Todd's AG Trio G3 System -- it's about time

[the sound of Tao]

I'm sorry if it appeared that way. Not intended to criticise tube lovers in any way, but there are some who (judging by their own postings) are obviously never going to investigate the alternatives. Maybe I was in that camp for 15 years or so. As you say, each to his own.

This comes in two parts I guess. The differences perhaps in being pro something versus being anti something.

Most people I’d imagine haven’t heard all the versions of everything and most people have some kind of a preference still. So being pro something doesn’t require a complete knowledge of everything.

Being completely anti something (rather than generally anti something) without stating some specific limitations perhaps is different to being pro something which can require less or no qualification. I can be completely in love with something and it can be my only expedience of a kind and that love can still be completely genuine and valid. Maybe it’s simpler to talk more in terms of the things we like rather than talking about the things we don’t.

 

[sbnx]

Got another 2 sets of Neodio B2’s. Too much fun playing with these things. It is like sculpting the soundfield. Amazing what they do.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I don’t think I will ever venture into SS world.

all solid state is not created equal, and to my ears the FM is not the most musical of solid state. no surprise it was not a favorable match.

and we certainly know that the G3's are a microscope for amplifiers. whether it's musicality, or overall life and realism. the right balance is critical.

another G3 user I know tried Kondo, I believe it was the Ongaku, and preferred the darTZeel 468's overall to it. he felt it was more real yet tonally rich and right. and he much preferred the darTZeel to the i-tron. not saying you should use darTZeel or you would also prefer it, more that I just wanted to just respond to your solid state perspective.

 

[LL21]

all solid state is not created equal, and to my ears the FM is not the most musical of solid state. no surprise it was not a favorable match.

and we certainly know that the G3's are a microscope for amplifiers. whether it's musicality, or overall life and realism. the right balance is critical.

another G3 user I know tried Kondo, I believe it was the Ongaku, and preferred the darTZeel 468's overall to it. he felt it was more real yet tonally rich and right. and he much preferred the darTZeel to the i-tron. not saying you should use darTZeel or you would also prefer it, more that I just wanted to just respond to your solid state perspective.

You have a finely tuned and extremely experienced ear. I have to say for solid state, I really liked what I heard from the FMA 108 monos. Lack of true all-out power for its Wattage was its primary issue for me. On a more minor basis, I felt that ts filigree in the treble, dexterity in the notes was quite remarkable, but ultimately I missed the absolute density of tone that is just a personal preference more than some kind of 'absolute sound'. I think that also left the sound '1 degree' off center towards cool. Not much though given its remarkable filigree of detail (which can often come across has razor sharp and quite robotic/cool, hyper-sharpened).

What were your own listening notes on the FMA?

Would love to hear the 468s someday...interestingly Absolute Sounds (importer of Robert Koda) also is the importer of Dartzeel (and Constellation and Trafomatic).

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You have a finely tuned and extremely experienced ear. I have to say for solid state, I really liked what I heard from the FMA 108 monos. Lack of true all-out power for its Wattage was its primary issue for me. On a more minor basis, I felt that ts filigree in the treble, dexterity in the notes was quite remarkable, but ultimately I missed the absolute density of tone that is just a personal preference more than some kind of 'absolute sound'. I think that also left the sound '1 degree' off center towards cool. Not much though given its remarkable filigree of detail (which can often come across has razor sharp and quite robotic/cool, hyper-sharpened).

What were your own listening notes on the FMA?

Would love to hear the 468s someday...interestingly Absolute Sounds (importer of Robert Koda) also is the importer of Dartzeel (and Constellation and Trafomatic).

my limited FMA exposure over the years is that it has the good texture and lack of grain of better solid state, but not quite the degree of texture, smooth highs, tonal fill and natural color, and flow the dart. the flow and immersion of the dart is what gets me. FM does not give me a taste of tubes.

I'm more reminded, by degrees, I'm listening to an amp with FM. maybe if I lived with one long term, my view would be different.

 

[LL21]

my limited FMA exposure over the years is that it has the good texture and lack of grain of better solid state, but not quite the degree of texture, smooth highs, tonal fill and natural color, and flow the dart. the flow and immersion of the dart is what gets me. FM does not give me a taste of tubes.

I'm more reminded, by degrees, I'm listening to an amp with FM. maybe if I lived with one long term, my view would be different.

Thanks and good to know.

 

[andromedaaudio]

As said before Lloyd you tried the lowest range baby mono blocs on your speakers .

Better you and sbnx give these a shot . FM 1811
Although on sbnx his high eff . horns the small 108 will perform much better.

