The State of High End Audio
- Thread starter FrantzM
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Not everything can be heard. Sometimes it is just that easy. Like nulling cables, and having nothing left except a wee bit of thermal noise. There isn't anything there to sound different. No end to the imagining however.
Well, in all fairness, that article you linked to contained no physics at all, high school level or otherwise. It stated that they had measured differences in cables, but provided no measurements, and didn't even tell you what cables were compared. It did, however, announce that soon they would be able to sell you some software that would let you see these differences for yourself, in your own system. It's not that I don't appreciate the offer, but I'd rather see the study. And for follow-up, rather than some software for sale, I'd like to see the results repeated. Still no physics, but at least a bit of decent engineering.
Tim
This is, of course, correct. Whether or not it is relevant is a different question.
Tim
Even if you can measure it, that doesn't mean the measurement tells you anything you can use. That can be described as "can't measure" just as easily, as saying the measurement doesn't provide anything quantifiable for the big subjective difference.
If it was easy, and a simple measurement was all it took, you think there would be any need for anything besides what you can buy at Radio-shack?
If it was easy, and a simple measurement was all it took, you think there would be any need for anything besides what you can buy at Radio-shack?
As far as I am aware no one has been able to consistently 'pick' a cable in a properly conducted unsighted test, as long as the two cables being compared have similar L,C,R measurements.
I have often heard it said that it is cable sales which keep HiFi shop open, and the margins on cables are healthy, and even if they
dont improve sound quality they do at least conduct electricity,so much more useful than boxes of dirt ,bits of wood cable lifters etc etc.
Keith.
I have often heard it said that it is cable sales which keep HiFi shop open, and the margins on cables are healthy, and even if they
dont improve sound quality they do at least conduct electricity,so much more useful than boxes of dirt ,bits of wood cable lifters etc etc.
Keith.
Low enough that the LCR don't have an audible effect at the impedance the cables are working into. So as low as is practical. If you measure a 3 ft run in CLIO you see a bit of roll off up high and some phase shift none of which are audible. I have posted cable measurements before for Frequency Response and Phase. Nothing I am going to worry about.
Rob
Quite true. It is merely secondary or indirect evidence that hints at what "may"be going on....and yes, its completely self-serving. Still, its a tantalizing hint at what some of us fools may be "hearing." I too would like to see it duplicated. I wonder what they charge for their software.
Low enough that the LCR don't have an audible effect at the impedance the cables are working into. So as low as is practical. If you measure a 3 ft run in CLIO you see a bit of roll off up high and some phase shift none of which are audible. I have posted cable measurements before for Frequency Response and Phase. Nothing I am going to worry about.
Rob
In other words, it depends.
Hello Jack
Have you ever seen a cable measurement ran between the input and output of a measurement system?? Here is a 2 meter cable typical of what everyone on this forum would call a piece of crap and would not be caught dead using in your system. That is enough for me not to sweat the details as I just don't see them as relevant. That is where I am coming from on this. Yeah you could vary the input and output loads over the range of typical audio components to see what the worst case is but I am certainly not going to do it. Green is Phase
Rob
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The same has been said about amps, dacs, etc. I guess its purely a matter of what's on the menu....
To add to what Rob posted, yes it depends, but rarely except unusual circumstances. Have an old or odd tube pre with 1 kohm output impedance, feeding some monoblock SS amp with 10 kohm input impedance with a long cable run between them. Sure you can get reduced dynamics, and alterations to the frequency response that can be heard. The fix is getting an unusually low capacitance cable, or two components that work well together or re-arrange things. The fix isn't one that requires some expensive exotic cables costing hundreds and hundreds of dollars. The issue isn't some mystery, it is just basic L, C, and R effects which are well understood. No need to audition cables and find what works. Just use the basic parameters of your setup and make corrections.
Somehow money always comes into the picture. How predictable. Point is, it does depend. That's it.
The point actually is it almost never depends. Plus figuring out exceptions when it does is quite straightforward.
I agree you have to deliberately alter the electrical parameters enough so there will be an audible difference in a comparison, resistors in large metal boxes same thing.
Keith.
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