The Noob Linearity factor

[bonzo75]

Guys isnt there a possibility to give this very important topic another name .
I feel my country is dragged through the dirt as well .

Linear Noob is that something ??

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ok, NLF or LNF

 

[Robh3606]

What do you mean above 2k level? 2khz frequency or 2,000 people in attendance?

They are for all intent and purposes equivalent to ALTEC theater boxes think A7 with dual stacked 15's in one box. They are a reflex enclosure for their last octave or so and horn load the upper range which is usually bellow 1Kz. Very similar to the modern stacked dual 15 JBL's cinema boxes less the horn loading. See the attached photo.

Rob

 

[bonzo75]

What do you mean above 2k level? 2khz frequency or 2,000 people in attendance?

no 2k GBP. What is the Vandersteen lower model used price

 

[Lee]

They are for all intent and purposes equivalent to ALTEC theater boxes think A7 with dual stacked 15's in one box. They are a reflex enclosure for their last octave or so and horn load the upper range which is usually bellow 1Kz. Very similar to the modern stacked dual 15 JBL's cinema boxes less the horn loading. See the attached photo.

Rob

I believe Western Electric used Altecs at the Munich show in 2018.

 

[Lee]

no 2k GBP. What is the Vandersteen lower model used price

Ah okay.

 

[bonzo75]

They are for all intent and purposes equivalent to ALTEC theater boxes think A7 with dual stacked 15's in one box. They are a reflex enclosure for their last octave or so and horn load the upper range which is usually bellow 1Kz. Very similar to the modern stacked dual 15 JBL's cinema boxes less the horn loading. See the attached photo.

Rob

I think you are looking too much at my old rock pics. When I say Altec dial FLH I refer to the 817. The pictures are to show Altecs were generally used for rock. You can’t have the same multi speaker set up for a concert hall that you will have for a studio. The 817 horn loading goes down lower than A5 or A7.

 

[Al M.]

no 2k GBP. What is the Vandersteen lower model used price

I thought you had been impressed with Mike Lavigne's cone speakers playing Led Zeppelin.

So in terms of bass, in your current view they don't perform better on rock than cone speakers at that price? And they are much worse on rock than dual FLH?

 

[bonzo75]

I thought you had been impressed with Mike Lavigne's cone speakers playing Led Zeppelin.

So in terms of bass, in your current view they don't perform better on rock than cone speakers at that price? And they are much worse on rock than dual FLH?

Oh they do better than those cones of course. As do Stenheims, for example, or Henk's Apogee grands. But dual FLH are going to cost way lower, hence my point either get the basic Vandy, and if you want to upgrade, get the dual FLH. In fact, this is what I addressed in the OP. If you own the lower priced Vandy, you might get another cone at higher price and think this is better, so keep chasing cones all the way to 200k, when at a certain level you could have taken a sharp exit to dual FLH.

 

[the sound of Tao]

That's me! I am a proud planar/tube noob (a "PTN")!

I was but I moobed… am now a HAS OB/toob noob

 

[the sound of Tao]

I do see a sense of phase in gear preference and that ties in with shifts in music preference focus for me and also related to shifts in personal life circumstances and phases of life.

I’m not sure that some being quite glacial in movement or super narrow band and fixed in focus and others being more widely dynamic in their swings and more highly mutable that either way is necessarily right or wrong but maybe a reflection of individual needs and process making for different pathways and outcomes.

Also some clearly want to be highly conscious about this journey while others don’t feel the need to be. Instinct can be a great navigational tool… for me it’s the alpha and omega of my compass (I do stay conscious in the middle) and ultimate proof of performance might be as simple as reflecting on if you have many years of being happy with your hobby (or is that hooby) and in the experiences it has fed you and the direction that it has gone.

 

[Al M.]

I’m not sure that some being quite glacial in movement or super narrow band and fixed in focus and others being more widely dynamic in their swings and more highly mutable that either way is necessarily right or wrong but maybe a reflection of individual needs and process making for different pathways and outcomes.

Well said. What a human response.

