Totaldac versus Rockna Wavedream?

[xcowdoc]

Thank you. I appreciate the information. I want to try that.

Bob

 

[TheAudioElite]

I am new to this forum as i never really had time to post but during this pandemic i have found much more time so thanks in advance for even reading my post

i have been an avid collector for many years and now have 7 systems in my home 4 of which are pretty decent

recently i learned about Rockna and thus took a plunge and bought Rockna Signature balanced dac with its 1 tb Rockna Net Server thanks to great feedback. Never heard it but curious because of the owners experience and history. I brought it in and compared it directly to my Berkeley Ref 3 Dac which beat out my Zanden Stack 5000 Signature and 2000p transport. I loved it. I had all the detail stage control that i heard with the berkeley but oh my god it’s so much more organic the voices has so much substance and smoothness there was lingering air behind each note there was a naturalness to everything and the decays were incredible. These were the notes that i took. There seems to be a synergy between the Rockna server and the Dac that was incredible and it should be. I had my berkeley ref 3 fed by aes beu from my berkeley alpha usb converter so it was set up properly and the Rockna won. I moved the berkeley set into my room 2 now that has Jadis two box pre and 4 audio note kegon level 5 monos feeding Kharma Exquisite Midi Signature bi amped.

the rockna set is now my wonderful digital front end for my 7 series soulution pre and 700 soulution monos and raidho d5.1 in my dedicated listening room.

in all honesty i have never heard of totaldac but i have only heard great things about total dac

i can just say that the rockna set is incredible and my system has never sounded this good in my dedicated engineered listening room. i have recently discovered Aries Cerat and am very curious.

i currently have in my systems

Magico
Levinson ref 33 fully redone at george meyer AV
Zanden
Ansuz
Inakustik
Transparent OPus
Focal JM Lab Grande Utopia BE full line for theater
Meridian
Mcintosh
B and W
Von Schweikert sorry for spelling
and many more brands as i am a serious hoarder and rarely have time to sell

 

[xcowdoc]

Certainly yes )
Usb in that case is coming from the PC board itself inside the NET. After you connect the USB cable, select USB input on the dac, go to roon sittings, audio tab. Select the USB output which must be showing by then as your active zone. Its different from the zone of other output on the FPGA board of the NET (you can see they are all grouped together except USB).

Hi Saleh,

I tried what you suggested. When I connected the usb and selected usb on the dac. Going to the Roon setup under audio, the Wavedream appeared in addition to the Wavedream Net. I selected the Wavedream and was presented with options, but nowhere was there any usb option. Once again no sound. If I unplug the usb cable, there is no Wavedream selection available. I also turned the equipment and Roon off and restarted to no avail. Any other ideas? Thanks.

Bob

 

[Saleh84]

Hi Saleh,

I tried what you suggested. When I connected the usb and selected usb on the dac. Going to the Roon setup under audio, the Wavedream appeared in addition to the Wavedream Net. I selected the Wavedream and was presented with options, but nowhere was there any usb option. Once again no sound. If I unplug the usb cable, there is no Wavedream selection available. I also turned the equipment and Roon off and restarted to no avail. Any other ideas? Thanks.

Bob

Its been a while since i connected with USB, but as far as i recall, you will have 4 output options connected to your core, the NET. One is the regular zone for all other output, 2 are for nothing, the 4th should be the USB out. USB can be finky in general (even with other streamer i played with before like aurender n10 for example). The only thing you can do is disconnect/reconnect etc. Make sure the dac input is selected to USB, try both USB out of NET, and make sure to refresh roon. Its not as straightforward as spdif or I2s connections at times. But it works for sure

 

[skids929]

As a general rule, almost any dedicated streamer would be better than your mac.
Also, its not the type of connection that makes the biggest difference, its the way the streamer is designed first. Its circuits, power supply, etc.

