Todd's AG Trio G3 System -- it's about time

[Skanda]

I lived with Trios and 4BH's for eight years. I REALLY enjoyed them. That was in 2002-2010. I guess my taste has changed as I now prefer this type of horn/tube sound. I know the Diesis are not a full horn system etc. but I love them with the 1-2 Watt 45 based Triode Lab mono amps.

sounds awesome even with the 1-2watt. is Triode a brand you are carrying now?

would be great to get your thoughts on how the diesis differs from the trios+4BH - the form factor of the diesis makes it much easier to manage than the ag's but I ask this as someone who has, unfortunately, never had a chance to listen to ag's and some curiousity around the difference the open baffle makes vs a full horn system.

still love my diesis horns and no interest in changing them out but hoping to get some tubes into that system in the near future!

 

[Rhapsody]

sounds awesome even with the 1-2watt. is Triode a brand you are carrying now?

would be great to get your thoughts on how the diesis differs from the trios+4BH - the form factor of the diesis makes it much easier to manage than the ag's but I ask this as someone who has, unfortunately, never had a chance to listen to ag's and some curiousity around the difference the open baffle makes vs a full horn system.

still love my diesis horns and no interest in changing them out but hoping to get some tubes into that system in the near future!

When I had the Trios I listened with low power, Kondo 2A3s with vinyl. For me it was sublime. The latest AG's are a different game, actually not my preference now with the active SS versions. I'm sure a lot of people love them and good for them!

With horns I'm a tube guy and preferably low power (1 Watt - 10 Watts) and vinyl. But that is just my personal preference nothing to do with good, bad or whatever. Just what I like.

The Diesis with low power are totally different in presentation vs AGs in general. Yes, Rhapsody is now a Triode Labs dealer. Once I heard the 1-2 Watt TL stuff on the Diesis Roma and Roma Triode I was a goner. I would recommend that anyone that has 100db+ efficient speakers and has not listened to good 45 or 2A3 tube set ups to give it a listen if possible. Again, not for everyone, but it sure can be magical sounding with gobs of harmonics, textures, incredible holographic sound staging with ultra transparency on the soundstage. Dynamics as well. It's not about power. It's about 100db+ efficiency and then the transformers in the amps which play a critical role in the sonic presentation.

Edit- These were my Trios in 2002.

 

[Ron Resnick]

still love my diesis horns and no interest in changing them out but hoping to get some tubes into that system in the near future!

Diesis with no tubes makes me think of Mississippi mud cake with no whipped cream on top.

 

[Maril555]

When I had the Trios I listened with low power, Kondo 2A3s with vinyl. For me it was sublime. The latest AG's are a different game, actually not my preference now with the active SS versions. I'm sure a lot of people love them and good for them!

With horns I'm a tube guy and preferably low power (1 Watt - 10 Watts) and vinyl. But that is just my personal preference nothing to do with good, bad or whatever. Just what I like.

The Diesis with low power are totally different in presentation vs AGs in general. Yes, Rhapsody is now a Triode Labs dealer. Once I heard the 1-2 Watt TL stuff on the Diesis Roma and Roma Triode I was a goner. I would recommend that anyone that has 100db+ efficient speakers and has not listened to good 45 or 2A3 tube set ups to give it a listen if possible. Again, not for everyone, but it sure can be magical sounding with gobs of harmonics, textures, incredible holographic sound staging with ultra transparency on the soundstage. Dynamics as well. It's not about power. It's about 100db+ efficiency and then the transformers in the amps which play a critical role in the sonic presentation.

Edit- These were my Trios in 2002.

View attachment 120859

Surprisingly 2A3 amps drive them so well, I would have expected at least 20-30 Wt needed to drive them realistically.

 

[Rhapsody]

Surprisingly 2A3 amps drive them so well, I would have expected at least 20-30 Wt needed to drive them realistically.

Surprises me as well. I'm more suprised with 1 Watt 45's driving my 98.5db Diesis. Last night someone was over to listen and he pulled his db meter out and we were at 90db with 95db peaks listening to the Doors, Yes and Led Zeppelin. I do have REL Carbon specials on the Roma Triode and REL REF 31 subs on the Roma downstairs in another set up.

I don't think much about power anymore. It's more about the transformers and the overall amp design vs the power rating. ymmv.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Interesting comment, Mike. "Knowing" aside, have you ever heard one that made you feel?

i was touched by my Axpona 22' encounter with the AG G3 with the itron playing dCS Apex digital. the room was a mess but some magic was going on. i've had a couple positive AG Duo positive experiences, and a more recent negative one. and i was very impressed with the Aries Cerat Aurora horns also at Axpona 22' but a very small room. and encountered various horns large and small over the years at shows. of course, heard ddk's horns at his place. loved it.

did any carry me away beyond what i hear in my system or kinda like that? i'd say they have an unexplored ceiling in my mind. do i have the mental energy to attack horns like i've already attacked my dynamic speakers and play the hand all the way out? i donno.

