The new audiophile vinyl series The Original Source from Deutsche Grammophon (AAA)

[orfeo_monteverdi]

My understanding is that lacquers are more fragile than vinyl copies, and have a more limited lifetime of number of plays

- Original Source is a regular vinyl nothing special but high quality preserved on every stage of manufacturing. It’s cut from the master tape then the vinyl is pressed after 3 step (father-mother-stamper) plating process. That’s it’s disadvantage.

- Master Cut is a lacquer not a vinyl. It’s cut from a copy of the master tape not “the master tape”. On the other hand there is no additional process after cutting lacquer on a Neumann lathe. That’s it’s advantage but using a copy of the master tape is an important disadvantage.

Thanks, very clear. [update - not everyone agrees though, see hereafter]

Here is what I found regarding lacquers (= metal disc covered with acetate):

"Due to the material’s softness, playback causes substantial wear of the lacquers, which can therefore only be listened to a couple of times, in contrast to vinyl test pressings.​

For this reason, the master lacquers for production of LPs are not played pack." (Speaker Corner)​

 

[Zeotrope]

That’s not correct, regarding wear. That YouTube guy spreads misinformation- he’s got a bone to pick with Fremer over other matters.
There’s a test that was posted (you can find the link on the Supersense sight, in the FAQs) where the same Mastercut was played 100 times with no degradation in sound quality.
So at least for 100 plays there is no loss in quality from one of these Mastercut laquers (can’t speak for all laquers).
That said, they are more fragile: don’t wash them, don’t brush them (only an air brush is recommended) and be more careful when handling (you get cotton gloves in each album).

 

[mtemur]

Thanks, very clear.

Here is what I found regarding lacquers (= metal disc covered with acetate):

"Due to the material’s softness, playback causes substantial wear of the lacquers, which can therefore only be listened to a couple of times, in contrast to vinyl test pressings.​

For this reason, the master lacquers for production of LPs are not played pack." (Speaker Corner)​

Lacquers can be damaged easily, that is true. Playing them also cause some damage that’s a very well known fact but M. Fremer argues the opposite and I heard him playing a couple of lacquers in Munich last year. They were fantastic. I think lacquers are fragile but if you take good care of them they last very long.

 

[Kjetil]

The Original Source are also new downmixes from four track, whereas the Mastercuts are from the 70s downmixes.

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

[please forgive my poor English]

Regarding the AAA vs AA matter,

On emil-berliner-studios website, which produces those DG AAA "The Original Sound" series, there seem to be a slight inconsistency though. As a vinyl beginner, I am bit lost:

First, we can read that

"100% analogue listening experience​

Analog records made with analog master tapes – the Emil Berliner Studios crew uses the historic method with passion. »Pure Analogue« indicates exclusively analog productions where the complete signal chain includes no digital conversion whatsoever, from microphone to cutting stylus." (https://emil-berliner-studios.com/en/vinyl/pure-analogue)​

So, from that point, we, at WBF, qualify those pure analog as AAA (not just AA).

Then, from the paragraph Recent pure analogue releases, if you click on More... (which, in my understanding, means More Pure Analog, AAA, recordings)

...you get the whole "pure analogue" catalog, into which I see nevertheless some recordings explicitly stamped 'AA' (not AAA).
I don't understand. [UPDATE - no inconsistency at all: both AA and AAA are all analogs, see additional info by mtemur, hereafter]
EXAMPLES:
- Bruckner #7, Haitink (tagged "Vinyl Pure Analog" and "Direct To Disc" - link). I don't own it.
- Hilary Hahn, Retrospective (tagged "Vinyl Pure Analog" and "Direct To Disc", at least the last side - link) - I own it. And last but not least:
- Brahms Symphonien 1-4, Berliner Philharmoniker, Rattle (tagged "Vinyl Pure Analog" and "Direct To Disc", link ) - I own it, indeed tagged 'AA' on the box cover, adverstised as "direct ot disc" by Berliner Philharmoniker Recordings at the time (maybe even as pure analog, unless I'm very much mistaken).

​

As an aside, I'm a bit puzzled that I was convinced this last one (Brahms) was pure analog.​

In 2017, I exchanged a few emails with Felix Feustel (who in the meantime became the Head of the Berliner Philhamroniker label) as I was about to attend 2 important J-E Gardiner concerts in the Berlin Philharmony Concert Hall during the Monteverdi year (2017). I would not swear that Felix Feustel confirmed me that the Brahms set was indeed pure analog (but it is indeed Direct To Disc, recorded with 2 microphones, Blumlein array). I remember the video showing the cutting process in real time, during the concert (it was a live recording): the engineers just had to focus on fine-tuning the dynamic for the Neumann VMS80 cutting lathe (which has no embedded digital step indeed, I made a search at the time, and published a link on Analog Planet's Comments section, but I see now that my comment has been canceled).​

To my mind, it meant that the set was pure analog. I may be wrong. Anyway, that set is wonderful, with a book & pictures inside.​

 

[mtemur]

...you get the whole "pure analogue" catalog, into which I see nevertheless some recordings explicitly stamped 'AA' (not AAA).
I don't understand.

