The official audio myth busting thread
- Thread starter Blizzard
- Start date
Sounds like a cop out if I've ever heard one. Bock bock bock!!
Mike Davis, I didn't comment from that top quote above (yours), but I knew that some members would feel similar to what Bruce just expressed below you.
* Opportunity like this is precious, calculated balance between serious and humorous is also precious.
Bruce B. and Mike Lavigne are real nice people, asset people to read/learn/exchange with, very.
Yes and we need to loosen up a bit. There should be no tension at all with any of this discussion. We are discussing audio formats, not the music itself, not family members, or anything that anyone should take personally. If were discussing cars, sports teams or anything like that, friendly banter and light hearted joking around between grown men would be perfectly acceptable. But when it comes to the topic of anything analog, it must be kept strictly formal. Like we are in a court room talking to a judge or something.
The only reason I'm even trying to challenge analog gear in the first place is because while I was discussing cool new ways to process digital, they were the ones coming after me, telling me that vinyl was superior. I have been told I'm clueless and have no experience with anything right from day 1 from these guys. They came attacking me, not vice versa.
What about the myth of PCM upsampled into DSD being superior or vis versa? That would make for an interesting blinded comparison and one that could be done at your homestead Mike.....
What about the myth of PCM upsampled into DSD being superior or vis versa? That would make for an interesting blinded comparison and one that could be done at your homestead Mike.....
Well I have already busted that myth. What matters is the algorithms that are used. With the right algorithms, it sounds much better. Of course you need a DSD compatible DAC to do this. If it's PCM only, it won't sound very good. And yes it all depends on the DAC chip, or if it's chipless DSD or not. If it's chipless DSD, then you must resample the PCM to DSD to even listen to it. If it's an SDM chip, then it's being converted to SDM somewhere in the chain either way, whether it's internally in the chip, or on a PC. By doing the conversion upstream on a PC, it just bypasses the process in the chip.
You have to put that hypothesis to the test in a blinded fashion. You can't just blow smoke "like the golden eared vinyl crowd...."
You have to put that hypothesis to the test in a blinded fashion. You can't just blow smoke "like the golden eared vinyl crowd...."
The difference in sound is so profound, it doesn't need to be blinded. Give it a try yourself. It's no secret that different filters sound different. They also measure different as well. So it can be backed up subjectively and objectively. The new ESS 9038PRO chip has 8 different customizable filter options, along with IIR DSP built in. If changing the filters made no difference in sound, they wouldn't have them, let alone making them user customizable. It's not a feature that's just added on for nothing.
Here's a really good explanation of how digital filters work here. And it makes no difference where they are applied, in a DAC chip, FPGA, DSP chip, or PC, it's all the same thing:
http://www.resonessencelabs.com/digital-filters/
And here's some info on Delta Sigma modulation. Same applies with it, no matter where it's done, it works the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-sigma_modulation
Analog soubuds different from digital..thats a given , and you need not test for that
AD'd analog vs analog is whats being tested .. for what reason I dunno .. most analog lovers would shudder at the thought.
However i have done it , with a simple 24/96 convertor and I can tell you that you cannot hear any difference tween the digitised vs the pure analog signal
Regardless of that -- I would rather have my analog unmolested if I had any.
AD'd analog vs analog is whats being tested .. for what reason I dunno .. most analog lovers would shudder at the thought.
However i have done it , with a simple 24/96 convertor and I can tell you that you cannot hear any difference tween the digitised vs the pure analog signal
Regardless of that -- I would rather have my analog unmolested if I had any.
You know that unless digitally recorded in the first place, all digital files are analog sourced anyways. Only they are done at a studio, by trained professionals, using top notch gear, and master tapes at their disposal.
And if they were originally digitally recorded, leaving them digital is the best thing to do.
Sounds like a cop out if I've ever heard one. Bock bock bock!!
Blizzard/Mike,
Actually, I had thought that Mike Lavigne had been too chickeny about this, but then, after reading his post, I thought his reasons for not doing the test were reasonable, and I applaud him for his post. You should read it again, honestly, you could learn from it.
You really do antagonize people, and your above reaction to his post proves it once more. You said that it was 'joking' or 'light-hearted' but it really doesn't come across that way. Rather:
1. your 'explanation' of it seems a huge copout itself, and
2. you really come across as a total ass
Your people skills are absolutely zero, or better, minus 1000.
You really need to grow up and work on your expression as human being and on your interaction with people.
***
Having said all that:
A big thumbs up to you and thank you for recommending the NADAC to Madfloyd!! It seems to be great, and I cannot wait to hear it. I told you I was open-minded, and even recommended it to Ian (Madfloyd) following your recommendation and link to that Positive Feedback article.