 

[Rhapsody]

i was touched by my Axpona 22' encounter with the AG G3 with the itron playing dCS Apex digital. the room was a mess but some magic was going on. i've had a couple positive AG Duo positive experiences, and a more recent negative one. and i was very impressed with the Aries Cerat Aurora horns also at Axpona 22' but a very small room. and encountered various horns large and small over the years at shows. of course, heard ddk's horns at his place. loved it.

did any carry me away beyond what i hear in my system or kinda like that? i'd say they have an unexplored ceiling in my mind. do i have the mental energy to attack horns like i've already attacked my dynamic speakers and play the hand all the way out? i donno.

You have a perfect room for a set of Trios/BH's!

 

[andromedaaudio]

On topic , Diesis not my thing

One recording could be I tron and one could be tubes not exactly sure, i ll see if i can find another recording as i made several during my visit , also organ music , the Trios bass is excellent if well adjusted off course .
This is the kind of horn i could see my self buying , id love to hear Todds system with the CH L10 / I tron , im sure its something special

 

[andromedaaudio]

Here is one with classical music , this could be tubes / soft presentation

 

[Skanda]

Diesis with no tubes makes me think of Mississippi mud cake with no whipped cream on top.

ha, different techniques for different freaks. I love the sound of ch precision with the diesis but it would be fun to play around with other amps. also i do all digital so for you ron that might be like mississippi mud cake without the chocolate!

@Rhapsody really cool to hear about triode, before I bought my ch I was looking at their 211 monos since i just love the sound of 211's and 845's. btw, i totally agree that the transformers/design are more imporant than the power rating. I don't know if my ch would be powerful enough for something less efficient like a magico (i think an mx.x would give a lot more room to play with) but certainly the i1 _feels_ more powerful than 100watts.

 

[Maril555]

Surprises me as well. I'm more suprised with 1 Watt 45's driving my 98.5db Diesis. Last night someone was over to listen and he pulled his db meter out and we were at 90db with 95db peaks listening to the Doors, Yes and Led Zeppelin. I do have REL Carbon specials on the Roma Triode and REL REF 31 subs on the Roma downstairs in another set up.

I don't think much about power anymore. It's more about the transformers and the overall amp design vs the power rating. ymmv.

True that

 

[sbnx]

The trios are a lot of fun -- both musically and audiophile. They are so revealing and transparent. Any little thing is audible. It has taken a lot of effort and listening but I am not far from having everything where I want it. I was too optimistic in thinking I would have it all done by the end of the Summer (2023). I should have everything in place and dialed in by the end of December or early January.

Once complete I will send out some invites for people to come visit if they want to hear them. If you are traveling to the Dallas area I'm sure you could also arrange some time with the kind folks at Rhapsody and listen to the Diesis with Kondo crack. And of course the M9's and their other goodies.

There are a few other audio stores around as well where you could sample a few other brands. Dallas is not too bad as far as brand representation at brick and mortar dealers. We have Magico, WIlson, B&W, Acora, Diesis, AlsyVox, Bayz, Rockport, Estelon, Von Schweikert, Sonus Faber and I'm sure a few others I forgot. If you are in the market for speakers surely between Avantgarde and that list you could find one that would push your buttons.

 

[Kozak170]

Surprises me as well. I'm more suprised with 1 Watt 45's driving my 98.5db Diesis. Last night someone was over to listen and he pulled his db meter out and we were at 90db with 95db peaks listening to the Doors, Yes and Led Zeppelin. I do have REL Carbon specials on the Roma Triode and REL REF 31 subs on the Roma downstairs in another set up.

I don't think much about power anymore. It's more about the transformers and the overall amp design vs the power rating. ymmv.

The Triode Lab 2A3 P-SET RSR Monaural Amplifiers - Double the SET Fun! Triode Lab 2A3 P-SET RSR Monaural Amplifiers - Positive Feedback

Triode Lab 2A3 P-SET RSR Monaural Amplifiers

positive-feedback.com

Those Triode labs 2A3s with big Hashimoto transformers, as stated in this review, can easily drive the Tannoy Westminster which is said to need at least 50 watts to be driven!
The design of Triode labs must be very special to be able to provide such a high current without any negative feedback.
How do you compare the Triode labs to Kondo 211 on Diesis?

