The new audiophile vinyl series The Original Source from Deutsche Grammophon (AAA)

[Kjetil]

And nobodys hair fell out when I menioned that I digitize these things?

 

[No Regrets]

And nobodys hair fell out when I menioned that I digitize these things?

Well, if you look at my avatar, you'd probably notice that I don't have much hair left to fall out

All I care about is that people are loving and enjoying music... I feel it's good for the soul! I could care less how people get to that end....whether it's via analog or digital, tubes or solid state, live or memorex, lol.

Best wishes to all,
Don

 

[oldvinyl]

And nobodys hair fell out when I menioned that I digitize these things?

It's not that kind of thread

Just wanted to share the info on these new reissues and the pleasure of listening to them.

Enjoy!

 

[Kjetil]

Sanity prevails!

 

[oeno]

The mistracking on some of the Original Source DG reissues—the second batch to be specific—seems to belong as much to the making of the records than to their playback, as explained here


https://trackingangle.com/features/...s-with-anothr-batch-of-original-source-titles


See also Rainer Maillard of DG’s comeback to the above review—quite illuminating:


https://trackingangle.com/features/rainer-maillard-comments

 

[No Regrets]

The mistracking on some of the Original Source DG reissues—the second batch to be specific—seems to belong as much to the making of the records than to their playback, as explained here


https://trackingangle.com/features/...s-with-anothr-batch-of-original-source-titles


See also Rainer Maillard of DG’s comeback to the above review—quite illuminating:


https://trackingangle.com/features/rainer-maillard-comments

That's more or less what I've been saying all along.... That I feel they are really pushing everything to the "limits", to the point that some systems may not be able to handle the "dynamics" by being recorded so "hot". Now, with this second batch... it may appear that they have gone past that threshold "limit" where even very top of the line high end systems might not be able to play through without some sort of distortion.

WHHYYY???? What's the point of having all those dynamics if it's just going to distort. That distortion takes the musical enjoyment out of listening to the record for me. I'm thinking I'm going to maybe cancel my Brahms order now. How disappointing... I was really looking forward to that one.

Best wishes to all,
Don

 

[kodomo]

Nice read, thanks for sharing. This is a great time for enthusiasts as we are included in all these processes and conversations about recordings.

I have listened to two of the records, Debussy/Ravel and Verdi. I also feel Debussy/Ravel is better in terms of sound quality, however the Verdi piece is no slouch, it still is a good recording. It is also a much harder piece to record. The thing is, Verdi's Requiem itself is a stunning piece and it takes you to places. The record allows that at my place, not holding it back and that is good enough for me.

I do not have the Brahms disc from this series but I have the 45rpm version of it from ORG that I got in 2011 or 2012. It is the Curzon/Szell/LSO recording from Decca. If you are looking for a dynamic pressing with great performance, this is it. I did not get to hear the original pressing but it would be surprising for me if the original bettered this 45rpm 2x12" version that is mastered from the analog tapes. Keep in mind a 1962LP with no ticks and pops is also very hard to find.

 

[tima]

See also Rainer Maillard of DG’s comeback to the above review—quite illuminating:

https://trackingangle.com/features/rainer-maillard-comments

This is an intelligent article on the various sources and types of possible distortion in the LP production and playback process. Thanks for posting the link!

If I read it correctly, there was mention of a stylus closer in shape to the cutting head stylus being better at tracing the groove. That makes sense to me. It would be interesting for those experiencing 'issues' or success with TOS LPs to report which cartridge they are using.

 

[bonzo75]

I do not have the Brahms disc from this series but I have the 45rpm version of it from ORG that I got in 2011 or 2012. It is the Curzon/Szell/LSO recording from Decca. If you are looking for a dynamic pressing with great performance, this is it. I did not get to hear the original pressing but it would be surprising for me if the original bettered this 45rpm 2x12" version that is mastered from the analog tapes. Keep in mind a 1962LP with no ticks and pops is also very hard to find.

ORG are so bad I would be surprised if the original doesn’t, even later presses, unless ticks and pops is all you are concerned about

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm really struggling with this recent batch. I've spent good time re-optimising my setup, but alas I can't get past these issues.

I have this third group of four on order, but I'm likely to pass on more. Shame, the sonics when they're on song are really monumental.

 

[No Regrets]

The mistracking on some of the Original Source DG reissues—the second batch to be specific—seems to belong as much to the making of the records than to their playback, as explained here


https://trackingangle.com/features/...s-with-anothr-batch-of-original-source-titles


See also Rainer Maillard of DG’s comeback to the above review—quite illuminating:


https://trackingangle.com/features/rainer-maillard-comments

@ oeno
Thank you for posting these links. Very informative, to say the least.

Thankfully I haven't had any issues with tracking the three records from this series that I have... Beethoven's 7th, the Trout and the Verdi.
However, with reading the above links... I'm not willing to take the chance on the Brahms 1&2. It's not worth it to me having a record that distorts periodically throughout the playing.... takes all of the enjoyment out of it for me. I have cancelled my order for the Brahms this morning... no harm was done as they were still waiting for it to become in-stock yet anyway.

It's really a pity, in my humble opinion... My hope is that with further issues within this series that they might reign things in just a little bit and stop trying to push the envelope.

Best wishes,
Don

 

[No Regrets]

This is an intelligent article on the various sources and types of possible distortion in the LP production and playback process. Thanks for posting the link!

If I read it correctly, there was mention of a stylus closer in shape to the cutting head stylus being better at tracing the groove. That makes sense to me. It would be interesting for those experiencing 'issues' or success with TOS LPs to report which cartridge they are using.