What a refreshing contrast with the superior-minded attitude of some here who think they know better for everyone.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Well said. What a human response.

What a refreshing contrast with the superior-minded attitude of some here who think they know better for everyone.

Thanks Al, i figure that life teaches is how little we really know most every day… OMG otherwise there would be no journey

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

 

[JackD201]

The excursion style of a cone woofer in a closed cabinet is quite fake compared to the excursion style of a dual FLH, just the impact, weight, etc.

Ask them

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A perfect example of your naïveté

 

[bonzo75]

A perfect example of your naïveté

Just put up a video of your preferred cone example Jack.

 

[JackD201]

Just put up a video of your preferred cone example Jack.

Here is the thing Ked and it is something everyone should consider. Let's take you as an example. Granted the best bass you have encountered has been from your visit of audiophiles who use the 817. Do I have any issues with the 817? Hell no. The issue is that these people you visited don't just have 817s, more importantly, they have been able to make a long throw design work in an application they were not designed for. Look at the difference in amplification between what they were originally designed to be used with in their designed setting just to start with. So as I said when I came back to the forum, give credit where credit is due, to the people that have been making moves like this work instead of the piece of kit itself. That's why I said you are a poor self appointed ambassador to the movement. You have shown little or no appreciation of all the little things that have been done which extends down to choices like which coupling caps or which resistors, even the required soldering skills when any minute mistake is magnified precisely because the speakers are very sensitive. No. You are looking at the album art and ignoring the sheet music. Hence the naivete.

The best bass will never be a "product" it will always be about execution to attain a certain goal. Horses for courses will always apply. I have always said that when it comes to rock I will always prefer large paper cones. Does that mean they can't do other genre's well or equally well? No. It only means I think they do Rock better than ceramic, plastics, metals or whatever other cone materials are used. It also doesn't absolve paper for its own set of challenges. There's a difference between comparing a driver with itself and others.

In my case right now referring only to my main system. Am I getting the best possible bass? I don't know obviously. It isn't even the best bass I've had. My older speakers which were the same size in terms of driver complement and displacement had bass that was much more impressive. What I gained was more purity of tone and an over all sense of better cohesion. In other words it's a work in progress, gained lots lost a little. The work being mainly cart and speaker settings for now. It is at a state where I can listen to anything in my collection without me wanting to pull hot pokers out of my eyes. Not best, but more than good enough for now.

Plainly stated Ked is that while you may think yourself the herald for horns and SET, the fact is you are very late to the party. These guys have been rockin' long before you came around and given we've known them and have been friends to many of them, you certainly weren't the one who introduced them to the world.

You may love 817s and they do deserve love but how sure are you that you can make them work in your own space? How sure are you that with your list of someday gear they will actually work together well? You won't know until you've actually worked on making that happen. Can you not sacrifice the cost of one or two transatlantic trips to get going? Your problem is that you have simply been mooching on the hard work of others because you have done only half the work. Now that you've enjoyed your epiphany, stop yapping and pay your dues.

As for your insistence on videos, that is where you are the most naive. A phone microphone is incapable of picking up infrasonics. Listening on headphones, will not allow you to feel the pressure waves on your skin and hair follicles all part of the whole "hearing" process. You will be able to decode the formants and some texture to make the exercise useful but only to an extent that might suggest further investigation but not anything concrete. You got a lot from the video you posted because you were there. All I'm getting is that it sounds good from my laptop speakers. Giving you a video taken with my phone as some kind of proof would unfortunately be like giving a box cutter to a toddler.

 

[Ligriv]

Just put up a video of your preferred cone example Jack.

Very impressive.

 

[Al M.]

Very impressive.

In which way?

 

[bonzo75]

In which way?

If you can't hear it, what's the point in pointing out. It is obvious to the ones who can. There is nothing to do with fine hearing that can be missed out or needs to be pointed out

 

[Al M.]

If you can't hear it, what's the point in pointing out. It is obvious to the ones who can. There is nothing to do with fine hearing that can be missed out or needs to be pointed out

Lazy answer.