I have tried USB, AES, Spdif and I2s. From same streamer to same dac, they will sound slightly different. I stick with I2s with NET and wavedream dac as it sounded the best to my ears. From my own experience - and i could be worng, Usb tend to sound "bigger" than spdif/AES, but flatter and less 3d/ less focused. I2s kinda had the best of both worlds.

A streamer will have lower noise floor generally, correct. And that is not "noise" you could hear like static etc. It masks the music, like a smeared window sort of. A streamer will give u more music, less masking and a clearer window. Also, it will reclock, providing more musical, smoother playback. A laptop or a mac is only OK, but can't touch a dedicated streamer.

Hope that this helps!

Thanks for the reply, appreciate the detail. I think my only contention at this point (and it's a small one) is it's still only a half baked connection in the audiophile world. There doesn't doesn't seem to any agreed upon standard in terms of interface. Rockna uses HDMI, others use something else, seems all over the place in that regard. Not to mention wildly different reports of who's implementation sounds good/bad or different than any of the other standards. So, I wonder, do I run the risk that if/when that's all finalized my connection is out dated or not the ideal etc etc. Just random thoughts..Either way, what information I have read does seem to all lead to dedicated streamer = better than Macbook via USB/Audirvana.

I just need to figure out a way to allow for my ears to decide once the Wavelight Streamer is released.

 

[skids929]

Also, how are you connected to your streamer? Ethernet I assume? I only have the ability to do that with ethernet plugged into an Eero on the wall at the moment and not direct off the router (unless I add a run of LAN to the upstairs room my audio equip is in). What are your thoughts there?

We have wifi 6 and faster tier internet. I am less worried about speed than I am about fidelity with that set up.

 

[Saleh84]

Also, how are you connected to your streamer? Ethernet I assume? I only have the ability to do that with ethernet plugged into an Eero on the wall at the moment and not direct off the router (unless I add a run of LAN to the upstairs room my audio equip is in). What are your thoughts there?

We have wifi 6 and faster tier internet. I am less worried about speed than I am about fidelity with that set up.

The ethernet and its tweaks are a whole other story. And yes, noticeable difference in SQ comes from that. Ethernet is Much better than wifi, any wifi. Upper tear of streamer don't even have that wireless option, maybe just airplay and that's for convenience. But certainly no wifi connection for main playback option.
You could take your ethernet from the wall, not necessarily the router. Have an Audiophile switch inbetween wall and streamer. Something like etherregen from uptone audio.
First, start with getting the wavelight server when its released, once you believe there is a serious jump in SQ when the source is of higher grade, then you can tweak further if you wish to )

 

[dctom]

The question I have in all of this, is exactly how does a streamer add sonic benefits to a DAC over-and-above USB (properly implemented). Let's use Rockna as an example due to the obvious synergies in their streamers with their DACs. What is it about adding a streamer that improves the sonics of the dac? I am wrestling with whether to go up in the line and get a better version of a Rockna, or just add a streamer to a Wavelight DAC when it's released. Of the two options in consideration, want to learn the technical aspects of adding a steamer and benefits it provides over the widely used USB connection. I understand it removes the USB/Macbook from the chain, so ultimately am I just lowering the noise floor by adding the streamer and removing the Macbook? I also understand the easre of use a streamer can add and generally don't care about that since this is on my desk so streaming isn't a benefit here. I mainly want to know of the sonic benefits as a source component...Is it better than just moving up to a better dac (truly balanced for example) or are there considerable benefits to adding a complimentary streamer of the same brand as the dac.

I wish I could just audition this, but unfortunately don't have that opportunity to do that where I live with and due to the limited distribution of this brand.

I have a Lampizator GG and have gradually improved the streaming facility (playing local files) from lap top, 1st diy server through to my latest server build (photo attached). Each build has improved the sound coming from the GG, I tried an Auralic server streamer and it was not as good. Everything I have read about streaming servers priorities the quality of the power supply the goal being to reduce noise and have as much headroom in the power supply as possible.
The Rockna idea of synergising server and DAC is a great idea and is something I would like to try. I hope to try out a Rockna Dac in the not too distant future.

