I just went from Gryphon Diablo 300 to Vitus SIA-025 Mk2, the Vitus is in a different league!
The Rise of the Uber-High End Integrated Amp
- Thread starter KeithR
- Start date
Can we get more of a comparison vs just a proclamation? That would be interesting for many folks I’m sure.
Sure, In my system the Diablo 300 sounded mechanical, harsh and fatiguing when i raised the volume.
On the other hand the SIA-025 is very smooth, liquid and much more laid back.
One other very important and surprising aspect is that the SIA-025 delivers more current than the Diablo 300 and therefore i have a deeper and more solid bass with the Vitus.
The Diablo 300 never draws you into the music as opposed to the SIA-025.
I have tried to like the Diablo 300 for a year but just couldn't live with it anymore.
Anyway it will mostly depend on your speakers.
Home demo is highly recommended.
It's a fad. Time was, integrated amps represented the evolution of the receiver due to consumers no longer wanting FM, and they were the "stuff" of mid-fi to introductory high-end. Japanese and British producers made integrateds to suit their customer's smaller listening rooms. From time to time there were high-end shockers-such as Krell coming out with an integrated 20 years ago in their heyday. Anyone remember the "What the Krell?" cover on S'Phile?
And now here we are with a marketing fad that reminds me of the high end bicycle industry. The manufacturer(s) is (are) the tail that wags the dog. They are more than happy to introduce products that make their manufacturing both easier, more efficient, and more profitable. The analogy to high end bicycles refers to reduced selection of sizes vis a vis compact geometry. The consumer is force to adapt the bike to their body rather than have on offer a bike that easily fits them and the manufactures market the sub-optimum product as cool and what the heavily paid pros ride. The same goes with "ahead-set" style steering tube bearing assemblies and forty other bike evolutions I could bore you with but the point is this-the manufacturers are copy cats and when they see a more profitable product paradigm succeed they all jump in the pool.
Manufacturers face inordinate parts costs for the type of bling casework that high end consumers crave and insist upon. They know their customers buy based upon both sound and impressing their guests and friends. Look at the casework on most of the integrateds posted with pics in this thread. The manufactures are licking their lips at the prospect of charging as much as they charge for their separates or close to it with one box, not to mention the savings in parts costs inside each box.
Class D may be an exception but conventional amps rely on robust power supplies/input transformers and combining preamp circuits in the same box as the transformer is an insurmountable compromise. I am not a measurements nerd, but I have yet to see an integrated amp with conventional power supply that did not demonstrate objectionably high 60/50 hz bleed in the output signal on the test bench.
I will stop my rant. But I will not surrender my opinion as to manufacturers' practices. They have to fight to survive and stay profitable but do they have their customers' bests interests paramount in their priorities? You have to answer that for yourself.
And now here we are with a marketing fad that reminds me of the high end bicycle industry. The manufacturer(s) is (are) the tail that wags the dog. They are more than happy to introduce products that make their manufacturing both easier, more efficient, and more profitable. The analogy to high end bicycles refers to reduced selection of sizes vis a vis compact geometry. The consumer is force to adapt the bike to their body rather than have on offer a bike that easily fits them and the manufactures market the sub-optimum product as cool and what the heavily paid pros ride. The same goes with "ahead-set" style steering tube bearing assemblies and forty other bike evolutions I could bore you with but the point is this-the manufacturers are copy cats and when they see a more profitable product paradigm succeed they all jump in the pool.
Manufacturers face inordinate parts costs for the type of bling casework that high end consumers crave and insist upon. They know their customers buy based upon both sound and impressing their guests and friends. Look at the casework on most of the integrateds posted with pics in this thread. The manufactures are licking their lips at the prospect of charging as much as they charge for their separates or close to it with one box, not to mention the savings in parts costs inside each box.
Class D may be an exception but conventional amps rely on robust power supplies/input transformers and combining preamp circuits in the same box as the transformer is an insurmountable compromise. I am not a measurements nerd, but I have yet to see an integrated amp with conventional power supply that did not demonstrate objectionably high 60/50 hz bleed in the output signal on the test bench.
I will stop my rant. But I will not surrender my opinion as to manufacturers' practices. They have to fight to survive and stay profitable but do they have their customers' bests interests paramount in their priorities? You have to answer that for yourself.
Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
I humbly think-with my opinion only being just that-my opinion-that simply posting porn shots of bling equipment with little analysis of what the product brings to the table makes this forum a bit vapid. So once in a while I might appear to be stirring the pot but that is not my incentive. Instead I only aim to break up a bit of fog. I would also humbly submit that more than a few highly respected manufacturers would agree that my post contains a kernel of truth. Do integrated amps have a place even in the line-ups of the most innovative and artisan manufacturers? They do. But at the price points they have now reached? That is where I disagree.
I can not help but think of the irony present with the Ayre integrated mentioned by the OP. I sorely miss Charley Hansen and while I can not pretend to be within the same universe of his intellect, technical expertise, and knowledge base, I can try to remember to think for myself and sometimes express my view.
I can not help but think of the irony present with the Ayre integrated mentioned by the OP. I sorely miss Charley Hansen and while I can not pretend to be within the same universe of his intellect, technical expertise, and knowledge base, I can try to remember to think for myself and sometimes express my view.
This is the Mother of All Integrated Amplifiers:
The Vitus MP-I201 Integrated Amplifier
The Vitus MP-I201 Integrated Amplifier
The VAC Statement 450 iQ is even larger, heavier and more expensive!
I should think that the more expensive Aavik integrateds would be in the "uber" class?
A discerning audio pen pal of mine recently got the I-280 which I believe retails for about $13k, and he is in love.
A discerning audio pen pal of mine recently got the I-280 which I believe retails for about $13k, and he is in love.
For sure! The I-280, which is the middle of the line, retails for $12,000.00, then there's the I-580 at retail of $25,200. Speaking of "Uber" Integrateds Aavik is now delivering the I-880 which is a full Class-A integrated utilizing innovative technology to keep power draw/heat way down. This is an all-out assault on SOTA.
Tom- XtremeFidelity
Disclosure- Aavik dealer
Attachments
Would love to try the I-880 in my system but very difficult to find a dealer who will have it on demo.
Interesting thoughts. Of course some top integrateds do have separate power supplies. The top integrateds from Destination Audio and Trafomatic Audio have outboard power supplies. In the case of the Destination pieces, the power supply has the same footprint as the head unit and weighs substantially more.
The totl integrated from Grandinote doesn't have outboard power rather they're mono integrateds...again two chassis. ASR has made a career out of integrated units with up to 2 outboard power supplies and a separate battery bank. Friedrich Schäfer at ASR believes he cannot do better than having all amplification integrated into a single box.
All to say, there are some good arguments out there for top performance from an integrated design. However, the degree to which they are a space saving alternative is certainly situational.
49k, thanks, she is a labor of love for Destination, as is all their work.
I am in Switzerland...where could I hear this amp? I love the GM70 tube and already have a very nice GM70 based integrated (only 1 box...but a big box) but would be curious what more can be had from the tube.
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