Thoress Phono Enhancer vs. Aesthetix IO Signature

[Mike Lavigne]

Guys - I haven't found any SET+horn owner of the IO. Both systems I heard it in, it's large stage, bass, muscle, dynamics, suited big speakers a lot. Any horn owners anyone knows with IO?

lots of tubes. did say multiple tubes?

and horns being so efficient one needs a very, very, quiet phono stage....unless you have a very high output cartridge (MM).

one system's 'big and bold' could be another system's noisy.

I'd make sure to try the Io prior to purchase in a horn based system. I owned an Io back in the day and love the product. and today's Io is no doubt much quieter.

 

[bonzo75]

lots of tubes. did say multiple tubes?

and horns being so efficient one needs a very, very, quiet phono stage....unless you have a very high output cartridge (MM).

one system's 'big and bold' could be another system's noisy.

I'd make sure to try the Io prior to purchase in a horn based system. I owned an Io back in the day and love the product. and today's Io is no doubt much quieter.

Yes, that's why I asked. It's a big bold muscly sound, I can see why big SS/push pull valves and cones/panels need it, not sure if horns would. Wouldn't a SUT solve the gain/noise issue though?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes, that's why I asked. It's a big bold muscly sound, I can see why big SS/push pull valves and cones/panels need it, not sure if horns would. Wouldn't a SUT solve the gain/noise issue though?

SUT's bring their own set of variables to the party. when they are great, they are really great. I've never lived with them long term as I could not get them to behave.

 

[Kcin]

Guys - I haven't found any SET+horn owner of the IO. Both systems I heard it in, it's large stage, bass, muscle, dynamics, suited big speakers a lot. Any horn owners anyone knows with IO?

No horns but I have run the Io Sig, with 2 supplies and volume controls with the 96db Orangutan's and my Wyetech 211c SET - there was nothing ill suited about it.

Some one in my group has the Thoress. .. I just don't see it as a contender against a tricked out Io with 2 supplies and carefully selected tubes... Its a great piece. Not as nuanced as the Io.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

No horns but I have run the Io Sig, with 2 supplies and volume controls with the 96db Orangutan's and my Wyetech 211c SET - there was nothing ill suited about it.

Some one in my group has the Thoress. .. I just don't see it as a contender against a tricked out Io with 2 supplies and carefully selected tubes... Its a great piece. Not as nuanced as the Io.

sounds like an amazing sounding setup. congrats.

 

[shakti]

I am currently listening to Kondo M7 , Thoeress Phono and Aesthetix IO signature with 2 PSU.
My mainly used speakers are currently Zingali Client Name Evo 15' with Air Tight 211 mono SET.
So I am now selling my IO , because of noise floor.
Listening to my YG Anat II ref prof speakers, the IO was my preferred Phonostage, with Zingali (97db) and SET it does not make too much sense.
I still prefer the Kondo M7 / Kondo SPZ combination over the Thoeress, but the difference is minor and both preamps are sonically very close to each other.

2 weeks ago, I hosted a analog workshop at my home and Reinhard Thoeress himself came along as a visitor. So we enjoyed a long night and I was changing between Kondo and Thoeress, after a while we started to be unable to say, which phono pre is running...., means, without a clear A : B comparison, I can listen to the Thoeress without missing anything, just enjoying the silence and the flexibility.

In my opinion the Thoeress chassis is not very robust, so you the Preamp is getting much better, if supported from HRS M3X platform, HRS feats and HRS top plate. At least this is the case in my set up. I compared the Thoeress to Kondo , both supported by HRS, but Kondo does benefit only a little from HRS, Thoeress a lot.

There might be better platforms for the Thoeress, but HRS is the system I own, so I am using it.

Juergen

 

[Kcin]

I am currently listening to Kondo M7 , Thoeress Phono and Aesthetix IO signature with 2 PSU.
My mainly used speakers are currently Zingali Client Name Evo 15' with Air Tight 211 mono SET.
So I am now selling my IO , because of noise floor.
Listening to my YG Anat II ref prof speakers, the IO was my preferred Phonostage, with Zingali (97db) and SET it does not make too much sense.
I still prefer the Kondo M7 / Kondo SPZ combination over the Thoeress, but the difference is minor and both preamps are sonically very close to each other.

2 weeks ago, I hosted a analog workshop at my home and Reinhard Thoeress himself came along as a visitor. So we enjoyed a long night and I was changing between Kondo and Thoeress, after a while we started to be unable to say, which phono pre is running...., means, without a clear A : B comparison, I can listen to the Thoeress without missing anything, just enjoying the silence and the flexibility.

In my opinion the Thoeress chassis is not very robust, so you the Preamp is getting much better, if supported from HRS M3X platform, HRS feats and HRS top plate. At least this is the case in my set up. I compared the Thoeress to Kondo , both supported by HRS, but Kondo does benefit only a little from HRS, Thoeress a lot.

There might be better platforms for the Thoeress, but HRS is the system I own, so I am using it.

Juergen

Congratulations on a great system!

