Tripoint troy signature grounding device

[Elberoth]

This is a little ironic coming from you in light of your Trinity advocacy where is point is even more painfully obvious.

On the contrary. The price for the Trinity DAC for example, becomes plainly obvious when one calculates the price handselecting 16 BB1704K DACs or two $4000 etreme performance crystal oscilators used. If you assume that the BOM in hiend audio is around 20%, the two XOs alone translate to $40k of retail price. Add the aftermentioned DAC chipsets, box, and all other stuff that goes inside, and the DACs BOM turns out to be much higher than the industry avg 20%.

So yes, the stuff may look expensive, but only to someone who has no idea how much stuff costs.

 

[strapper211]

Hi,
Let's make one point clear,without Miguel there would be no other grounding devices.He is the pioneer in this field and he is a perfectionist and you can see by the fit and finish on his products he does not settle for "that's good enough",he want's it to be the beat he knows how to build regardless of cost.I do not think these other grounding devices approach it the same way,these companys are lookings to make money on Miguel's passion.I have 2 Troy SE's and a Orion and 6 Thor SE grounding cables and I don't regret one penny spent on them,I just with I could afford a Emperor.The bottom line is you get what you pay for,Tri-point are serious components and it cost serious money but it performs,these other grounding products are produced to capitalize on Miguel's brainchild.

 

[Geardaddy]

On the contrary. The price for the Trinity DAC for example, becomes plainly obvious when one calculates the price handselecting 16 BB1704K DACs or two $4000 etreme performance crystal oscilators used. If you assume that the BOM in hiend audio is around 20%, the two XOs alone translate to $40k of retail price. Add the aftermentioned DAC chipsets, box, and all other stuff that goes inside, and the DACs BOM turns out to be much higher than the industry avg 20%.

So yes, the stuff may look expensive, but only to someone who has no idea how much stuff costs.

I find that a little hard to fathom. Is the cost of the 1704s derived from Dietmar's time? Peter from Phasure uses the same chipset and hand selects (but maybe not to the same degree). Tripoint versus Shunyata....Trinity vs Phasure.... At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding.

 

[Geardaddy]

Hi,
Let's make one point clear,without Miguel there would be no other grounding devices.He is the pioneer in this field and he is a perfectionist and you can see by the fit and finish on his products he does not settle for "that's good enough",he want's it to be the beat he knows how to build regardless of cost.I do not think these other grounding devices approach it the same way,these companys are lookings to make money on Miguel's passion.I have 2 Troy SE's and a Orion and 6 Thor SE grounding cables and I don't regret one penny spent on them,I just with I could afford a Emperor.The bottom line is you get what you pay for,Tri-point are serious components and it cost serious money but it performs,these other grounding products are produced to capitalize on Miguel's brainchild.

bingo. You have one of the few systems that I covet....

 

[Geardaddy]

A $4000 dollar oscillator wow, do you have a link to the part?
Keith.

I guess it depends on how extreme the performance is....

Did you see the Universe horns on display in HK? When are you going to shoehorn those into your pad?....

 

[CGabriel]

The title and purpose of this thread has to do with the Tripoint Troy product. However, our name and product have been brought up several times and there are several factual errors that I wish to correct.

It is similar to Shunyata Triton and Typhoon. Both have cans of minerals and they do work.

The Troy is a dedicated grounding device. The Triton/Typhon is a two chassis power conditioner. We do not currently make a dedicated grounding device. So the Triton and the Troy are different components. The Triton v2 does have a common "chassis grounding" feature that allows you to connect components to the internal ground system inside the Triton. This is not the primary function of a Triton and we consider it ancillary to the the Triton's power distribution functions.

Geardaddy: Not apples to apples in terms of technology. Does Shunyata manufacture their stuff in China?

I would be interested to hear what Shunyata claims to be doing. I know they use their new boxes in tandem....

All of our power distributors are made in the USA. Everything in a TRITON is made by Shunyata Research or a partner located in the US including the chassis, filters, wiring and the NICs which are handmade starting with the raw copper tubes. I am not aware of any manufacturer of a product similar to ours that reveals more about what and how they are made. You simply need to take a moment to look it up. http://www.shunyata.com/our-product.../582-hydra-triton-version-2-new#!01_Tv2_front [click on Features]

We also have full internal photos of the TRITON if you bother to look.
http://www.shunyata.com/our-product...-hydra-triton-version-2-new#!tritonv2_us_back [click on Gallery]

But we live in a competitive market. If the effects are easy to duplicate, at a much reduced cost, soon we will see a flood of similar devices in lower price ranges. It is already happening, with Shunyata, SR having simiar products already in their portofolio.

I have never seen a Tripoint Troy or any of their products in person. I, like most of you, have no idea how they work or what's in them. And I have no interest in knowing. We do our own research and development and produce our products based upon that knowledge. The manufacturer of the Tripoint has chosen to keep their technology private and proprietary which is their prerogative. We have a unique noise reduction technology that is patented and public knowledge for anyone that cares to look it up.
Patent US 8,658,892

Let's make one point clear,without Miguel there would be no other grounding devices.

