The official audio myth busting thread

[amirm]

How many guys here when confronted with music that's clearly better than what they have would just ignore it and go home to their systems.

I can't tell you how shocking it is to read that here. I mean if a new cable sounds better than the one you have and costs $300, who would settle to go and listen to it at someone else's home???

For the same $300, you can by a DSD DAC. What I am reading is that if hypothetically I showed that DSD DAC takes one closer to the original music than Vinyl, that is not enough to buy said DAC and start consuming DSD. I don't know what we are doing here anymore if that is the spirit.

 

[amirm]

On the contrary, I think some people will want to adopt DSD, and if it is as good as people are saying, that will be wonderful for the industry.

I am not asking you to represent the industry or other people. I am asking you to represent yourself.

I am going to hear my first quad DSD recordings in a few weeks and look forward to the experience. And after a while, there will probably be another digital format after DSD.

The second sentence is the answer to the first question you asked . It is called FUD in computer industry. You tell people there will be something better so that they don't adopt what is here and now. A little story:

Guy goes to the butcher and asks how much the steaks are. Butcher says $30/pound. Guy says "but the butcher across the street has them for $20/pound." Butcher asks, "then why don't you buy it from him?" Guy says, "but he doesn't have any!"

What doesn't exist doesn't matter. What matters is if something comes closer to capturing the live performance, and it is here, you are saying you won't adopt it personally. That I find very odd.

 

[Blizzard]

I find it amazing how the analog guys have so little confidence in their format of choice. All I'm seeing here is cop outs, and lame excuses. It's a very simple challenge, and I've already explained how the procedure would go. It will be a $4200 DAC on the digital end, and bring along a $250000 turntable if you want. It should be a no brainer. How could it be possible that a turntable of the finest caliber couldn't beat a $4200 pro sound DAC? Seems like a golden opportunity to finally shut the digital guys up once and for all.

 

[spazmatron]

I can't tell you how shocking it is to read that here. I mean if a new cable sounds better than the one you have and costs $300, who would settle to go and listen to it at someone else's home???

For the same $300, you can by a DSD DAC. What I am reading is that if hypothetically I showed that DSD DAC takes one closer to the original music than Vinyl, that is not enough to buy said DAC and start consuming DSD. I don't know what we are doing here anymore if that is the spirit.

Amir read it again! Lol it was a question with the obvious answer being on one.

I will keep it simple by referring to my self only...

If you came to my house or I went to your house and showed me a better way to enjoy music, one that bought me closer to the music in a real and undeniable way I would love it and thank you even if this meant a cheaper dac or cable or what ever. The only reason I would not change my gear would be if I could not afford it.

Even if your devices were in black unmarked boxes with no branding, even if no one else agreed with us I would be changing my kit.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[Gregadd]

Proving that that fhis technology is equal is a lateral move. A new medium would have to be significantly better in order to justify the investment in software and hardware. History suggests this too will be obsolete.

 

[amirm]

Amir read it again! Lol it was a question with the obvious answer being on one.

I will keep it simple by referring to my self only...

If you came to my house or I went to your house and showed me a better way to enjoy music, one that bought me closer to the music in a real and undeniable way I would love it and thank you even if this meant a cheaper dac or cable or what ever. The only reason I would not change my gear would be if I could not afford it.

Even if your devices were in black unmarked boxes with no branding, even if no one else agreed with us I would be changing my kit.

Hope that clears things up.

Oh I am sorry Spaz. I am the one that needs to clear things up as I was fully agreeing with you. I should have been more clear that I was using it to re-enforce the point you were making .

 

[PeterA]

Sigh. So you repeat the comment again in this last line? And say you are still going to create work for us as management in that regard by continuing to complain behind the scenes??? You can't be like any other member coming here to discuss some topics related to audio hardware and software and have it be that? You must add to our workload as management?

In over four years of membership, I've only reported two posts to the management team. That should not have added much to your workload. In fact, you are the only moderator who has suggested I not report posts. I am going to try to get back on topic and please forgive me if I cut short this back and forth which has little to do with the topic of this thread.

 

[Blizzard]

Proving that that fhis technology is equal is a lateral move. A new medium would have to be significantly better in order to justify the investment in software and hardware. History suggests this too will be obsolete.

Once again you refuse to understand what's been clearly explained in detail already a few times. Proving that it can replicate the sound of vinyl indistinguishable from the vinyl played back on a fine turntable, will also prove it can do the same with mic feeds and R2R master tape. Which will mean, it will be superior to vinyl, if making copies of R2R or mic feeds.

 

[PeterA]

Hi Peter,

How did the listening session go comparing quad DSD on the Merging NADAC to vinyl on the Kronos with Black beauty tone arm, and Pass XS Phono preamp? I thought you were attending an event comparing the 2 yesterday?

You are mistaken. I was otherwise engaged with my family and was unaware of any such event.

 

[amirm]

In over four years of membership, I've only reported two posts to the management team.

I asked you to not keep complaining about the forum in private and public. You turn that into reporting posts???

We have heard you. You are unhappy. Move on now.

 

[RBFC]

Once again you refuse to understand what's been clearly explained in detail already a few times. Proving that it can replicate the sound of vinyl indistinguishable from the vinyl played back on a fine turntable, will also prove it can do the same with mic feeds and R2R master tape. Which will mean, it will be superior to vinyl, if making copies of R2R or mic feeds.

