Thread: A Search for Truth and Tonality, Part 2 ...

From http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?6758-Do-we-use-our-ears&p=112964&viewfull=1#post112964 ...

...and all that old tape electronics was some pretty sucky trnasistors and electrolytic capacitors and carbon resistors and bunches of metal to metal connections at the circuit card connections and printed circuit boards and oscillators and poor power suply rejection and all the other "audiophile bad" things....I am just sayin
Ahh, but we're talking of a mystical device here, Tom; a great magic wand has been waved across it, and all those "inadequacies" you describe fade away, as if to dust. My goodness, even a humble all-in-one HT system, with inherently quite superior components and overall construction can't possibly think of entering the same neighbourhood, let alone room of such a noble machine ... :b:b

Frank
 
From http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?6773-Synergy&p=112962&viewfull=1#post112962 ...

my thinking was not synergy, it was putting together gear with as little intrusion on the musical message as possible. the most linear and least distortion.

i think my direction is not unusual. i would think many have approached things in a similar way.
Au contraire, Mike!! I believe that is indeed quite dangerous thinking ... could have you severely reprimanded for such "audiophilic impure" thoughts ... ;);)

Frank
 
Bob, I'm truly intrigued by the twists and turns of your mind, or ... sense of humour! Electric chairs? Hissing toilets? Pray enlighten me, I'm all ears ... :b:b

Frank

I was just 'hissing' noise of my own.
...Simple sense of humor; to break free of too much seriousness sometimes.

Frank, I'm like that sometimes; shoot what crosses my 'cervelle'.
But the toilet hissing is true; I was trying to fix it earlier today.

Don't read more than what truly it is; nothing at all. :b

* By the way, I'm against capital punishment; death.
 
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Frank, I'm like that sometimes; shoot what crosses my 'cervelle'.
But the toilet hissing is true; I was trying to fix it earlier today.
Ahhh, now we have something meaty to deal with: first of all, get a measurement microphone, and the highest quality R2R, or maybe that should be a digital recorder, hmmmmm; then record the sound at various distances, noting the quality of the acoustic surfaces for a full understanding of the reverberant sound. Especially, try and capture the vertical content of the soundstage, so that someone may deduce precisely the height of the sound from the floor. Do a full spectrum analysis, lots of juicy FFTs; it would be useful to try and determine the precise width of the sweet spot for hearing the sound ... . Then, send all this information off to an acoustics analysis laboratory and see if they can shed some light on the nature of this "distortion" of your toilet's sound ...

Or, alternatively, lift the lid on the cistern, and replace the inlet valve assembly ...

Whichever ... :b:b

Frank
 
OK, Frank, I see my question asking for details is being ignored - too searching, I guess?
Fine, enjoy yourself :)
 
OK, Frank, I see my question asking for details is being ignored - too searching, I guess?
Fine, enjoy yourself :)
No ... it's just missing the point. I could say that all power supplies are not good enough, that all connections that are not hard wired are not good enough, that all means of filtering out electrical interference are not good enough, that all methods of minimising static interference are not good enough, that all techniques for preventing parts of the circuit acting as antennae are not good enough. And that I have used various ways of improving those aspects of construction and behaviour over the years, which is constantly evolving and changing, depending upon everything: what I have learnt to that point, and how well the particular device already functions -- there is no correct way, and most likely never will be: many of the things I do are highly likely to be redundant, I'm still learning.

Some of the modifications I now make I consider IP because they are my original methods for solving a particular problem. But the problems they're solving are the same ones that designers and DIY enthusiasts have agonised about, and devised numerous solutions to, over the years. And, the key method for getting my original burst of good sound, over 25 years ago, was as simple as getting as close to completely hard wiring the complete system as I thought possible, and reasonable, at the time -- from the mains wires in the wall cavity to the speaker driver terminal was a path with not a single connection relying on nothing more than one piece of metal pushing against another piece of metal to make a high integrity connection ...

EDIT: I'll give you a concrete, simplistic example of where I consider current gear gets it wrong: you buy a preamp and power amp having combined cost of $100,000, and then connect the two together using ICs with RCA connectors. With that one action you've effectively thrown, say, $90,000 of the possible performance value of those components in the rubbish bin ... from my POV.

