 rows of my local orchestral halls. You can clearly hear the bows on the strings, there is a bite to it, so to speak and when you sit closer to the orchestra you can hear that aspect more clearly. Because of the transparency, you can hear and feel the dynamics better as well as it seems like at times certain sections of the orchestra can almost seem spot lighted more intensely.... again similar when sitting up closer to the orchestra. At the end of the first movement, my wife yells out "Bravo" from a couple rooms over
I am very happy to have this recording.Rajski/Polish Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra recorded in Poland on the Tacet Label. I'm not aware that they enjoy the same notoriety that the others share, but don't let that keep you from giving them a serious listen. I actually enjoyed this performance a lot! It was very dynamic, but what impressed me was the range of the dynamic shadings that Rajski was able to coax out of the Polish Chamber. They were much greater and intense than the Original Source recording. This recording was very transparent, very full and enveloping and very full range with a deeper lower end! I certainly felt as if you were sitting in the hall and you could hear and sense the acoustics of the hall very well. But as opposed to the Original Source recording, here it felt like you were sitting mid hall. You could clearly hear and differentiate the various sections of the orchestra, but they were not spotlit. You didn't hear the up close bite of the bow across the strings as much, but more so the beauty of the resultant sound of the stringed instrument's body and resonance. It was gorgeous! I can't say this of every Tacet recording, but I was absolutely captivated. I found myself wanting to conduct the orchestra! This is my favorite recording that I own of the 7th.
Karajan/Vienna Philharmonic recorded in Vienna. I have two pressings of this performance. RCA Living Stereo Shaded Dog 1961 and the London FFrr 1971. Imho, the Shaded Dog 1961 pressing blows the London out of the water. It has better dynamics and is fuller sounding. I actually prefer the performances of the Kleiber, as well as that of the Rajski, better than Karajan. Also, when listening to each of the Karajan pressings... you feel like you are simply listening to a recording. I didn't get pulled into the session. No connection being made, pulling on my emotions.
Guido on EMI made in Great Britain - a different take on the performance... not sure that I liked it all that much. Both Kleiber and Rajski seemed to really get the most out of their orchestras, letting you feel like you were more engaged. The sound of the Guido seemed more muddy or congested, lacking the transparency of the Original Source and the Tacet.
So at the end of the day... I certainly do think that the Original Source Beethoven 7th is definitely worth having in your music collection.
Best wishes to all,
Don
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Thank you for this interesting comparison!
If you keep could only one record – – maximizing the sum of performance quality and recording quality – – which is your favorite?
If you keep could only one record – – maximizing the sum of performance quality and recording quality – – which is your favorite?
Hi Ron,
This is a great question! Again, please keep in mind... I am not an audio reviewer or music critic.... these were just thoughts from my listening impressions from the very few recordings of Beethoven's 7th that I currently have in my collection. I would be shocked if there were not better recordings of this work out there.
The other thing to keep in mind is that we are all individuals and as such, we all can hear things differently. Why? A lot of things can contribute to this.... from having different audio equipment, different listening room acoustics varying from over damped to very lively, different hearing abilities that can change over time with age or being exposed to excessively loud concerts or environmental noises, resulting in hearing losses at certain frequencies, etc.
And then, as individuals, we may place different values on the various aspects of a recording based on our own set of personal preferences. Are we more interested in the musicianship; or the musical interpretation of the conductor; or the soundstage being wide and deep; or the hall acoustics; or the intense amount of detail; or the amount of dynamic slam the recording has; or the dynamic shadings; or does it connect and resonate with your heart and soul?
At the end of the day, there is no right or wrong with any of the preferences listed above. It's all personally unique to your individual preferences and to what gives you the enjoyment of listening!
So with keeping all of those caveats in mind.... I just listened to the 3rd and 4th movements back to back between the Original Source and the Tacet.
I feel both recordings are very much worth having in your collection.
I feel both performances and the musicianship of both are very well done.
The sound of each recording is different though. Don't get me wrong... they are both recorded on very quiet vinyl, but the differences that "I" hear are...
1. The Original Source is recorded or pressed hotter and louder! It's like they are trying to ring every last drop out of the recording, never letting off the gas pedal. I can imagine that on some systems, it could possibly become fatiguing. It is very dynamic, but I feel lacking a little bit in the range of dynamic shadings. With the Tacet, it is not recorded as hot nor as loud. In fact, I have to turn my dual mono volume controls up 2 clicks to have similar volume as that of the Original Source. The Tacet is still very dynamic, but also has a greater range of the dynamic shadings which I really love. Imho, I believe the credit for this greater range in shadings goes to the conductor getting the most out of his orchestra, verses the capabilities of the person doing the pressing.
2. Secondly, the hall perspective is different on both recordings. The Original Source I feel you would be seated slightly closer to the orchestra as you hear more of the bite of the bow across the strings, you hear more intensely the various sections of the orchestra. With the Tacet I feel you are more mid hall for seating. Both recordings are very transparent. However, with the Tacet you hear more of the beauty of the resultant sound of the strings. You still hear and can differentiate between the various sections but they are not spot lit in any way. You hear more of the hall acoustics and reverberations. The sound is very full and enveloping. There is no fatigue with the Tacet recording, but yet it is still very engaging. With the Tacet it seems more natural and realistic from the perspective of my frequent attendance of my various local symphony concerts I attend regularly.
Which hall perspective you prefer is a matter of personal preference, as where you sit does drastically affect the resultant sound that you hear of the performance. Personally, for smaller chamber works or sonatas I like to sit closer, for big orchestral works I like sitting mid hall, but I hate being up in a balcony or especially sitting under a balcony where the sound gets truncated and muddied.
In conclusion....
I think both the Original Source and the Tacet recordings are very good and worth having. Are there better recordings of the 7th to be had? I would imagine so, but of the ones that I have, I enjoy these two.
I understand that some people may not like the Tacet recordings and I can certainly respect that. I have many Tacet recordings and there are some where I completely agree that the performances are very much lack luster and can be quite boring. Also, they are recorded more softly, so I find I often will have to turn up the volume a notch or two. But all of my Tacets are on very quiet vinyl and are transparent and usually full sounding. Although I might not enjoy all of my Tacet recordings, I do certainly enjoy this Beethoven 7th.
I guess this is my very long winded answer to your question.... for my set of personal preferences, regarding the Beethoven 7th, I will likely reach for the Tacet slightly more often than the Original Source recording. Although, depending on which hall perspective I might prefer on any given day I wouldn't be hesitating from listening to the Original Source. Again, I don't think you can go wrong with either recording.
I hope this helps a little bit
Best wishes,
Don
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