The official audio myth busting thread
- Thread starter Blizzard
- Start date
Exactly it would probably spoil your year, not only your day, if you found out that not only a $4200 could match your 200K plus rig, but likely beat. And it would be by your own admission, on video, which would make it worse. You would be the laughing stock of the audio industry
I am very new here but I'm very impressed. How do you know so much about audio, did you go to audio school?
I know but the only reason I'm asking is due to the constant stream of retaliation against these claims coming from that direction. Now we finally have a chance to debunk things, it seems like a golden opportunity for both parties.
Well if we can't get anyone from that camp to join the panel, it just may be a fruitless effort. As we already know what the end results will likely be anyways.
Making friends again Mike you need to promise them the humble pie will be the tastiest pie they ever had..
I am confused regarding Mike L, his system shows him every thing on a recording but he still gets benefits from the avalanche of upgrades he puts in? If you get everything how can a ground box bring more transparency etc? Guess his system gives 110% of the recordings now
I think there is little argument that what your suggesting will be transparent Mike, how that relates to the digital music we listen to now would be a question. I guess the ultimate test will be once the digital and vinyl are equal or even the digital music surpass the vinyl will people still go out and buy vinyl. My guess is they will.
I have a friend with a well set up linn tt and naim gear, my system has dumped all over his for a very long time, even in my resolution audio opus 21 days and when the total cost of my rig was the same or less than his. Oh and even when we had the same speakers! Hardly proof that digital is better than vinyl though, more proof than linn and naim are....... Not up to the job!
you need to promise them the humble pie will be the tastiest pie they ever had..I am confused regarding Mike L, his system shows him every thing on a recording but he still gets benefits from the avalanche of upgrades he puts in? If you get everything how can a ground box bring more transparency etc? Guess his system gives 110% of the recordings now
I think there is little argument that what your suggesting will be transparent Mike, how that relates to the digital music we listen to now would be a question. I guess the ultimate test will be once the digital and vinyl are equal or even the digital music surpass the vinyl will people still go out and buy vinyl. My guess is they will.
I have a friend with a well set up linn tt and naim gear, my system has dumped all over his for a very long time, even in my resolution audio opus 21 days and when the total cost of my rig was the same or less than his. Oh and even when we had the same speakers! Hardly proof that digital is better than vinyl though, more proof than linn and naim are....... Not up to the job!
Making friends again Mike
I am confused regarding Mike L, his system shows him every thing on a recording but he still gets benefits from the avalanche of upgrades he puts in? If you get everything how can a ground box bring more transparency etc? Guess his system gives 110% of the recordings now
I think there is little argument that what your suggesting will be transparent Mike, how that relates to the digital music we listen to now would be a question. I guess the ultimate test will be once the digital and vinyl are equal or even the digital music surpass the vinyl will people still go out and buy vinyl. My guess is they will.
I have a friend with a well set up linn tt and naim gear, my system has dumped all over his for a very long time, even in my resolution audio opus 21 days and when the total cost of my rig was the same or less than his. Oh and even when we had the same speakers! Hardly proof that digital is better than vinyl though, more proof than linn and naim are....... Not up to the job!
Hey all I'm saying is I think this modest $4200 DAC can match any turntable/phono stage combo at any price. You would think these guys who are so dead confident in their vinyl rigs being superior, would laugh at this and jump on the opportunity to debunk my claims in a heartbeat. But instead these guys are trembling in their boots. What gives? All talk and no action.
You don't understand mike! These things of yours will capture 100% of the recording but what about the other 10% . Back to audio school for you my friend.
I'm even making the claim that the other 10% will be captured. As long as that 10% is in the playback chain before the ADC. Whatever tweaks are done anywhere before the ADC, will be captured with accuracy beyond the level that a human ear can detect any difference. That's what I think. The only thing that will have to be ensured is that the levels of the outputs are perfectly matched to each other. this will require measurement gear to ensure this. Also a pre will need to be used between the DAC and amp to ensure the same impedence matches between pre and amp. Things like that have the potential to alter tonality. So for the vinyl rig we would have a turntable and phono stage into a preamp. And for the digital we would have a Windows based server, 2 copper to fiber Ethernet converters, a length of fiber optic cable, the Merging Hapi or horus with DA8P DAC board installed connected to the server via the fiber, and then connected to the same preamp.
For the recording process. the Hapi or Horus with premium ADC board, and Pyramix workstation, will capture the recording direct from the phono stage of the turn table. And of course the record will need to be spotless. Preferably brand new out of a freshly opened sleeve. Something by Yarlung records would be perfect. We don't want something that was used to play frisbee on this day. We can wait till the digital clone wins the contest before we play frisbee.
