The official audio myth busting thread

[853guy]

Anyone who has anything to say that's not right in line with the status quo, deals with constant criticism. To me criticism is a sign that you're doing something right. So keep it up Bonzo, because I love the support

Hi Blizz,

Or, you know, the criticism could actually be justified, and you could be doing something wrong. Hmm.

The problem with being a self-appointed saviour, is that it’s not often long before one becomes a self-appointed martyr, convinced the world is too blind/disbelieving/stupid to see the “truth” the saviour wishes to impart to all and sundry.

Convinced their mission of “truth telling” to be wasted on those who have not accepted the message (and the messenger), they instead decide their new mission is to lay waste to anyone who opposes this “great truth”, using whatever ideological excuse they can find in an ends-justifies-the-means approach.

Possibly, you’re better than all that.

But right now, you have no skin in the game, my friend. You’re just some guy on the internet, like, giving advice. And when people don’t follow it to the “T”, you then up the stakes in an attempt to convince everyone just how mistaken they all really are. Well, it doesn’t take a genius to do that. Just a dick head (I know, I’m a recovering one myself). Your sig references scaring people away from your products - the great irony… you don’t have one.

Build a product, Blizz. Bring it to market. Back it up with incredible tech and customer support. The world could do with more innovative products. Guys on the internet making themselves into martyrs because no one wants to join in their game, much less so.

As always, I wish you the best in all your endeavours, both professional and personal.

Love and hugs,

Just Some Guy On The Internet

 

[Gregadd]

An ad for what. Digital? Is it something new that I'm promoting to the world? If passenger pigeon's weren't extinct today, would you use email?

Your ad for "golden ear vinyl lovers "come be proven foolish on videotape to be posted on you tube.
In regard to your second question there a countless examples where new technology is not optimum for certain applications. For example I hate e vite. I still send handwritten thank you notes.

 

[PeterA]

While I appreciate the idea that some folks think analog types appreciate analog (vinyl particularily) for the way it enhances the signal, for this test, actually, it comes down to any person hearing a difference between the real thing and the digital recording of it, and that only requires listening skills. Folks that prefer the enhancements of LP don't have different ears than folks that like or mostly have digital gear. Its a hearing test when it is all boiled down, and that is what scares lots of folks off. I have not the time off to do this but would love to do it, because I do believe in my ears momentary ability to discern between two different sources. I have done this many, many times. I would not however, go up against Amir in finding digital artifacts, but then again, I am happy not to key in on artifacts as part of my every day general listening which is for enjoyment not analysis.

Great post, tomelex.

 

[Al M.]

? Me too I want to share Al. * It's a delicate act to interpret words that were obviously humorous. I disagree with the misinterpretation.

It was obviously written as an offense to Mike L.. I am not particular friends with Mike L. -- I have never met him -- but this was just an incredibly rude and cheap cop-out answer to very well and gentleman-like formulated criticism. I have a hard time letting this stand.

I know, Bob, you always try to see the good in other people. This is praiseworthy, but there is a disconnect when you always try to see the good in other people up to a fault. Trying to make it nice with everybody becomes untenable when it is obviously one party that is the problem.

Couple words here I find harsh, and unwarranted, in my sincere opinion. Mike is not a kid, he's a man, and it would hurt me deeply to have someone telling me to grow up, very.

Ok, perhaps I should have taken my legitimate criticism to PM, instead of to public admonitions. My bad. I apologize to Blizzard, you and anyone else who may have been aggravated.

Mike is no ass either, he's your brother, your missing brother from when you were missing his love because he was gone travelling and started his life in another state. ...Way of speech.

Bob, I didn't say that Mike is an ass, I said that he comes across as an ass. Big difference. You admonish me about misinterpretations, and then you misinterpret me like that?

***

It is obvious, Bob, that you are the only person here who comes to Blizzard's defense when it comes to rude behaviour. Just take a look at 853guy's above post, which was very well written. There may be more truth in it than you may want to admit to yourself.

