The official audio myth busting thread

[NorthStar]

Why did he bail on this forum?

Because like you, too many dignified members objected to his audio philosophy. :b
So, they voted him out. May god forgive them; they didn't know what they were doing, or they just knew too much about their own audio philosophy.

 

[Al M.]

Without them, the test would be pointless, as the vinyl guys think the digital guys have poorly trained ears, which is why we don't prefer vinyl. And the digital guys already know digital is better.

Well, I'm a digital guy and know that digital is not per se better. But you wouldn't know that of course, having never heard SOTA analog. Digital may measure better but that's beside the point of course. If listening does not confirm the measurements then these are insufficient, not the other way around.

Yet having heard what I did is also why I am also curious about the test, and I applaud your initiative.

 

[Gregadd]

No I think it was the way he presented his philosophy. The only person on a par with him in representing the objectivist camp is Amir, who seems to have momentarily taken leave of his humility.

 

[Blizzard]

Because like you, too many dignified members objected to his audio philosophy. :b
So, they voted him out. May god forgive them; they didn't know what they were doing, or they just knew too much about their own audio philosophy.

I just read what happened. He was ostracized for having a viewpoint that differed from the majority, and it led to a banning.

 

[Blizzard]

Well, I'm a digital guy and know that digital is not per se better. But you wouldn't know that of course, having never heard SOTA analog. Digital may measure better but that's beside the point of course. If listening does not confirm the measurements then these are insufficient, not the other way around.

Yet having heard what I did is also why I am also curious about the test, and I applaud your initiative.

Why don't we let the true masters of audio decide? I'm not worthy, and I have admitted this already.

 

[RBFC]

Because like you, too many dignified members objected to his audio philosophy. :b
So, they voted him out. May god forgive them; they didn't know what they were doing, or they just knew too much about their own audio philosophy.

Bob, this is patently untrue. Ethan was banned in 2014 for repeated violations of the TOS. Please refrain from providing misleading information.

Lee

 

[Al M.]

No I think it was the way he presented his philosophy.

Yes, there were problems with that.

However, I did learn something from Ethan, about vinyl, 'air' and dynamic compression of high frequencies in the vinyl mastering process, and I appreciate and applaud him for that.

 

[Al M.]

Why don't we let the true masters of audio decide?

Who are the true masters of audio? The self-proclaimed ones?

 

[Blizzard]

Who are the true masters of audio? The self-proclaimed ones?

Well lot's of them around here. No need to mention names. If you have a vinyl setup of at least 5 figures, that you find superior to all digital you've ever heard, you're perfect for the panel.

 

[amirm]

Who are the true masters of audio? The self-proclaimed ones?

Me, Me, Me!!! I don't know why I have to keep saying it....

 

[Al M.]

Me, Me, Me!!! I don't know why I have to keep saying it....

Hehe. Thanks for a good laugh!

 

[TBone]

Me, Me, Me!!! I don't know why I have to keep saying it....

A long time ago, I adopted a big male Siamese cat, named him Mr.Misuer.

Guest would query, why the Mr?

I'd answer; on adoption, I was warned his prior owner claimed he'd often "demand" respect.

 

[c1ferrari]

Yes, the way music makes you feel is important right? Monitoring brain activity when listening seems like it could have merit.

Indeed, neurological metabolic activity whilst listening to one's favorite music. Perhaps, there's an NIH grant out there...somewhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron_emission_tomography

 

[Blizzard]

Bob, this is patently untrue. Ethan was banned in 2014 for repeated violations of the TOS. Please refrain from providing misleading information.

Lee

Euphemism for a good old fashioned "audiophile cleansing"

However I do agree his rig wasn't true "audiophile standard" Pioneer receiver and all.

 

[Al M.]

Yes, the way music makes you feel is important right? Monitoring brain activity when listening seems like it could have merit.

As I can listen to it for many hours at a time I do not develop fatigue at all with my digital, others do. It depends on your sensitivities I guess, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way at all.

However, listening to unamplified live music puts things in perspective. Yes, often it can sound very smooth and 'clean', but perhaps equally often it sounds hard and even 'distorted' -- all depending on venue and seating position. Just close your eyes to suppress expectation bias from seeing the musicians playing, just listen, and it becomes evident. I have heard live sounds from unamplified instruments that, if they could be properly reproduced over a stereo system (very difficult to do), would make many an audiophile run out of the room screaming "distortion!".