Look you can use the Troy and love the Troy. I have no problem with anything you want to say about the product and how much you like it. But you can't make that statement. It is just not true. This introduction is directly from our CGS application guide:

Many of the practices that we use in audio have come from the early telecommunications industry.It was common practice to rack mount equipment in a metal rack. Everything in the rack wouldbe connected to a common ground using braided ground conductors. Every piece of equipmenthad a dedicated grounding lug for this connection. This practice continues today in both thetelecommunication and networking industry. Connecting all equipment to a central ground pointensures electrical safety and eliminates voltage differences between component chassis’.


In the early days of audio, virtually all audio manufacturers followed this practice with the inclusionof ground terminals on the back of the components. All the component’s chassis grounds couldbe wired together with ground braid. This helped to reduce ground loops and hum since mostequipment came with single-ended RCA or Phone jacks instead of balanced connections.


With the advent of mass market consumer audio products and plastic chassis’ there were more andmore components that did not include a ground terminal. The one exception being for turntable andphono preamps where ground terminals are required to prevent hum. Of course, turntables and phonopreamps are remnants that have survived from an earlier generation of audio systems.


Although some equipment no longer comes with a dedicated chassis ground terminal, it is stilladvantageous to ground all of your equipment to a common ground point. This reduces groundloop hum and noise problems. It can also improve system performance even if you don’t have anyaudible ground loops or hum.


=============
So, I apologize to the Tripoint fans for the intrusion into your discussion about the Troy. If you want to talk about our products in whatever context please start a thread in the Shunyata Forum.

Thanks,

 

[Geardaddy]

The title and purpose of this thread has to do with the Tripoint Troy product. However, our name and product have been brought up several times and there are several factual errors that I wish to correct.



The Troy is a dedicated grounding device. The Triton/Typhon is a two chassis power conditioner. We do not currently make a dedicated grounding device. So the Triton and the Troy are different components. The Triton v2 does have a common "chassis grounding" feature that allows you to connect components to the internal ground system inside the Triton. This is not the primary function of a Triton and we consider it ancillary to the the Triton's power distribution functions.




All of our power distributors are made in the USA. Everything in a TRITON is made by Shunyata Research or a partner located in the US including the chassis, filters, wiring and the NICs which are handmade starting with the raw copper tubes. I am not aware of any manufacturer of a product similar to ours that reveals more about what and how they are made. You simply need to take a moment to look it up. http://www.shunyata.com/our-product.../582-hydra-triton-version-2-new#!01_Tv2_front [click on Features]

We also have full internal photos of the TRITON if you bother to look.
http://www.shunyata.com/our-product...-hydra-triton-version-2-new#!tritonv2_us_back [click on Gallery]



I have never seen a Tripoint Troy or any of their products in person. I, like most of you, have no idea how they work or what's in them. And I have no interest in knowing. We do our own research and development and produce our products based upon that knowledge. The manufacturer of the Tripoint has chosen to keep their technology private and proprietary which is their prerogative. We have a unique noise reduction technology that is patented and public knowledge for anyone that cares to look it up.
Patent US 8,658,892



Look you can use the Troy and love the Troy. I have no problem with anything you want to say about the product and how much you like it. But you can't make that statement. It is just not true. This introduction is directly from our CGS application guide:

Many of the practices that we use in audio have come from the early telecommunications industry.It was common practice to rack mount equipment in a metal rack. Everything in the rack wouldbe connected to a common ground using braided ground conductors. Every piece of equipmenthad a dedicated grounding lug for this connection. This practice continues today in both thetelecommunication and networking industry. Connecting all equipment to a central ground pointensures electrical safety and eliminates voltage differences between component chassis’.


In the early days of audio, virtually all audio manufacturers followed this practice with the inclusionof ground terminals on the back of the components. All the component’s chassis grounds couldbe wired together with ground braid. This helped to reduce ground loops and hum since mostequipment came with single-ended RCA or Phone jacks instead of balanced connections.


With the advent of mass market consumer audio products and plastic chassis’ there were more andmore components that did not include a ground terminal. The one exception being for turntable andphono preamps where ground terminals are required to prevent hum. Of course, turntables and phonopreamps are remnants that have survived from an earlier generation of audio systems.


Although some equipment no longer comes with a dedicated chassis ground terminal, it is stilladvantageous to ground all of your equipment to a common ground point. This reduces groundloop hum and noise problems. It can also improve system performance even if you don’t have anyaudible ground loops or hum.


=============
So, I apologize to the Tripoint fans for the intrusion into your discussion about the Troy. If you want to talk about our products in whatever context please start a thread in the Shunyata Forum.

Thanks,

That is what I suspected. I briefly read verbiage about your newest products on this site via Steve Williams. They sounded promising, and I am thrilled they are made in the USA. How refreshing.