If the vinyl, even on the highest quality rig, produces distortions and has limited dynamic range, could not the presence of those "anomalies" make it difficult to imply that copies of mic feeds (with lower distortion and higher dynamic range) may not fare as well compared to the original signal? I hope that my question is clear....

Lee

 

[Gregadd]

Once again you equate agreement with understanding.
You clearly have already come to the conclusion you desire. Why don't you just go with it?
I might add as an aside a host of issues were raised about your supposed challenge.

Do you intend to respond? Should we treat your silence as a concession?

 

[Blizzard]

You are mistaken. I was otherwise engaged with my family and was unaware of any such event.

Oh I was assuming you were going to be attending as you had mentioned this event a few times already. I was helping set things up via email as well. It's too bad you didn't make it, as I have already heard feedback of the results comparing the Janaki String Trio by Yarlung records on vinyl vs the quad DSD on the NADAC. Someone will be sharing impressions on this shortly I hear.

 

[Blizzard]

If the vinyl, even on the highest quality rig, produces distortions and has limited dynamic range, could not the presence of those "anomalies" make it difficult to imply that copies of mic feeds (with lower distortion and higher dynamic range) may not fare as well compared to the original signal? I hope that my question is clear....

Lee

Well we do have measurement tools to verify things like this. But you must be a believer in measurements to acknowledge the value. This is why I think it's important to make the vinyl copy to prove this, rather than mic feed copies. Because we will simply have people saying the mic feeds are not as "real" otherwise.

Everything I'm saying is common knowledge to the studio pros who do this on a daily basis. I'm not uncovering any new ground.I'm just trying to share this info with the crowd around here.

 

[zztop7]

BruceB digital setup

Too everyone who is posting here: Thank You.
I think this is great. Eventually some new information will come out of this. Most likely other forums & industry are following or will follow any results.
The common USB stick costing a few dollars has a greater memory than the combined space computers on the first moon landing mission.
This is what needs to happen to the music industry to make great audio available to caring people, therefore rejuvenating the industry.

I have seen BruceB run a BruceB digital setup through other people's systems; what a monster jump in quality. If it had been a blind-test, I would have thought I was hearing a totally different system.

I do believe a rejuvenated audio industry would be an increase across all formats: vinyl, digital, IIRC Amir's FUD, etc. People like to play & spend on toys.

zz.

 

[Blizzard]

Once again you equate agreement with understanding.
You clearly have already come to the conclusion you desire. Why don't you just go with it?
I might add as an aside a host of issues were raised about your supposed challenge.

Do you intend to respond? Should we treat your silence as a concession?

Are you just on here to fill the pages with meaningless text? Just tell us whether or not your coming for the challenge. If you would rather act like a kid kicking and screaming with your fingers in your ears, this thread isn't for you. This thread is for people who have a genuine interest of knowing the results.

 

[Blizzard]

Too everyone who is posting here: Thank You.
I think this is great. Eventually some new information will come out of this. Most likely other forums & industry are following or will follow any results.
The common USB stick costing a few dollars has a greater memory than the combined space computers on the first moon landing mission.
This is what needs to happen to the music industry to make great audio available to caring people, therefore rejuvenating the industry.

I have seen BruceB run a BruceB digital setup through other people's systems; what a monster jump in quality. If it had been a blind-test, I would have thought I was hearing a totally different system.

I do believe a rejuvenated audio industry would be an increase across all formats: vinyl, digital, IIRC Amir's FUD, etc. People like to play & spend on toys.

zz.

Great idea! We need to drop all of the stale innovation suppressing biases in this industry. All it is doing is keeping new opened minded folks from being interested.

 

[DaveC]

Well, my predictions are people WILL NOT be able to tell the difference between analog and a digital recording of the analog device, whatever it is, and it won't even take quad DSD to achieve it. In the short term...

BUT, the issue is more likely with longer term listening and fatigue issues. My theory is that digital results in more agitation of the nervous system and the biggest difference is in the way your body, nervous system and mind react to the sensory input over time.

Therefore, we may need to measure brain activity of the listener between analog and digital as well. Any brain research scientists here?

 

[Blizzard]

Well, my predictions are people WILL NOT be able to tell the difference between analog and a digital recording of the analog device, whatever it is, and it won't even take quad DSD to achieve it. In the short term...

BUT, the issue is more likely with longer term listening and fatigue issues. My theory is that digital results in more agitation of the nervous system and the biggest difference is in the way your body, nervous system and mind react to the sensory input over time.

Therefore, we may need to measure brain activity of the listener between analog and digital as well. Any brain research scientists here?

I highly doubt it. Folks who have both systems listen for extended hours without any listening fatigue whatsoever.

 

[spazmatron]

Well, my predictions are people WILL NOT be able to tell the difference between analog and a digital recording of the analog device, whatever it is, and it won't even take quad DSD to achieve it. In the short term...

BUT, the issue is more likely with longer term listening and fatigue issues. My theory is that digital results in more agitation of the nervous system and the biggest difference is in the way your body, nervous system and mind react to the sensory input over time.

Therefore, we may need to measure brain activity of the listener between analog and digital as well. Any brain research scientists here?

I have been banging on about that to no avail lol.

We need a audiophile neurologist