 

[amirm]

Ok guys. The points have been made. Please move on.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Blizzard/Mike,

if you are looking for buy-in for your agenda from a group you have continually antagonized time and time again, then that is a bit naïve I think. sure; there are those here who love that you poke the bear so to speak, but my guess is that hard core analog lovers have little interest in getting involved with you as things currently stand. if you really want that to change, then you need to pull in your fangs a bit and be more considerate and respectful in how you interact. recognize the limitations of your own experience if that is possible. qualify some of your 'proclamations'.

I speak for no one but myself on this, and am only guessing how other vinyl folk (known vinyl enthusiasts) feel.

when you approach people with such strong clear agendas and attitudes then who wants to get involved with that. any 'event' would have winners and losers, finger pointing and excuse making, as opposed to learning.

my feelings are that this post's message will go in one ear and out the other and not even register in your mind. but i thought it was worth at least one shot. I'm all for fun audio/music events when there is a spirit of common ground, not open warfare.

sigh.

it did go in one ear and out the other. nothing ventured, nothing gained.....no harm in trying.

next case.

best wishes, Blizzard, in your Myth Busting. you are still welcome to visit if/when you are in the neighborhood.

 

[NorthStar]

Al, true, you only said that he seems to come across as an ass.

And I'm reading a lot, like everyone else, and I read some intelligent comments, and I analyse all the angles of everyone.

Yes too, I feel the vivacity, the interest in Mike to shuffle the foundations of the common audio wisdom by bringing new theories that demand to be explored concretely/
I see everyone's interest aroused as mine too. I give Mike all the benefits of doubt, and I'm a believer of not putting one down no matter what.
Mike I have high confidence in him to see clearly through the end of not definitive end, but "simplement un cheminement de mechanique d'audio a la poursuite du sommet de la montagne musicale", and only him can assess his own. Who are we to judge before the evidence is presented?
Who are we to take seriously this hobby of ours which provides pleasure to all classes?
Who are we to not be open to the good will and humor?

I'm expressing my own vision one day @ a time being conscious that the ultimate conclusion is the learning journey itself. ...It never ends.

It is uncomfortable for many, it's human nature, to not be able to come to a conclusion.

Everyone's has something strong going on for them, they believe quite firmly, and remain open too...very good.

Mike's perception by the majority is not very important; we already know that he's a good guy, and yet we aren't sure of where it will lead us. We are more afraid @ the thought of it, maybe, for few, than standing @ the precipice of higher learning, new learning, adding up to the arsenal of knowledge.
Some revelations have been made already, but not much practicality came up. And I believe that until some experiments are performed our root canals will remain painless with the right effective drug of belief.

I am only an observer, I don't have what it takes to perform the tests, to even invest like Ian did, and other people who don't even bother to post, I presume, but without certitude.
I see a drawing slowly being colored on a canvas, and I just observe, without disturbing, and without being disturbed...

I trust my instinct, my internal peace, my guide, my readings. ...Making sense of everything...good and less good.
The music I'm totally and comfortably numb in it...I let it flow...as it comes. Only the now is in.

I checked other sites, few, regarding audio myths and all. I have greater respect in me today than I have yesterday. And the music appreciation is also greater.

 

[Geardaddy]

Can someone locate the thread where Bruce B. (pro recordist) Gary K. (pro speaker designer), and jazdoc assembled together @ Mike Lavigne's ultra audiophile home for a music listening session in comparing open-real tapes, crystal discs (from Gary), LPs, SACDs, high res audio files (from Bruce)...so from both Sota analog and digital rigs?

The winners were 1. Analog R2R tapes and followed closely by 2. LPs. But some of the high res audio files (Bruce provided few @ various res and 2xDSD recordings) were sounding real good too, and so Gary's crystal discs (@ $1,600 a pop for some of them...if my memory is close enough).

