I don't know about other companies, but I have to agree with every single thing you said of Miguel and his products. He is passionate and really enjoys what he does and when his clients experience their improved systems. He wants to know all about it and you can tell he really cares.
Tripoint troy signature grounding device
- Thread starter Audiocrack
- Start date
I don't know about other companies, but I have to agree with every single thing you said of Miguel and his products. He is passionate and really enjoys what he does and when his clients experience their improved systems. He wants to know all about it and you can tell he really cares.
I am very surprised to see the president of a company jumping into the thread of a competitor. I see it as being of bad taste to say the least and I am sure you would not appreciate it if it was the other way around. I don't know most of your products; Probably the many I have not heard are great but I don't know. But for me ethics and respect also counts. And iI find you are being disrespectful not only to all the Tory users here but most importantly to Miguel. I'm sure, he being a gentleman, will not go to product's posts and threads even if his products are maned there. Anyway is a free country I guess.
And does a US made product say anything about it besides the country where it was made? Is it better per se from being per instance German made, or Japan Made or UK made or where ever? For me is the quality of the products and how they sound that matters. Per instance getting back to your product lines, I only have heard your power cords and they may be made in the US but still IMHO they are very average, so where they are made is irrelevant (in my opinion that is, I hope you don't feel offended by an imparcial non interested opinion).
Anyway this started as a thread to talk and learn about what I find to be a great product: the Troy. Would be great if we can keep it that way.
If you were truly a passionate audiophile, you would have the room modded by now. In Amerika, that' show we roll....
I have read a little about the Illusonic stuff and that obviously represents the future (to some degree)....
+1. There is some subterfuge involved here. Jealousy is an ugly thing. Anyone interested can ask Miguel or Chris at Audioexotics....
I didn't jump into the thread. I didn't bring up our product in the thread. I am only correcting the record.
What part of this did you not read?
Personally I have respect for the Tripoint and for Entreq which was also brought up in the thread. While I have not personally used either it is clear that both are effective and very popular. And I don't know why it would be necessary to bring up our product as a counterpoint to either since we don't make a competing grounding product with either one. Further, I don't see why some people feel the need to disparage one product to justify the purchase or use of another product.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I agree so can we keep the disparaging remarks to yourselves. As I saw it Caelin was indeed correcting the record and did point out that the thread topic had nothing to do with Shunyata. So to Eli08 I see no problem with Caelin responding to correct a misstatement
Out of curiosity, why is there a provision for a signal ground in your unit currently? A lot of engineers believe signal and/or chassis grounding is tomfoolery....
I know (via Dale Pitcher and others) that Quartz can be a very effective EMI/RFI buster. What prior art inspired your patent and current boxes which Steve and others speak so highly of? If I did not own Dale's conditioner, it would certainly be on my list.....
I have read all you've said. And you have said many things in this Tripoint Troy Thread. Per instance:
****************
Someone said:
"Let's make one point clear,without Miguel there would be no other grounding devices"
And you replied:
Look you can use the Troy and love the Troy. I have no problem with anything you want to say about the product and how much you like it. But you can't make that statement. It is just not true"
********************
What does this has to do with your products I don't know, since as you well say you don't have a similar product in your line. You are just entering into a statement
made (true or not is pointless in this context) about a competitor and one of his products, where you do not have, as you say, a competing product. Why are you doing this? It is not to defend anything wrong said about your products. As you say you do not have a grounding product.
Or comparing your philosophy or strategy with that of Tripoint, while again giving your position on your interest and experiences (lack off in this case) with a tripping product:
*******************
I have never seen a Tripoint Troy or any of their products in person. I, like most of you, have no idea how they work or what's in them. And I have no interest in knowing. We do our own research and development and produce our products based upon that knowledge. The manufacturer of the Tripoint has chosen to keep their technology private and proprietary which is their prerogative. We have a unique noise reduction technology that is patented and public knowledge for anyone that cares to look it up.
Patent US 8,658,892
******************
You could have assumed that the people in the Tripoint Troy thread does not care what your personal interest regarding the Troy are, or for that matter your knowledge on them. What does all this have to do with your products?
Problem here is that you are A COMPETITOR hence you have interests and an agenda. And that is fine and normal. But you have your brands posts, threads and web page to use for that. The place for sure is not a post of a competitor's product.
I am curious to Know. Do you jump into every thread posted out there on the web where your products are named, even if they say something wrong about them? Cos there are a quite a few out there. I hope not.
See, if you would have jumped in just to say factual things ONLY about your product, not naming Tripoint, Troy AT ALL, your knowledge or interest IN IT, I would still find it very strange and of bad taste, but ok. The minute you mention a competitors products in their own threads, that I find it unacceptable and unethical.
That is my opinion. I hope you respect it. As I respect you and your products, by not going into a post of them and start talking about the tripoint power conditioner or power cables technology, manufacturing techniques, finish quality and so on. I think that would be pointless for me to do.