Both are all analog and AA is "technically" better than AAA in this case. Because AA releases are recorded direct to disc which eliminates tape recording process. AAA releases recorded to tape first then lacquers are cut from tape. AA releases are directly cut to lacquer. They are also live recordings due to requirements of direct to disc process. I have 2 of those direct to disc releases.

 

[Rocoa]

Hello,

Today I received a couple of albums.

 

[astrotoy]

I am a bit confused on the AA vs AAA designation. When I looked at the list of MasterCut lacquers. it looks like the albums were all recorded on tape, no direct to disc albums. Most of the labels recorded onto multitrack tapes, then mixed down to 2 track tapes. Then the 2 track tape is used to cut the lacquer. Is the multitrack tape the first A, then the 2 track mix down the second A and the lacquer the third A. For a normal record there are a lot more steps. Not sure how these are counted. Multitrack session tapes, mix down 2 track tape, cut to lacquer, then father, then mother, then stamper, then record. 7 A's? For the so called one-step records, it would be multitrack session tapes, mix down 2 track tape, cut to lacquer, father/stamper, record. 5 A's?

Larry

 

[Kjetil]

The last A includes all the steps needed to get from the master to the playable record.

SPARS code - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit: Sometimes there’s more complexity:

High Fidelity

www.highfidelity.pl

Edit 2: The new ADA Solti Wagner Ring LPs sound great.

 

[astrotoy]

The last A includes all the steps needed to get from the master to the playable record.

SPARS code - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit: Sometimes there’s more complexity:

High Fidelity

www.highfidelity.pl

Edit 2: The new ADA Solti Wagner Ring LPs sound great.

Thanks I found the new Ring information. Interesting that it is also in Atmos. I'll be interested in how well they did the tape restoration. When I was writing my Decca book a decade ago, I talked to several of the Decca engineers and senior staff. They told me that many of the original tapes were not in good shape after being overused with all the different reissues. Several years later, I was able to obtain a Russian copy of the production master used for a vinyl reissue which is quite fine condition (on 27 reels, 15ips 2 track on Svema tape fortunately tape in great condition). Larry

 

[Kjetil]

So far I’ve only heard Rheingold and Walküre. Rheingold is a real achievement. Impressive what you can do with DAW these days. I read somewhere, maybe in Sound on Sound, that Decca managed to “unbrittle” the original tapes long enough for transfer to digital by baking them before playback. Finding the right temperature and duration was trial and error.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Four LP's I ordered from Deutsche Grammophon a few months ago arrived this morning

 

[Rotatoubib]

So far I’ve only heard Rheingold and Walküre. Rheingold is a real achievement. Impressive what you can do with DAW these days. I read somewhere, maybe in Sound on Sound, that Decca managed to “unbrittle” the original tapes long enough for transfer to digital by baking them before playback. Finding the right temperature and duration was trial and error.

Is it vinyl or only digital?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Guess what the postman interrupted to present me my DGs?
No, not that. Gardening, lol.

 

[Kjetil]

^ @routatoubib The "new" Solti Ring is on Hybrid SACD, Vinyl and (on Bluray I believe) Atmos.

New releases:

Deutsche Grammophon Onlineshop

Deutsche Grammophon Shop - the official label store: Vinyl, CD, Special Editions & Merchandise. New releases, classics & more from DG in Berlin

store.deutschegrammophon.com

The Kubelik Ma Vlast is great orchestral music. Mine is the 1977 DG Resonance reissue. Being an audiophool I should buy this new one.

 

[astrotoy]

Is it vinyl or only digital?

From what I can see, it is both SACD (with atmos and 192/24) and vinyl. Not sure whether the vinyl is from the digital 192/24 or from the refurbished tape. My guess is that the refurbishment was done digitally, and the vinyl came from the digital. Just my guess. Larry

 

[Kjetil]

No note of any special (or analog) refurbishment on my SoltiRing LPs. They probably would not have sounded so good as they do then...

Gotta go. Chamber music at the post office they say...

 

[spiritofmusic]

Just popped Rite Of Spring on. I'm not exactly the best person to review a classical LP. But I can say I'm genuinely impressed with what I'm hearing.
The vinyl has a few ticks, but not enough to spoil enjoyment in any way.
Dynamics are excellent, some real jump moments, tonal colour seems really varied and textured. Staging is pleasantly wide and deep. Creamy and satisfyingly hefty.
Really happy to have picked this one up.
Onto the others.

 

[Zeotrope]

From what I can see, it is both SACD (with atmos and 192/24) and vinyl. Not sure whether the vinyl is from the digital 192/24 or from the refurbished tape. My guess is that the refurbishment was done digitally, and the vinyl came from the digital. Just my guess. Larry

I think the point of these “Original Source Series” albums is they are fully analog with no intermediate digital steps.

The Original Source Series

Deutsche Grammophon announces the launch of The Original Source - The new audiophile pure analogue vinyl series

www.the-original-source.com

 

[Kjetil]

@astrotoy's comment applies to the Decca Solti Wagner Ring reissue, @Zeotrope. The DG OSS is indeed fully analog, at least until it hits my preamplifier.