And Mike Lavigne has a top-notch analog and digital rigs. That thread was one of the most interesting ones to me here @ WBF. I trust all these high caliber gentlemen.

@ the end all these audio formats, analog and digital, sound phenomenally excellent, when well mastered and recorded from some of the best in the business and with the best tools and right dose of EQ. ...The master tapes are usually the best sounding, but those you cannot buy @ your local amazon audio store...you need connections from the underworld.
And cost could be well prohibitive for most (even for the well high heeled ones).
But cost wasn't the objective; best sound was.

Yeah, I would like to locate that thread...

___________

? http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...enesis-Speaker&p=219787&viewfull=1#post219787
?? http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-2000-cd-made-from-glass-1/
??? http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-or-will-there-appear-better-masterings-on-it
???? http://tapeproject.com/testimonials/
????? http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...enesis-Speaker&p=219732&viewfull=1#post219732 ===> The evaluation results (page 31, post #309) | start

<<<•>>> That's the thread: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-Disc-US-1600-was-played-with-Genesis-Speaker

That was with another dac (Playback Designs). Mike now has two others in his rig that are apparently superior along with some new grounding technology.... I would be interesting for Mike to incorporate HQplayer/Roon as the Blizzinator as suggested and see if this changes things.

 

[NorthStar]

That was with another dac (Playback Designs). Mike now has two others in his rig that are apparently superior along with some new grounding technology....
I would be interesting for Mike to incorporate HQplayer/Roon as the Blizzinator as suggested and see if this changes things.

Agreed; would love to see the lynx mixed with the cobra, the jaguar, the antelope and the jackal. I have no favorites, they're all agile and fast travelers.

 

[Geardaddy]

Agreed; would love to see the lynx mixed with the cobra, the jaguar, the antelope and the jackal. I have no favorites, they're all agile and fast travelers.

Ha! You live in a beautiful part of the world as does Mike L and I would love to be there for this. Mike could also do a demo of his system with and without his new voodoo grounding toys....

 

[spazmatron]

Hi Blizz,

Or, you know, the criticism could actually be justified, and you could be doing something wrong. Hmm.

The problem with being a self-appointed saviour, is that it’s not often long before one becomes a self-appointed martyr, convinced the world is too blind/disbelieving/stupid to see the “truth” the saviour wishes to impart to all and sundry.

Convinced their mission of “truth telling” to be wasted on those who have not accepted the message (and the messenger), they instead decide their new mission is to lay waste to anyone who opposes this “great truth”, using whatever ideological excuse they can find in an ends-justifies-the-means approach.

Possibly, you’re better than all that.

But right now, you have no skin in the game, my friend. You’re just some guy on the internet, like, giving advice. And when people don’t follow it to the “T”, you then up the stakes in an attempt to convince everyone just how mistaken they all really are. Well, it doesn’t take a genius to do that. Just a dick head (I know, I’m a recovering one myself). Your sig references scaring people away from your products - the great irony… you don’t have one.

Build a product, Blizz. Bring it to market. Back it up with incredible tech and customer support. The world could do with more innovative products. Guys on the internet making themselves into martyrs because no one wants to join in their game, much less so.

As always, I wish you the best in all your endeavours, both professional and personal.

Love and hugs,

Just Some Guy On The Internet

Do you attend the DHA meetings? If so might meet you there one day

Best wishes

Brother spaz

 

[Geardaddy]

Well I have already busted that myth. What matters is the algorithms that are used. With the right algorithms, it sounds much better. Of course you need a DSD compatible DAC to do this. If it's PCM only, it won't sound very good. And yes it all depends on the DAC chip, or if it's chipless DSD or not. If it's chipless DSD, then you must resample the PCM to DSD to even listen to it. If it's an SDM chip, then it's being converted to SDM somewhere in the chain either way, whether it's internally in the chip, or on a PC. By doing the conversion upstream on a PC, it just bypasses the process in the chip.