Anyway don't want to start a never-ending discussion, but yeas I did read what you said, and again to be a competitors thread you have said many things several times now.
I've never seen the president or apple jump into a samsung thread to defend their products even it the say inaccurate things about them, or plainly not true things about them. Or the Ford president into a BMW thread. Or Coke into Pepsi and so on...
What's wrong with this industry? Manufacturers should focus on just doing the best product possible and showing it to the world best way they can. What users say is free for them to say, even if they say things which are not true It happens all the time in all the markets and industries. If your products are good, don't worry: you or any other company will be ok. Apple is doing great and you can read a lot of BS in the web about their products. But they don't have to jump into every one to correct. They know they make a fine product and that's all they care about. And it shows.
And let me make this clear.
I have nothing against you or your company. Have very little knowledge of your products besides power cables, but I am sure you most be doing a lot of things right to stay in business for such a long time and having a popular brand. And I am happy for that. I wish no bad to no one.
Likewise, I have no interest what so ever in Tripoint, Don't know personally Miguel either. Nothing to do with the industry. Just a very happy owner of the Troy which along with the Thor cables have taken my system a material step above, beyond what other upgrades, many more expensive, have achieved. Same way as I am a happy user of TAD, Esoteric or SIltech to name a few.
And if for whatever reason, I saw Miguel or any other competitor of yours on a post of your products, saying they don't know your products or that they have no interest on them and other similar stuff, I would feel the same about these people. But I haven't seen it and I don't think I will. For what I know Miguel spends most of his time researching and finding ways to make his products sound better, which is what it is all about.
Anyway, please let's move on.
Steve Ias I have just posted he has more than that:
He could have said, per instance:
**************
We do our own research and development and produce our products based upon that knowledge. We have a unique noise reduction technology that is patented and public knowledge for anyone that cares to look it up.
Patent US 8,658,892
************
That would be correcting a misstatement. Then we could discuss if doing it at a competitors thread is ok or not and the discussion would have another dimension.
But he chooses to say:
**********
I have never seen a Tripoint Troy or any of their products in person. I, like most of you, have no idea how they work or what's in them. And I have no interest in knowing. We do our own research and development and produce our products based upon that knowledge. The manufacturer of the Tripoint has chosen to keep their technology private and proprietary which is their prerogative. We have a unique noise reduction technology that is patented and public knowledge for anyone that cares to look it up.
Patent US 8,658,892
**********
I don't think Miguel has ever named, or posted anything about his brand or products, less so in a thread of them. So I fell he should have the same consideration.
Hi Eli08,
There was no overt promotion here and no disparagement of any competitor. Someone brought our products up and made statements that were incorrect. As often happens, we get e-mail from people with comments about what they read here and elsewhere. Caelin felt the information needed correction and doesn't appear to have done any more than that. Clearly, you feel very proprietary about what gets said here and by whom, but it is an open forum so as long as rules of the forum are followed along with some professional decorum, it should be ok to correct a factual error and inform a topic.
People are free to be their own judge, but there was no hidden marketing away from Tri-point or toward our product. By all the comments I've heard and seen, Tri-point products are highly regarded. Opinions are fine and we generally leave those entirely alone. Misstatements of fact related to our products is another matter. The issue was addressed and its resolved. I see no reason to stray farther off topic than that.
Best regards,
Grant
Shunyata Research
There was no overt promotion here and no disparagement of any competitor. Someone brought our products up and made statements that were incorrect. As often happens, we get e-mail from people with comments about what they read here and elsewhere. Caelin felt the information needed correction and doesn't appear to have done any more than that. Clearly, you feel very proprietary about what gets said here and by whom, but it is an open forum so as long as rules of the forum are followed along with some professional decorum, it should be ok to correct a factual error and inform a topic.
People are free to be their own judge, but there was no hidden marketing away from Tri-point or toward our product. By all the comments I've heard and seen, Tri-point products are highly regarded. Opinions are fine and we generally leave those entirely alone. Misstatements of fact related to our products is another matter. The issue was addressed and its resolved. I see no reason to stray farther off topic than that.
Best regards,
Grant
Shunyata Research
See, is the same thing. You could have said:
**********
There was no overt promotion here and no disparagement of any competitor. Someone brought our products up and made statements that were incorrect. As often happens, we get e-mail from people with comments about what they read here and elsewhere. Caelin felt the information needed correction and doesn't appear to have done any more than that. it should be ok to correct a factual error and inform a topic.
People are free to be their own judge. Misstatements of fact related to our products is another matter. The issue was addressed and its resolved. I see no reason to stray farther off topic than that.
***********
And it would have been ok and happily the end of this, now, very boring saga. Although strikes me that is the second SR person jumping into another competitor thread. But that is ok. Each company decides how to use their limited resources and I assume you think this is a good way of using them. Fair enough.