I am listening to a good example of the above philosophy - experimentally, playing my streamer through a 10yr old Benchmark DAC which is normally used with the TV/laptop audio set up. The sound quality is totally transformed - stage is twice as wide, deeper more dynamic with far less grain and excellent tonality. I would go so far to say the streamer is every bit as important as the DAC.

I put the server in a case to match the power supply which is a dual rail Paul Hynes SR7 turbo silver version. It delivers a total of 22amps with 40 amp transients. The server has an i7 9700k cpu which is a much higher power than the ones in commercial units (unless you get to the likes of the SGM extreme!) and other tweeks picked up from the AS forum (aka computer audiophile).

I use usb connection as I can then use HQplayer to upsample to 384 Hz or 2 or 4 x DSD.

 

[skids929]

The ethernet and its tweaks are a whole other story. And yes, noticeable difference in SQ comes from that. Ethernet is Much better than wifi, any wifi. Upper tear of streamer don't even have that wireless option, maybe just airplay and that's for convenience. But certainly no wifi connection for main playback option.
You could take your ethernet from the wall, not necessarily the router. Have an Audiophile switch inbetween wall and streamer. Something like etherregen from uptone audio.
First, start with getting the wavelight server when its released, once you believe there is a serious jump in SQ when the source is of higher grade, then you can tweak further if you wish to )

My biggest issue with the actual ethernet off the wall is it's on the wrong wall. So I'd either have to raceway it around the room to my desk location or move my desk to where the ethernet is located. What exactly does this uptone thing do for me? Clear noise off the line? I don't have an open lan port on my Eero so I'd have to put it into the LAN switcher I have. How is yours running?

 

[CKKeung]

I am new to this forum as i never really had time to post but during this pandemic i have found much more time so thanks in advance for even reading my post

i have been an avid collector for many years and now have 7 systems in my home 4 of which are pretty decent

recently i learned about Rockna and thus took a plunge and bought Rockna Signature balanced dac with its 1 tb Rockna Net Server thanks to great feedback. Never heard it but curious because of the owners experience and history. I brought it in and compared it directly to my Berkeley Ref 3 Dac which beat out my Zanden Stack 5000 Signature and 2000p transport. I loved it. I had all the detail stage control that i heard with the berkeley but oh my god it’s so much more organic the voices has so much substance and smoothness there was lingering air behind each note there was a naturalness to everything and the decays were incredible. These were the notes that i took. There seems to be a synergy between the Rockna server and the Dac that was incredible and it should be. I had my berkeley ref 3 fed by aes beu from my berkeley alpha usb converter so it was set up properly and the Rockna won. I moved the berkeley set into my room 2 now that has Jadis two box pre and 4 audio note kegon level 5 monos feeding Kharma Exquisite Midi Signature bi amped.

the rockna set is now my wonderful digital front end for my 7 series soulution pre and 700 soulution monos and raidho d5.1 in my dedicated listening room.

in all honesty i have never heard of totaldac but i have only heard great things about total dac

i can just say that the rockna set is incredible and my system has never sounded this good in my dedicated engineered listening room. i have recently discovered Aries Cerat and am very curious.

i currently have in my systems

Magico
Levinson ref 33 fully redone at george meyer AV
Zanden
Ansuz
Inakustik
Transparent OPus
Focal JM Lab Grande Utopia BE full line for theater
Meridian
Mcintosh
B and W
Von Schweikert sorry for spelling
and many more brands as i am a serious hoarder and rarely have time to sell

Hi TheAudioElite,
Congrats!
Rockna is definitely a very under-rated brand.

BTW are you connecting the NET server with the Signature via their HDlink sockets?
It's a proprietary I2S type of connection and offers much better sonic performance than their other spdif type of digital connections.
But it utilizes hdmi sockets so you have to find a good hdmi cable which gives good audio performance.