May be you or sbnx can arrange a try out with FM acoustics and they will get some more WBF exposure

Touraj Moghaddam is as far as i know the importer for the UK.​

vertere TT

 

[Uwiik]

Just a statement; I am by no any way, shape or form try to denigrate those who prefers iTron or SS in general. In fact, most of audiophile I know around me 85-90% of the time will pick ss over tubes, my dealer definitely sold way more high end ss than tubes. I am in the minority perhaps but my audiophile friends thinks I have good ears. During the show some of the audience prefers the sound when the G3 was driven by FMA combo and CH Precision combo, FMA is crazy popular here for those who can afford it. All were my opinions for my own preference and some others but definitely is not a universal truth.

 

[andromedaaudio]

During the show some of the audience prefers the sound when the G3 was driven by FMA combo and CH Precision combo

They had them both
Which show was that?

 

[LL21]

As said before Lloyd you tried the lowest range baby mono blocs on your speakers .

Better you and sbnx give these a shot . FM 1811
Although on sbnx his high eff . horns the small 108 will perform much better.

May be you or sbnx can arrange a try out with FM acoustics and they will get some more WBF exposure

Touraj Moghaddam is as far as i know the importer for the UK.​

vertere TT

View attachment 122431

Yes, he was immensely helpful and gave me a truly unique opportunity to hear the 108 monos with the Wilsons and compare with the big Gryphon. The 108 monos had a filigree but not the muscle and to get up to the 1811 level is a big financial commitment which I was not ready to pursue based on the little I had heard. Just one of those things. Sometimes it strikes your fancy and sometimes it does not.

That said, i was impressed by what I did hear on the 2 times I spent listening.

 

[fbhifi]

Yes, he was immensely helpful and gave me a truly unique opportunity to hear the 108 monos with the Wilsons and compare with the big Gryphon. The 108 monos had a filigree but not the muscle and to get up to the 1811 level is a big financial commitment which I was not ready to pursue based on the little I had heard. Just one of those things. Sometimes it strikes your fancy and sometimes it does not.

That said, i was impressed by what I did hear on the 2 times I spent listening.

The only dart “monos” are either 458 or 468. The 108 is a stereo amp.

 

[microstrip]

The only dart “monos” are either 458 or 468. The 108 is a stereo amp.

As far as I remember the 108 is a dual mono amplifier in a single, but heavy package.

 

[Lagonda]

As far as I remember the 108 is a dual mono amplifier in a single, but heavy package.

Francisco, you are back ! You where missing in action for two month, are you OK ?

 

[LL21]

The only dart “monos” are either 458 or 468. The 108 is a stereo amp.

Actually, I was referring to the FMA 108 Monos. I have never heard the 468 or 458. Interestingly, I have heard the original 108 stereo amp by Dartzeel but very very long ago.

 

[Uwiik]

Yes, the two rooms was side by side so it was easy to swap amps. Indonesia High End Audio Show 2023 (IHEAC 2023).

They had them both
Which show was that?

 

[Carlos269]

Collecting Beethoven 5th third movement

Compare and contrast:

 

[bonzo75]

5th compares



some Beethoven 5ths. Forgot to grab the Solti pic and the Karajan box set in there

 

[LL21]

I like the Karajan '63...I super-enjoy the remastered Furtwangler WWII recordings particularly his 9th. Suitner a bit too cerebral. Hogwood interesting. Just ordered a remastering of the Gunter Wand cycle from Japan.

Of more recent recordings, I thought Zimerman, Xavier Roth, Honeck (all recently well reviewed) were ok. Fischer better but not super-memorable. Interestingly, of the newer ones, have found I have really enjoyed Jordi Savalls Beethoven Cycle.

 

[caesar]

Sell,sell,sell, $50 K $, 100 K, 250 K ! This hobby of ours has truly gotten ridiculous ! Sometimes i am ashamed to fall for all the B S !

yes, the prices have gotten out of control. I know a lot of well off guys, and if someone lives a truly rich life, pursuing many hobbies and interests, a lot of travel, etc., and they have less than $20M in the bank, the prices of the upper and middle tier of high end audio are cost prohibitive... but if guys are well off, know their tastes/ preferences and know what they are looking for, systems like the G3 are a lifelong dream and pursuit of their passion/ obsession come true...

with that said, you really gotta do your diligence and know who to trust... otherwise if you trust the herd, you will wind up with wilson / audio research/ d'agastino / dcs and $30K taiko streamer computer that gets obliterated by a $3K transport from china

finding people you trust is key, but people who masquerade as experts, like "worthless to the audio fans" roberto harley from the analytical sound are willing to mislead people over a $40 record!

 

[caesar]

Hi @Germanboxers , I hope you have been doing great. Any update on your system?