Of the three records that I currently have from this Original Source Series (Beethoven's 7th, Trout, Verdi) my cartridge, thankfully, has been able to track all of them without issue. With that being said, based on the reports listed above regarding the Brahms 1&2... I have cancelled my order for it, as it seems even the best of systems will still have trouble tracking it throughout various parts of the recording.

My cartridge is the Benz Micro Ruby ZH S-Class Zebrawood bodied MC cartridge.
Cartridge weight: 10.2g
Compliance: 15cu
Stylus shape: Microridge
Cantilever: Boron


Best wishes,
Don

 

[kodomo]

ORG are so bad I would be surprised if the original doesn’t, even later presses, unless ticks and pops is all you are concerned about

Maybe my experience is limited Kedar and maybe some pressings top these for sound quality, however, I really enjoy my ORG pressings and I have nearly all of the classical titles they have released. Did you listen to Albeniz: Suite Espanola, Mendelssohn: A midsummer nights dream, Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe. These titles sound really good at my place. I also have a lot of their jazz reissues and they gave me a lot of joy. too

When I deem a record "so bad" it is really far from what I hear from these 45rpm ORG reissues. I had many classical pressings that were so bad that they were unlistenable. There are so many reissues from all around the world that I can not figure out why and how these were pressed like that. My only concern is not ticks and pops unless they are so much so that they do not let me concentrate on music.

ps. I had some friends telling me Music Matters 45rpm Blue Note reissues were sounding bad too but having all of them (over 100 titles), there may be only 3 or 4 that I do not like and most of them are stellar sounding. I could never figure out why they thought so too. I had original Blue Note pressings and I am not ashamed to say I prefer these 45rpm reissues for sound quality.

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe my experience is limited Kedar and maybe some pressings top these for sound quality, however, I really enjoy my ORG pressings and I have nearly all of the classical titles they have released. Did you listen to Albeniz: Suite Espanola, Mendelssohn: A midsummer nights dream, Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe. These titles sound really good at my place. I also have a lot of their jazz reissues and they gave me a lot of joy. too

When I deem a record "so bad" it is really far from what I hear from these 45rpm ORG reissues. I had many classical pressings that were so bad that they were unlistenable. There are so many reissues from all around the world that I can not figure out why and how these were pressed like that. My only concern is not ticks and pops unless they are so much so that they do not let me concentrate on music.

ps. I had some friends telling me Music Matters 45rpm Blue Note reissues were sounding bad too but having all of them (over 100 titles), there may be only 3 or 4 that I do not like and most of them are stellar sounding. I could never figure out why they thought so too. I had original Blue Note pressings and I am not ashamed to say I prefer these 45rpm reissues for sound quality.

ORG is bad. There is nothing necessarily about 45s only that is better. Classic records 45s are good but that is classic records. In that case you might find 45 better than 33. I did the classical ORG and speaker corners compare to originals, SC and ORG have some common releases. For Albeniz Suite Espanola the Decca SXL is so much better, and it is the first UK edition but earlier editions were in EU. Mendelssohn Deccas are excellent.

This 45 vs 33 is a noob thing, sorry, audiophiles think that 45 is more information. Sonic quality is based on the master tape, the engineers and the equipment that is used. That's why when any of this is changed, the sonics drop.

 

[Solypsa]

This 45 vs 33 is a noob thing, sorry, audiophiles think that 45 is more information.

Same information, spread over greater distance. Like many things a theoretical advantage that turns out a variety of ways in real life

That's more or less what I've been saying all along.... That I feel they are really pushing everything to the "limits", to the point that some systems may not be able to handle the "dynamics" by being recorded so "hot".

It has been possible to cut an unplayable record for nearly the whole span of LP era. A good recording and then mastering engineer knows how to flirt with the limits without going past. Something those early masters were pretty good at...

 

[mtemur]

Maybe those originals (DECCAs) hardened after 60 years and they're not regular PVC but more like stone. Maybe their dynamic, lively sound is the result of hardening rather than mastering engineer's ability or equipment superiority.

 

[Solypsa]

Interesting. Could be then a happy accident. But anyway my comments are not to deify old technology but to celebrate skillful operators.

 

[No Regrets]

But anyway my comments are not to deify old technology but to celebrate skillful operators.

I agree 100% with this! I have many old original pressings dating back from the late 50's - 60's (from multiple recording labels) that sound full, rich, transparent, and dynamic without crossing over the thresholds and causing distortions, thereby allowing me to play thru the entire record rewarding me with much great pleasure and enjoyment.

Best wishes to all,
Don

 

[Kjetil]

Note to self: Get the Brahms anyway.

Addendum: I’m not really a superfan of Brahms. Some of it, like the Clarinet Trio, rubs me the wrong way. On the other hand I love the Liebesliederwaltzer. So, on the balance I opted out of the piano concertos album on release.
But with these discussions now in this thread and over at TA (thank you very much, everybody) there is no doubt, I’ve ordered it so that if it’s fine here I can boast and tell people with trouble that their equipment is incapable. I’m such a nice person.

P.S: Maybe I’ll like the music too. That would be a nice plus. D.S.

P.S2: I cannot find any research saying that pvc that has been stored properly like most classical LPs have should deteriorate at all. D.S.

 

[bonzo75]

Same information, spread over greater distance. Like many things a theoretical advantage that turns out a variety of ways in real life

My point was on playback information. For recording it is the same information over more distance, audiophiles think this will reflect into more insight when played back. This might be fine if you are comparing 45 apples to 33 apples (classic records), but not if you are comparing 45 apples to 33 oranges. Or, rather, 45 UK mango vs 33 Indian organic Alphonso