Frank
 
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Frank, why then take up so much bandwith on this forum if all you have to say are platitudes but you have IP that you don't want to reveal. Completely senseless waste of time.
As the saying goes "move along now, nothing for you here" - which advice I will take!
Enjoy whatever it is your enjoying, bye!
 
Why I "waste bandwidth" is because my message is that the "solution" is not additive, but subtractive. Echoing the thread on synergy, which to some degree "understands" that there can be a "right" combination of components, that performs to a level that seems to outstrip the intrinisic quality of the gear; what I'm saying is that the solution will rarely occur by adding a little bit more quality here, a lot more there, a never ending dance of upping by various amounts, chunks of quality, hither and thither.

Rather, you subtract the weaknesses: problem areas are identified and fixed -- it's as simple as that: the "breakthroughs" occur by resolving the bad bits, not shining to a higher and higher polish the obvious and conventional parts ...

So, what I'm "enjoying" are the fruits of taking that particular approach. The IP are shortcuts I've found that help that technique, they are not essential: this is indicated by others getting similar results to me, without using those particular bits of knowledge ...

Frank
 
As a straightforward example of where additive solutions are not the smart way, consider again my earlier comment about the $100,000 amp combo actually delivering $10,000 worth of sound quality, because glaring weaknesses are not addressed. So the owner admires the bling of his setup, but is still not happy -- he's not getting $100,000 of sound quality. He says to himself, Right! I'll have to get the $200,000 combo to up the ante, and he does, but, lo and behold, 90% of the possible quality is flushed down the toilet yet again, so he actually gets $20,000 of effective sound quality: he's still not a happy camper ...

Desperate now, he says, I'll have to go for the $400,000 combo!, and he pulls out the cheque book -- I won't bore you with the next bit ...

Me, I would be content in "platitude" land, by taking the $100,000 discarded effort, at a special throwaway price, subtracting the worst deficiencies so that nearly all of the 90% losses of quality are eliminated, and end up with close to genuine $100,000 sound quality, first go.

Methinks, I might be a touch more content than the other bloke ...

Frank
 
-----I always hang around Frank; you should know that by now. :b

* Yesterday I just checked two lottery tickets; no winner! :(
... I bought another one; didn't check the numbers yet. ... :b ... You'll know when I win big.
... I'll be travelling the world in style. :b ... No more Internet for a very long while ....
 
Just read the revew of the Arcam D33 DAC by Alan Sircom, and this is so telling: very boring engineering, nothing special in the converters used, casing is as simple as. Yet, Alan's commentary indicates that this is as close to the best digital sound he's ever heard, in all the right areas, that mean so much to audiophiles. So why the magic ...??

The giveaway: the Arcam designers threw everything at it in terms of making sure the power supplies were engineered to an inch of their lives, enormous effort in shielding and isolating the important areas, stopping vibration undermining their effort. No cute gimmicks, no flavour of the month nonsense; just solid, solid engineering. THIS ... is how you get digital working properly, and if you don't go to the efforts used for this device, then you won't get the results in terms of quaility of sound ...

Digital can be made to yield forth, but the right approach must be used ...

Frank
 
Frank, are you a regular reader of the audio mag hi>fi+? :b
Nope, just came across people talking about this particular D/A converter on another forum, and did a little digging. If you go to the Arcam website, that very positive review by Alan, strangely enough :b, is part of the promo material. Every now and again you come across bits of audio machinery, where the designers really have developed a good understanding of what's truly important, and I think it's worthwhile pointing an approving digit in their direction ... ;)

Frank
 
As a follow up, I noticed the reference to the Bricasti unit, then noted WBF Bruce's comment that he didn't like it: glazed and smeared highs. These are the classic audible symptoms of your typical volume control distortion artifacts, and lo and behold, the Bricasti has adjustable level setting of the balanced output. I'd put good money on that being the signal that Bruce auditioned, and grubby little potentiometers is a classic design weakness that cripples the chance of achieving true high end sound ...

Frank
 

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