 

[sbo6]

Hello Everyone. I realized had not posted any real details on the spacehorn other than the journey of integrating it. I recoreded two videos. One relates to the physical details of the spacehorn and attemps to answer questions related to how many one might need. The second video goes over some of the DSP software. I know these are a little long but there is a lot to go over. Let me know if you have any questions.

Nice video and I'm glad you're happy with your new speakers. One thing if I may add with regard to the # of bass modules - a benefit to additional bass modules would be less effort / lower distortion at the same SPL along with better low frequency dispersion into the room = possibly lower bass peaks / dips and better bass. Then there's the sonic benefit for further effortless and even more realistic bass.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Based on what i heard , id say 1 module per speaker / horn is more then enough

 

[Rhapsody]

The Triode Lab 2A3 P-SET RSR Monaural Amplifiers - Double the SET Fun! Triode Lab 2A3 P-SET RSR Monaural Amplifiers - Positive Feedback

Triode Lab 2A3 P-SET RSR Monaural Amplifiers

positive-feedback.com

Those Triode labs 2A3s with big Hashimoto transformers, as stated in this review, can easily drive the Tannoy Westminster which is said to need at least 50 watts to be driven!
The design of Triode labs must be very special to be able to provide such a high current without any negative feedback.
How do you compare the Triode labs to Kondo 211 on Diesis?

I don't want to go "off point" and this is the Trio thread, I've already interrupted. Sorry about that. I will just say that 45's, 2A3 and 2.5V 300Bs are different sounding than 211/845 designs, best discussion for some other thread.

 

[sbnx]

As far as bass output goes, one pair of dual space horns works very well in my room. As I mentioned in the video, the volume on the space horn goes from -12 to +12. I currently have it at -9 and that is a slight boost in bass over the large horn it integrates with. No doubt adding a second or third space horn would add more ease to the bass and take even more strain off the woofers. If placed and stacked between the speakers then I think it would be interesting as it would create an almost plane wave of bass coming at the listener.

There is one thing I need to add and clarify. In the video I talked about the bass rolling off at 35Hz and that if a second or third space horn were added then we could just turn down the higher bass frequencies and get overall deeper extension. I did experiment some with this and indeed it is possible even with a single space horn. But reintegration of the space horn would be needed for the bass to sound "correct". One thing I did not consider in the addition of a second or third space horn is the added circumference of the bass "horn" as this partially sets the lower cutoff frequency. I think by simply adding a second spacehorn on top it would automatically extend the frequency response. I would need to do some horn research to verify this or perhaps one of our resident horn experts/builders can elaborate.

 

[caesar]

i was touched by my Axpona 22' encounter with the AG G3 with the itron playing dCS Apex digital. the room was a mess but some magic was going on. i've had a couple positive AG Duo positive experiences, and a more recent negative one. and i was very impressed with the Aries Cerat Aurora horns also at Axpona 22' but a very small room. and encountered various horns large and small over the years at shows. of course, heard ddk's horns at his place. loved it.

did any carry me away beyond what i hear in my system or kinda like that? i'd say they have an unexplored ceiling in my mind. do i have the mental energy to attack horns like i've already attacked my dynamic speakers and play the hand all the way out? i donno.

You can keep your speakers on one side of the room, and set up some horns on the other side of the room. Just move your chair accordingly.

 

[caesar]

The trios are a lot of fun -- both musically and audiophile. They are so revealing and transparent. Any little thing is audible. It has taken a lot of effort and listening but I am not far from having everything where I want it. I was too optimistic in thinking I would have it all done by the end of the Summer (2023). I should have everything in place and dialed in by the end of December or early January.

Once complete I will send out some invites for people to come visit if they want to hear them. If you are traveling to the Dallas area I'm sure you could also arrange some time with the kind folks at Rhapsody and listen to the Diesis with Kondo crack. And of course the M9's and their other goodies.

There are a few other audio stores around as well where you could sample a few other brands. Dallas is not too bad as far as brand representation at brick and mortar dealers. We have Magico, WIlson, B&W, Acora, Diesis, AlsyVox, Bayz, Rockport, Estelon, Von Schweikert, Sonus Faber and I'm sure a few others I forgot. If you are in the market for speakers surely between Avantgarde and that list you could find one that would push your buttons.

Hey,
So what are you going to do now?

I guess there are always electronics and cables upgrades

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You can keep your speakers on one side of the room, and set up some horns on the other side of the room. Just move your chair accordingly.

Kedar has suggested i use a room in my house for horns. i told him to go ahead and ask my wife about it. i'm scared to.