He is not the first to do that. We respect a lot of people who say that. So I think you should stop misinterpreting that we don't like him because he is challenging vinyl and such practices. You and amir challenge them as well, but I don't see people treating you like they treat blizzard, so I would suggest please don't ignore the problem by using a red herring like what he is suggesting from the front page of computer audiophile
I hope I have not insulted Mike.
I think it is a legitimate question. It has been done before. My point is a lot of fighters challenge Floyd Mayweather. There is nothing to lose.They can make money ,gain notoriety and experience. One lucky punch and they are the champ. You have to earn the right to fight the champ.
Just a few posts back he vehemently denied issuing a challenge.Amir stepped in and issued one on his behalf. By his own definition there is no challenge pending. IIRC he has an open invitation to visit Mike L. and bring his device. Quite gracious if you ask me.
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So this is a myth busting thread. Check. Opinions have been proven from prior posts to be not up to the challenge. Check.
I have the distinct feeling that whatever challenge comes up, reasons why it can't be performed will also come up.
So the regions started out as regions, now the rules have changed and Mike must be there......so apparently it isn't a regional thing. Opinions are not a challenge as has been mentioned twice now, once in big, bold letters for all to see.
I'm lost here between all of this. What exactly is the audio myth to be challenged again? What are the specific rules....or do we need to go back and forth with the useless "trembling in the boots" comments and never get anywhere?
Tom
I have the distinct feeling that whatever challenge comes up, reasons why it can't be performed will also come up.
So the regions started out as regions, now the rules have changed and Mike must be there......so apparently it isn't a regional thing. Opinions are not a challenge as has been mentioned twice now, once in big, bold letters for all to see.
I'm lost here between all of this. What exactly is the audio myth to be challenged again? What are the specific rules....or do we need to go back and forth with the useless "trembling in the boots" comments and never get anywhere?
Agreed.
Tom
I appreciate the point by point analysis of my post, Amir. I will try to answer your questions individually as best I can:
1. Listening. I already suspect that quad DSD is superior to vinyl when it comes to making a faithful copy of the original master tape. You and Blizzard have already biased me to suspect this that this is true, but I can not be sure until I hear it. Then, I may not care in the sense that it will not change my approach. It would be good for the industry though, because digital has historically been rather poor sounding. And does not necessarily mean, though, that quad DSD is preferred to vinyl. That is a different question and has been much discussed.
2. Probably very little. It will mean that I can listen to more digital in other people's systems without becoming fatigued or bored and it will open up more music availability.
3. Multichannel is not currently very popular. For instance, none of my Boston area audio buddies listen to multichannel. Sure, it exists, and I heard a very convincing demonstration at RMAF 2010 of a four channel isomic recording that I think was made by Cardas, but I can remember. Four discreet channels and very natural sounding, but it was in a ball room unlike any private listening room that I have ever heard, so it was not quite like home audio. And the software was extremely limited. When people describe multichannel as the future of audio, I assume they mean something like the vast majority of audiophiles, or people in general, will be listening in this way. I don't think that is yet the case, nor do I see multichannel Bose Wave radios or MP3 players with earbuds. That is pretty funny, actually. I guess the futurists are talking about something else, but regardless, I don't think anyone would describe the world of audio as being multichannel. That is why I wrote that it is around the corner, because I give these futurists the benefit of the doubt, just as I wrote that recordings standards and quad DSD will be replaced by something else.
I appreciate your tone and demeanor, Mike. ...EDIT... Your friends from Vancouver are fortunate to know you and must have enjoyed your hospitality and convivial approach to sharing music and your system.
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thanks Steve. that was a very fun evening with some kindred spirits.....and had nothing to do with any conflicted perspective. just enjoying the people, the vibe, the music and high end audio.
I am confused regarding Mike L, his system shows him every thing on a recording but he still gets benefits from the avalanche of upgrades he puts in? If you get everything how can a ground box bring more transparency etc? Guess his system gives 110% of the recordings now
my comment had to do with my system's ability to cover the whole frequency spectrum with lots of head room and space for note development; not that mine or any system is at an ultimate music reproduction end point.
a high tide raises all boats (formats). this last year I've been tuning my 'whole system' in various ways. my path is the pursuit of musical truth. every advance in system performance increases the uniqueness of every recording (distortion is a 'sameness' in the way of the music to my way of thinking), and exposes differences where they exist. who can predict where the next dollop of musical truth might be found?
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