I find the Tone Poet series from Blue Note on thick vinyl very vibrant sounding, and the age of the tapes from the 1950s and 1960s does not show. It all sounds very fresh. To me it's a great success.
Thick Vinyl Records
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I find the Tone Poet series from Blue Note on thick vinyl very vibrant sounding, and the age of the tapes from the 1950s and 1960s does not show. It all sounds very fresh. To me it's a great success.
For me, it’s a question of relative quality. When I have done comparisons, I have preferred the original. Thick reissues if heard in isolation can sound pretty good, especially if you can’t get an original or an early pressing on thinner vinyl.
Some thick vinyl does not sound “dead“ to me. I think it is because in the remastering process, frequencies are enhanced, but that is just a guess. What I do notice is that the thicker vinyl even if it sounds vivid, lacks some nuance and ambience. These are the more subtle cues that remind me of live acoustic music. I also make a distinction between a presentation that is full of energy and alive versus one that is simply vivid and bold. Vivid may or may not sound realistic, but real music always has energy and is full of information. A good presentation of a good recording should present energy, and lots of information, not just enhancement and spotlighting that draws attention. The latter is what I hear on too many thick vinyl re-issues.
one other opinion.....of many.....everyone is entitled to their own opinion......maybe generalizations are not the best approach.
>>>>>The results were so far superior in his opinion to what the older metal parts produced that he decided to green light an ambitious RCA Living Stereo reissue program using original 3 and 2 track tapes, all cut by the young Mr. Smith and plated and pressed at QRP. Kassem's reissued feature "Tip-On" jackets like the originals and meticulous attention was paid to the artwork. If you look at the back jacket of this release and compare the photo of Fritz Reiner there to Classic's you'll see a dramatic difference. The Analogue Productions version's photo is dramatically better. In fact it's better than the original as well as is the entire physical packaging.
As for the sound, well I get into arguments all to often with people who insist originals are always better. If after comparing this reissue to the original they still think so, they are hopelessly prejudiced. This reissue easily beats the original I have in every category.p> Of course the original can't begin to approach the 200g QRP pressing quality, especially in terms of velvet-black backgrounds and perfect surfaces. The reissue is far more dynamic, the low frequency extension complete, and most importantly the instrumental textures and tonalities are rich, full and spectacularly transparent. All of the delicacy, three-dimensionality and transparency promised but only partly delivered by the original is fully communicated on this Analogue Productions reissue.<<<<<<
One can declare thicker vinyl reissues a success stand alone when that's all you know. A truer gauge is how they sound in comparison to thinner originals. For example, I compared an original shaded dog RCA LSC 2436, Resphigi's 'Pines of Rome' with Reiner/Chicago, to a Classic Records thicker reissue. The reissue was fine but the differences were obvious.
Yes, I was describing a recording like the one you reference. Velvety black backgrounds are just what I mean when I describe recordings that lack ambience and nuance but are vivid with enhanced sounds that pop. They can certainly be enjoyable and exciting.
I agree that each of us is entitled to his own impressions and judgment of what he hears. And even if in general terms, one has similar impressions of reissues on thick vinyl, a revealing system will allow differences between recordings to come through and be appreciated.
Yes, one can appreciate relative differences between the two. In isolation, one can certainly enjoy the one to which he has access. Some may prefer one over the other, and vice versa.
Fair point. Yet let me rephrase: "unusually vibrant sounding" -- unusual in a good way.
The Scheherazade of AP is quite poor compared to both the original and to Classic. The Classic is the best but the Reiner originals were seldom good quality. Not all originals are good. And even the decent ones you had to get the 1s 1s. And the classic Scheherazade is exceptionally good.
i recall your reaction back in 2015 when you heard my disc #2 of the 45 in my room.
my 4 disc single sided 45rpm Reiner even smokes the AP Shahrazad tape.
generalizing about RCA originals compared to the Classic 4 disc 45's is just not correct. might some be better in some small ways? probably. but mostly those 45's rule.
but outside the RCA's i think most originals are better than the 45's.