I also very much appreciate your help with Ian's set-up for the PCM --> DSD conversion in HQPlayer, which appears to be crucial to get the best out of the NADAC's performance. Ian had already thanked you publicly and so do I.
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You just have to get over your antagonizing people, and it will be all good. Your message will be heard much more. You really don't help yourself with how you currently present yourself and interact with people on WBF.
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Yeah people skills take a nosedive after a while of being relentlessly attacked just for sharing innovative ideas. And yes Mike knows the best excuses in the book to turn things around. I wouldn't even know who he was if he didn't start attacking my integrity early on in my membership here.
And speaking of madfloyd, I don't recall any conflict with him. I wonder why? And look, he's probably the happiest guy on the forum today. Well him and Lateboomer who just got his streamer going. And Chopchopbin who got his streamer going yesterday. Actually everyone who got there streamers going. For some reason, never any conflicts with so many. It must be me.
And yes I find being straight up and honest attracts the folks I want to talk to efficiently, and effectively. Anyone that doesn't like it, doesn't need to come for a visit.
No, Mike, you have been antagonizing from Day One, or soon after that. Please don't come up with excuses again, and don't dismiss what I said about your people skills. It's for your own good. Amir also was supportive of Mike L.'s post.
Yes, alas it's you indeed.
***
PS: I have edited my previous post in order to highlight my appreciation also for your help with the HQPlayer set-up.
You didn't even know who I was till a couple weeks ago on the Analogue warmth thread. You said so yourself. I know what went down, and I will decide how I handle myself. the way I see it, you have been antagonizing me ever since our first encounter. I don't go around commenting negative things on your threads, but you sure do on mine.
Considering you are talking personalities , your way of putting things across is what aggravates .. you continually phoo phoo others ideas and are way too forceful and are never wrong...
You could have achieved much more with a softly softly approach as you undoubtedly have the knowledge..you catch flies with honey , not vinegar..
You could have achieved much more with a softly softly approach as you undoubtedly have the knowledge..you catch flies with honey , not vinegar..
I honestly express my thoughts based on my experience and research. People keep saying I'm doing everything wrong, but I'm achieving my goals efficiently and effectively, and making piles of awesome friends while I'm at it. I really don't know what the problem is.
And yeah, I'm not a big fan of flies. Flies are attracted to sh.t not honey. Last thing I want to do is attract more. I'm not running for mayor, I am free to express myself openly and honestly.
Well, I had heard plenty things about you, so I knew what was coming.
BTW, as you can also see from Rodney's post, among many others, I am not the only one admonishing you.
It's really you who is the problem, Mike. Everybody who speaks up about the issue tells you that, except perhaps Bob (Northstar). And as for me antagonizing you, that was just in response to your antics, and I have had confrontations like that with nobody else on WBF, ever.
Wonder why that would be...
On the other hand, you had constant confrontations on WBF with many people. See the difference?
One thing is to be open and honest, another one to be a total ass. It speaks to your personality that you have no clue what the difference is.
I have a great solution for you, if you don't like how I express myself, stay out of Blizzard's corner. It's not for everyone. I don't hang around places that I don't like, why should you?
Do you hang around with people you don't like in person as well?
re-read the sign on the door:
"A forum where anything can be discussed, but you better come prepared."
That is very good advice, except that you posed a listening challenge that involved people that usually don't like to hang around your Blizzard's Corner. And don't forget, my friend, that I supported your challenge.
I also showed appreciation to you for the NADAC recommendation and for the HQPlayer set-up in Madfloyd's system.
But perhaps I should stay out of your Corner. As long as you also stay out of other threads that are not in your corner, like the current "State of High End Audio" thread. In fact, you are obliged to, acccording to your arrangement with WBF.
Just leave the negative comments on the doorstep before you come in then. If you haven't noticed, negative comments always get a negative response. You are not helping anyone, or anything here. And there's nothing personal about the challenges here.
We are talking about lifeless inanimate audio formats, and gear. Material objects. Not flesh and blood.
I only have negative reactions to negative personal comments, where as others have personal emotional negative reactions to negative comments about lifeless inanimate audio formats, or audio gear. Material objects.
This is the difference you fail to see.
I will always response positively to positivity, and negative to negativity.
Well, I was trying to help you with seeing the flaws in your attitude, as many others have tried as well, but obviously it has fallen on deaf ears. In your view, it's always other people's fault (sigh).
Regardless, I will from now on stay out of your Corner, or at least refrain from criticizing you, as long as you stay out of any thread that is not in your Corner as well. Which you have not done, but which you have to do according your arrangement with WBF. In fact, I will make sure that this is strictly enforced.
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