 

[TheAudioElite]

Hi TheAudioElite,
Congrats!
Rockna is definitely a very under-rated brand.

BTW are you connecting the NET server with the Signature via their HDlink sockets?
It's a proprietary I2S type of connection and offers much better sonic performance than their other spdif type of digital connections.
But it utilizes hdmi sockets so you have to find a good hdmi cable which gives good audio performance.

Hi CKKeung,

I have found a custom pure silver I2S cable that uses hdmi sockets between the rockna pieces, but I actually prefer my pure silver digital Inakustik cable. I have spent a good hour just today going back and forth on tracks that I know very well and the difference is sooooo small that it is very hard to tell, but in the end I think the digital cable is maybe 1-2 percent better. Maybe my imagination.

 

[CKKeung]

Hi CKKeung,

I have found a custom pure silver I2S cable that uses hdmi sockets between the rockna pieces, but I actually prefer my pure silver digital Inakustik cable. I have spent a good hour just today going back and forth on tracks that I know very well and the difference is sooooo small that it is very hard to tell, but in the end I think the digital cable is maybe 1-2 percent better. Maybe my imagination.

Yours is a Referenz Silver 2404 Air?

If so, the result may be due to the superiority of the Silver 2404 Air.

 

[TheAudioElite]

Yours is a Referenz Silver 2404 Air?

If so, the result may be due to the superiority of the Silver 2404 Air.

Yes You are absolutely correct. I believe it is the digital cable to made the difference.

 

[CKKeung]

Your "custom silver hdmi" is Revelation or Tubulus?
Tried the LUSH hdmi of Phasure yet?

 

[Saleh84]

So far on audioquest diamond pure silver and liking what i hear )) all my cabling is AQ, i just like how transparent and natural they are (the high end ones with psc+ and pss)

 

[Saleh84]

My biggest issue with the actual ethernet off the wall is it's on the wrong wall. So I'd either have to raceway it around the room to my desk location or move my desk to where the ethernet is located. What exactly does this uptone thing do for me? Clear noise off the line? I don't have an open lan port on my Eero so I'd have to put it into the LAN switcher I have. How is yours running?

I got lucky with a socket that is nearby.
I actually have an edgerouter without wifi, probably bigger improvement than an Audiophile ethernet switch. I have actually two sockets so I'm able to have the router near the rig, powered with a paul hynes sr5 LPS, then take ethernet back to a switch that distributes it around the home to various access points.
For your case, try playing with some cheap media converters (copper to fibre) as fibre is better for a very long run. There are plenty of pages on this forum and others how to tweak your ethernet, discussing many methods, switches etc. You will hear a difference, and once you do, you will slowly tweak it to your liking. I found these tweaks works weather u are using a streamer or not. And its cheaper to try )

 

[skids929]

So far on audioquest diamond pure silver and liking what i hear )) all my cabling is AQ, i just like how transparent and natural they are (the high end ones with psc+ and pss)

im using this cable for my USB-b>>C from my Macbook and it's really good.

 

[TheAudioElite]

Your "custom silver hdmi" is Revelation or Tubulus?
Tried the LUSH hdmi of Phasure yet?

I have to find out what hdmi cable it is but I will look into the cable you are talking about

 

[Forte]

There is now a bigger brother to Tubulus Argentus called Concentus.

 

[Forte]

Hi CKKeung,

I have found a custom pure silver I2S cable that uses hdmi sockets between the rockna pieces, but I actually prefer my pure silver digital Inakustik cable. I have spent a good hour just today going back and forth on tracks that I know very well and the difference is sooooo small that it is very hard to tell, but in the end I think the digital cable is maybe 1-2 percent better. Maybe my imagination.

Nicolae’s (Rockna) response was that if one were to have the same branded cable and with every possible connector between Rockna DAC and Net in an a/b/c test, i2S would be the superior connection.