I did not generalise. I mentioned specifically Reiner and Scheherazade. One can’t use this example to make a comment on originals, which are not all originals but a subset when people say they are better than reissues
Yeah the AP is poor. Their jazz reissues are good but their classical are not. I had a similar reaction comparing AP to the original, the AP is quite compressed, no breath. The original in this case lacks bottom end. I love Reiner but he did not get great quality records in his days.
I do not have all of those 45s. I do not have your collection, Mike. I’m always careful to say that I’m talking about the records that I own and that I have heard. You are bringing up 45s. I did not discuss comparing different speeds. In other words, it is my experience and I appreciate that you have a different opinion. Enjoy your collection. I am trying to replace my re-issues with originals when I can find them.
when Fremer uses that 'velvety black backgrounds' term i think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt he does not mean dull or lacking ambience or air. but not saying that as any truth, or proof, only that he is credible to understand the difference. and owns most of the originals to be informed.
there is a noisy pressing, and a quiet pressing, and one with ambience and air. they are three distinct different things. would agree that reissues are mostly quiet, and some are lacking ambience and air. it's variable. would also agree that originals are more typically livelier on the top compared to reissues. but sometimes that bleeds over into more edge and tipped up highs too with originals or early pressings. hard to predict.
i do have originals that do have more noise and also have that ambience and air and do prefer them to quiet reissues for sure.
when i did my 3000 classical pressing clean and sample project, with 50% original pressings, last summer, it was easy to hear all three situations. these were mostly not the spendy originals, but none the less plenty of quiet ones with ambience and air, and some noisy one's too. preferred the one's with Fremer's velvety black backgrounds perspective.
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What about the effect of 70 years of vinyl hardening? Could that contribute to the vivid, airy character we often hear from old records?
I can’t prove it, but older records do feel harder — almost stone-like — compared to the softer, more pliable texture of new pressings. It’s natural for plastics to harden over time, and maybe that physical change plays a role in what we hear.
I don’t necessarily prefer reissues over originals, but as a skeptical person, I often wonder: did these old records sound the same when they were new? In my opinion, it’s impossible to say definitively which is truer without comparing both versions directly to the master tape.
I can’t prove it, but older records do feel harder — almost stone-like — compared to the softer, more pliable texture of new pressings. It’s natural for plastics to harden over time, and maybe that physical change plays a role in what we hear.
I don’t necessarily prefer reissues over originals, but as a skeptical person, I often wonder: did these old records sound the same when they were new? In my opinion, it’s impossible to say definitively which is truer without comparing both versions directly to the master tape.
my mid or early 50's mono pressings, mostly jazz but a few classical too, do not seem at all brittle sounding. i don't hear evidence of any process that might be going on that i have noticed. i've owned some of them for 20+ years.
maybe @Neil.Antin can comment about the science behind that?
Another observation about Sterling Sound cuttings by RKS and the late George Marino:
I have many reissues cut at Sterling, and over the years I’ve noticed they’re especially sensitive to precise alignment and setup. Unlike Bernie Grundman or Kevin Gray cuts — which always tend to sound good — Sterling cuts seem to improve noticeably as your setup gets better dialed in. I used to prefer BG or KPG cuts over Sterling, but now I actually prefer Sterling. In my opinion, they’re significantly superior in terms of dynamics, detail, and bass tightness. That said, if your setup isn’t spot on, the opposite might be true. At least, that’s been my experience. I’m not talking about a comparison of same albums of course but general sound characteristics.
My observations are mainly based on jazz titles, not classical — so your mileage may vary.
I have many reissues cut at Sterling, and over the years I’ve noticed they’re especially sensitive to precise alignment and setup. Unlike Bernie Grundman or Kevin Gray cuts — which always tend to sound good — Sterling cuts seem to improve noticeably as your setup gets better dialed in. I used to prefer BG or KPG cuts over Sterling, but now I actually prefer Sterling. In my opinion, they’re significantly superior in terms of dynamics, detail, and bass tightness. That said, if your setup isn’t spot on, the opposite might be true. At least, that’s been my experience. I’m not talking about a comparison of same albums of course but general sound characteristics.
My observations are mainly based on jazz titles, not classical — so your mileage may vary.
If you mean by sound they don’t sound hard at all. Compared to a good original most reissues sound compressed and tweaked (EQed)
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