 

[PeterA]

In order for this test to truly have any impact, we would need a panel of highly regarded, self proclaimed golden eared vinyl enthusiasts to come for the auditions. Without them, the test would be pointless, as the vinyl guys think the digital guys have poorly trained ears, which is why we don't prefer vinyl. And the digital guys already know digital is better.

With all due respect, this statement in bold is simply not true and a wild assumption, IMO. Al M. has very good ears, though I don't know if they are "trained". I don't even know what that means. Al is a digital guy and I am a vinyl guy who highly respects his listening skills. That is in part because he listens very carefully to both reproduced and live music. The guy who was just at MadFloyd's house is also a digital only guy, and as a vinyl guy, I highly respect his ears and listening skills. He just compared your recommended digital set up to Ian's analog. So, speaking only for myself, I disagree with your gross generalization. On what do you base your statement?

I do think your approach to the needle drop might work.

 

[Blizzard]

With all due respect, this statement in bold is simply not true and a wild assumption, IMO. Al M. has very good ears, though I don't know if they are "trained". I don't even know what that means. Al is a digital guy and I am a vinyl guy who highly respects his listening skills. That is in part because he listens very carefully to both reproduced and live music. The guy who was just at MadFloyd's house is also a digital only guy, and as a vinyl guy, I highly respect his ears and listening skills. He just compared your recommended digital set up to Ian's analog. So, speaking only for myself, I disagree with your gross generalization. On what do you base your statement?

I do think your approach to the needle drop might work.

I'm basing my statement on what many around here say. Never said you in particular. There seems to be a popular consensus that it takes vinyl to achieve the very best in audio. So what that means to me is if I think digital can do better, my ears must be poorly trained. Or I lack listening experience. I hear this everyday around here. Yet the same guys who say it, would never join the panel for this challenge.

 

[PeterA]

When and where will the test take place? And who will host it? Like Al M., I fully support this kind of endeavor and am sure much will be learned.

Blizzard, I, and others, would like to know when and where this test will take place. Have you set it up? Some of your posts infer that it will take place in Seattle and that the arrangements have been made. Could you share the details?

 

[Blizzard]

Originally Posted by tomelex

I agree with the idea of recording from the phono output, and while I think I have read all these pages in this thread, I do want to remind that cartridges have spikes and spurious outputs (passed on by the phono amps) well out to 30khz and more. There are also low frequency anomalies (but digital handles those no problem), so just saying that those spurious high frequency signals if passed through a digital device with a steep filter will then not pass on to the rest of the analog chain, and henceforth there will be less IMD effects, so the broader the frequency range of the digital the better IMO for this test. Those HF signals can IMD back into the audio band and that may be audible depending on their amplitude etc. just sayin incase we have not thought that through.

Also, an astute listener will be able to hear the different noises from each replay of the LP, since LP sounds different each time it is played, so that is also a bit of a trouble spot in this test, LP NEVER plays the exact output each time.

Also, when you que into or end a song, the lp will have different noises in those quiet areas too, so that is another thing to consider due to the variability of LP playback.

Years ago when we did home made a/b testing, we use the preamp output to record from so folks did not hear the lead in and out of the songs, ie you bring up the volume a few seconds into the song and close it down a few seconds before the song ends, this was when we strictly used LP as our source only, because the lead in and out never sounded the same due to the groove noise.

Anyway, the more precautions you take the better for this test to have validity. The reason the losing side will give for results not as they expected was the system was not transparent or revealing enough, despite your process looks good enough to me, just sayin.

The vinyl rig will be their choice. It will be something they all consider to be cutting edge. Any tell tale signs of flaws made with the recording process, will be a dead giveaway that it's not the record playing on the turntable. So if anything, it will be in their favour. So I agree it will be critical that everything is done flawlessly. Rehearsals will need to be preformed by us mediocre eared digital fans beforehand, before we open the floodgates for the real golden ears.

 

[Blizzard]

Blizzard, I, and others, would like to know when and where this test will take place. Have you set it up? Some of your posts infer that it will take place in Seattle and that the arrangements have been made. Could you share the details?

Before it's even worthwhile to make the plans, we need to assemble a panel of vinyl diehards willing to volunteer their services in the name of better audio for all. Once we have that in place, we can move forward with the arrangements. But keep in mind, the panel will need to consist of audiophiles well known for their opinion of vinyl being superior to digital for this to be worthwhile.