 

[Kcin]

lots of tubes. did say multiple tubes?

and horns being so efficient one needs a very, very, quiet phono stage....unless you have a very high output cartridge (MM).

one system's 'big and bold' could be another system's noisy.

I'd make sure to try the Io prior to purchase in a horn based system. I owned an Io back in the day and love the product. and today's Io is no doubt much quieter.

Absolutely agree, consideration to your system priorities is crucial... at this level you have to be very committed. I have spent 000's on finding just the right combination of tubes at the noise floor that is required. Not engaging in this is kind of like expecting the Porsche Turbo S to perform with tires from Walmart.

Should the manufacturer provide a solution for tube noise or compromise with ss devices on the input or SUTS?--- well maybe if he wants to appeal to the broader user. The alternative is that the mfr. provides current production tubes and understands that the product is "malleable" to the better with custom choices.

I guess one could call the design flawed in this regard. I'm willing to live with it based on the alternatives. I heard the CH precision 1 box a few weeks ago and have heard the Tenor phono on multiple occasions. Superb products. I felt the CH to be missing a little life or tactile presence.... and well, the tenor is fabulous but the price is obscene.

Even today, with a product that is effectively unchanged in over 15 years, the Io can still be spoken about in the same company of the components that represent the SOTA in 2017- and with care can compete based on your sonic priorities. I would expect the Thoress to be quieter given its input stage is JFET.

 

[jeff1225]

No horns but I have run the Io Sig, with 2 supplies and volume controls with the 96db Orangutan's and my Wyetech 211c SET - there was nothing ill suited about it.

Some one in my group has the Thoress. .. I just don't see it as a contender against a tricked out Io with 2 supplies and carefully selected tubes... Its a great piece. Not as nuanced as the Io.

Kcin,
Have you moved away from your Stats to the Devore's? I'd love to see more pictures of your system.

 

[Kcin]

Kcin,
Have you moved away from your Stats to the Devore's? I'd love to see more pictures of your system.

Hi there,

No,I have not moved away from the stats but landed on deal I could not refuse. Right now after a audition for a few months a friend has them to try on his Cary mono 211s . I may keep them. Right now the Beveridges are not going anywhere. After some tweaking to the subs a 1st order cross over and the direct drive amp which sheds the step up transformer of the tube amp along with the step up transformer of the stat...the purity is unreal.

Stay tuned for when the Orangutans come back.

 

[dctom]

Dont have any experience of aesthetix, I know a lot of people swear by the Io and I did consider it myself, however I also read lots of reports on how it can be noisy. Having owned a Bat phono ph10se which had ten valves and could be temperamental on noise (whilst sounding very good) I decided against something which contained so many.
Of the other phonos I have owned, Linn, naim etc - ARC ref 2, Dart NHB pre with phono (model 1) and loans of whest, Allnic and Thoeress et al, the quietest (by some margin) and best sounding in my system has been the Ypsilon VPS100.
Another point, from my listening, is the way cartridges react in different ways with the various phono stages in terms of sound quality.

 

[shakti]

as cartridges interact with the phono stages, I still use step up transformers in my system, as for instance my Transfiguration Proteus prefers this a lot.
Also the Thoeress Phono will play this way as full tube design phono pre, as the jfet MC is bypassed, without increasing the noise floor.

 

[bonzo75]

Which SUT? Have you tried auditorium homage? And did you manage to listen to the Silvercore?

 

[shakti]

I have not tried the Auditorium homage , but had the different quality levels from Silvercore. They are really good for the price point,
but still a big quality gap compared with Kondo SPZ.

 

[bonzo75]

Is that his top as well? Btw his top SET is really good though never compared it.

 

[shakti]

I was told, that we compared the Top of the line silvercore step up, but may be he has on special order an even better version.

 

[Tango]

as cartridges interact with the phono stages, I still use step up transformers in my system, as for instance my Transfiguration Proteus prefers this a lot.
Also the Thoeress Phono will play this way as full tube design phono pre, as the jfet MC is bypassed, without increasing the noise floor.

Hello Shaki,

I only tried the Thoress for a week in my system and used it for phono. My agent, just told me the Thoress can be used as tape head amp in P6. Is that true. And how does it sound?

Best regards,
Tang

 

[bonzo75]

Hello Shaki,

I only tried the Thoress for a week in my system and used it for phono. My agent, just told me the Thoress can be used as tape head amp in P6. Is that true. And how does it sound?

Best regards,
Tang

How did that compare to the Ayon?

 

[awsmone]

Didn't Gia have the top Audionote and change to the CH P1 same as Fremer ?

 

[Tango]

How did that compare to the Ayon?

Sawasdee Bonzo,

Soundwise both of them are excellent. A few of us including an internationally known speaker designer were auditioning both units to decide which one to bring to show at Bangkok Audio Video last year. The Ayon stood out more in term of dynamic, rythmic and a bit more quiet (we were using 107db sensitive speakers). So they borrowed my Ayon for the show. However, interm of flexibility, the Thoress offering is so much more. We didnt play around with the adjustments though. Ayon only has two mc inputs without any adjustability in gains. They are fixed at around 70 db. limiting choice of cart.

Kind regards,
Tang