If 25 audio nerds can line up with your findings in a blinded session then you are onto something!

 

[Diapason]

However, listening to unamplified live music puts things in perspective. Yes, often it can sound very smooth and 'clean', but perhaps equally often it sounds hard and even 'distorted' -- all depending on venue and seating position. Just close your eyes to suppress expectation bias from seeing the musicians playing, just listen, and it becomes evident. I have heard live sounds from unamplified instruments that, if they could be properly reproduced over a stereo system (very difficult to do), would make many an audiophile run out of the room screaming "distortion!".

This has been lost in the rough and tumble, and this thread isn't the place to discuss it anyway, but I think this is a crucial point which is often overlooked. Could you be encouraged to take this idea elsewhere, Al M?

 

[Blizzard]

Hi Blizz,

Or, you know, the criticism could actually be justified, and you could be doing something wrong. Hmm.

The problem with being a self-appointed saviour, is that it’s not often long before one becomes a self-appointed martyr, convinced the world is too blind/disbelieving/stupid to see the “truth” the saviour wishes to impart to all and sundry.

Convinced their mission of “truth telling” to be wasted on those who have not accepted the message (and the messenger), they instead decide their new mission is to lay waste to anyone who opposes this “great truth”, using whatever ideological excuse they can find in an ends-justifies-the-means approach.

Possibly, you’re better than all that.

But right now, you have no skin in the game, my friend. You’re just some guy on the internet, like, giving advice. And when people don’t follow it to the “T”, you then up the stakes in an attempt to convince everyone just how mistaken they all really are. Well, it doesn’t take a genius to do that. Just a dick head (I know, I’m a recovering one myself). Your sig references scaring people away from your products - the great irony… you don’t have one.

Build a product, Blizz. Bring it to market. Back it up with incredible tech and customer support. The world could do with more innovative products. Guys on the internet making themselves into martyrs because no one wants to join in their game, much less so.

As always, I wish you the best in all your endeavours, both professional and personal.

Love and hugs,

Just Some Guy On The Internet

Must be an analog guy. Thanks for the tips

 

[spazmatron]

This has been lost in the rough and tumble, and this thread isn't the place to discuss it anyway, but I think this is a crucial point which is often overlooked. Could you be encouraged to take this idea elsewhere, Al M?

+1

 

[Blizzard]

Your ad for "golden ear vinyl lovers "come be proven foolish on videotape to be posted on you tube.
In regard to your second question there a countless examples where new technology is not optimum for certain applications. For example I hate e vite. I still send handwritten thank you noted

Simple suggestion.

1: close your eyes
2: put your fingers in your ears
3: scream vinyl will never be beat, vinyl will never be beat. Over and over again. Maybe if you do it long enough, your wish will come true

 

[TBone]

This has been lost in the rough and tumble, and this thread isn't the place to discuss it anyway, but I think this is a crucial point which is often overlooked. Could you be encouraged to take this idea elsewhere, Al M?

Yes, although if Al does take it elsewhere, some may considered that the "Unofficial" version by comparison ...

 

[Blizzard]

That was with another dac (Playback Designs). Mike now has two others in his rig that are apparently superior along with some new grounding technology.... I would be interesting for Mike to incorporate HQplayer/Roon as the Blizzinator as suggested and see if this changes things.

I've been trying for months to help Mike get better sound. This has been the problem between us since day 1. He thinks he already has the holy, grail, so he takes it as an insult when simple suggestions are made that can easily get him much better sound.

 

[Gregadd]

Simple suggestion.

1: close your eyes
2: put your fingers in your ears
3: scream vinyl will never be beat, vinyl will never be beat. Over and over again. Maybe if you do it long enough, your wish will come true

I got my two and a half year old twin great grand niece and nephew working on it. They usually get their way.


.

 

[Blizzard]

I got my two and a half year old twin great grand niece and nephew working on it. They usually get their way.


.

Works for them, so should for you as well