But you added to that:
***************
Clearly, you feel very proprietary about what gets said here and by whom, but it is an open forum so as long as rules of the forum are followed along with some professional decorum,
but there was no hidden marketing away from Tri-point or toward our product. By all the comments I've heard and seen, Tri-point products are highly regarded. Opinions are fine and we generally leave those entirely alone.
************
There was marketing on your products: all over the posts of your president. (extensive research, transparency, open boxes (country to a competitor) patent xxx: the fact that these may be and probably are true statements does not contradict the fact that they represent marketing statements as well). I don't know what hidden marketing is. Never seen an definition of that. And I think it is not ethical to do that at a competitors thread. I don't care if it is done by you here, or by any other competitor of yours at any thread of your products. Is not good practice either way. It is nothing personal against your company. It is just the way it is for any company and/or industry.
Also when you say, No hidden "(?)" marketing away from Tri-point. That's the worst part of all this saga of posts. So we take it to factual similar cases to the extend possible, I can say I could find quite a few good lawyers, not me of course, who would say other wise: per instance they could argue, not clearly at all without merit, that when you say your products a based in good research and all that, naming Tripoint in the same paragraph but not saying the same of them, that you are implicitly saying they do not do any research, or something worse.
Moreover, even if you add that you know nothing of them or what they do in that same paragraph, these good lawyers could argue again that you, by using the name of a competitor in such a paragraph, are not acting according to good commercial and competitive practices, by implicitly leaving the doubt in consumers you are fighting for with such competitor, trying to get an economical benefit (not saying that you are doing it; just telling you what I've seen in similar cases). I've seen plenty of rules against companies fined for large USD in US courts for much less then that, making their competitors very happy. and probably in many of those cases they did act in good faith and it was not their intention, but that's how things are in corporate america.
Just say what you have to say of your company, if you think this is the place to do it... to correct what you think has been wrong said, and don't mention AT ALL any other companies or unrelated people to your company, or their products at all, specially if they are competitors, because almost every statement is open to different interpretations (as you can see in this thread), and you never know which one would prevail if things get ugly as sometimes they do. Something like "we find the claims made about our products respecting X Y and Z in this thread are without merit. We do deep research to try to get the best products and services to our clients and is out intention to keep doing it. If you want more information, please contact us at XXXXX" Keep it short and simple, and again, do not mention third parties, specially if they are competitors, and even more if they have not said anything anywhere ever about your company. That is what a good lawyer would advise you, have no doubt, if you were to ask.
I also can't stop from commenting what I find to be quite and incredible sentence coming from your company: "Opinions are fine and we generally leave those entirely alone" Well, many here and elsewhere could think: well thank you for GENERALLY leaving opinions of people alone. Your company is very kind to "generally", but not all the time, respect other peoples opinions. I want to think and I'm almost sure you did not think it twice before you wrote that sentence. Is very unfortunate.
Lastly, I feel not more proprietary of what has been said in this thread, then anyone else, like you, your president or anyone else who gives an opinion here. Difference between me and you or your president is that I'm not posting on a competitor's of my own business thread. I'm just giving opinions for what they are worth coming from an aficionado with no interest at all or agenda of any kind. I've posted quite a few times in this forum and elsewhere and have never been involved in something like this. It is quite unpleasant for me, and twice I said let's move on, but you at SR keep on coming back. At this point I politely ask you to leave me alone and to not refer to me anymore. I think you have a successful company widely known and with a long history. Congratulations for that. Once more, please let's move on.
Grant, Caelin did a little subtle (or not so subtle) editorializing, upset the natives, and got his balls busted. Lesson learned. And now back to the regularly scheduled programming....
The system is Esoteric grandioso 5 pieces digital (including the clock G01), TAD C600 preamps, TAD M600 monos and TAD Reference 1 speakers. Cables are mainly Siltech Double crown except for PCs of the Esoterics with are Mexcel PC 9500. I use a power distributor of Siltech, Octopus Double Crown. No power conditioner for me at this time. Had some in the past but decided to go without. Just a high quality power bar connected to a dedicated line. And of course the Troy SE. Have several Thor SE cables, but since the esoterica are quite new I am connecting them one by one. So far have only one of them connected to preamp and the improvement is remarkable over an already great system. You can see my system pics and description, in the system's forum's section.
NO i haven't heard any of Miguel's conditioners. Only the Troy and the Thor SE grounding cables. I assume they have to be great if they come anywhere close to the Troy's performance, but have not had first hand experience with any. Maybe in the future.
Best
Eli
Excellent. So in other words a very high resolution and low distortion system that would allow you to hear what if any changes grounding produced. I heard a demo of the Tripoint Orion and standard Troy at Axpona in 2011 and remember it like it was yesterday. The conditioner had an even more profound impact (possibly due to the show setting and general noisiness of the room, etc). I plan on acquiring a Troy signature soon....
Similar threads