So other than the historical reference to Telecommunications and the long time lapse in the reintroducing chassis grounding, etc, what prompted you to incorporate it into your boxes? Since you are an apparent man of "science," you do realize that concepts can percolate for years only to be popularized by individual such as Miguel, and for that he deserves credit.

Patents are tricky for many reasons. They can become "licenses to steal" if you do not have the recourses for good legal counsel (most of boutique, hi end audio). They can also be a provisional, manipulative foray into a respective field where originality can be predicated on language alone (which to me represents the worst kind of sophistry). I have been there and done during my research years as a medical student. It was a rude baptism.

AC power transmission is typically transmitted as a sine wave at a frequency of 50 or 60 hertz. Power lines are susceptible to EMI (electromagnetic interference) and RFI (radio frequency interference) due to the fact that power lines are relatively long and are generally not shielded. The EMI/RFI noise transmitted along with the power line frequency can interfere with the proper operation of electronic equipment. It is especially harmful to the sonic performance of high-end audio and video equipment. It is therefore desirable to substantially reduce or entirely eliminate EMI/RFI before it enters an electronic device.

and

. A field coupling device, comprising:
an enclosure;
an electrically conductive plate disposed within said enclosure;
a ferroelectric substance sealed within said enclosure and surrounding said plate; and
a power wire passing through said enclosure and electrically connected to a single point to said plate within said enclosure.

So your idea is to electrically couple electrical transmission via copper wire to or through an unknown ferrous composite that filters EMI/RFI juju? Do you have measurements or a way to substantiate this reduction of EMI/RFI into said system? I am a dumb surgeon so help me out...

 

[kevinkwann]

A $4000 dollar oscillator wow, do you have a link to the part?
Keith.

LOL!! Thanks for posting that. I was thinking the same thing. His comment redefines the notion of "preposterous" to everyone, I suspect, but him.

 

[CGabriel]

That is what I suspected. I briefly read verbiage about your newest products on this site via Steve Williams. They sounded promising, and I am thrilled they are made in the USA. How refreshing.

So other than the historical reference to Telecommunications and the long time lapse in the reintroducing chassis grounding, etc, what prompted you to incorporate it into your boxes? Since you are an apparent man of "science," you do realize that concepts can percolate for years only to be popularized by individual such as Miguel, and for that he deserves credit.

Patents are tricky for many reasons. They can become "licenses to steal" if you do not have the recourses for good legal counsel (most of boutique, hi end audio). They can also be a provisional, manipulative foray into a respective field where originality can be predicated on language alone (which to me represents the worst kind of sophistry). I have been there and done during my research years as a medical student. It was a rude baptism.

and

So your idea is to electrically couple electrical transmission via copper wire to or through an unknown ferrous composite that filters EMI/RFI juju? Do you have measurements or a way to substantiate this reduction of EMI/RFI into said system? I am a dumb surgeon so help me out...

As I already said, if you want to talk about our products, be respectful of this thread topic and open a thread in the Shunyata forum. If and when you start a thread you may be taken more seriously if you drop the subtle to not so subtle innuendos. Conduct yourself with courtesy and respect and you will be treated in kind.

And since you have said that you will be purchasing the Troy you may want to direct some of your pointed questions towards how and why it works along with measurements since they seem to have become important to you.

 

[Barry2013]

As I already said, if you want to talk about our products, be respectful of this thread topic and open a thread in the Shunyata forum. If and when you start a thread you may be taken more seriously if you drop the subtle to not so subtle innuendos. Conduct yourself with courtesy and respect and you will be treated in kind.

And since you have said that you will be purchasing the Troy you may want to direct some of your pointed questions towards how and why it works along with measurements since they seem to have become important to you.

+1 Caelin.
Civility precedes knowledge and understanding.

 

[spiritofmusic]

This statement that there would be no grounding w/out Miguel, please show Entreq a little respect. Per Olof has been developing grounding products for several years. If it was really true that Miguel has been the originator only to spawn a whole slew of imitators, just where are they other than Entreq?

 

[strapper211]

Thank You Gear Daddy for the complement.
I am not saying grounding was not known about but now that Tri-point has jumped in the water and created the market other company's are taking advantage of it.
Without Miguel it might have taken much longer if ever to market a grounding device not knowing if the market would respond.
The man had the confidence in his product to do it,no other company can say that.

 

[Elberoth]

A $4000 dollar oscillator wow, do you have a link to the part?
Keith.

Is $4000 shocking you ? You would be even more shocked to learn that there are $12k XOs.

Trinity uses a custom made clock (not only with the relation to clock freq, but also to its design AND features). In regular off the shelf form, that is available for next day delivery, it costs $2000 a piece. Due to Triniti's clock complexity, the price is double that of the regular clock (which even in its stock form would be the most expensive XO used in any audio device - much more expensive than the SRS PRS-10 Rubidium Oscilator used by Esoteric for example) and has 6 months lead time.

 

[Elberoth]

I would very much like a link to the part, $12k xo's crossovers?
Keith.

XO = crystal oscillator ('clock'), not a crossover !

 

[Geardaddy]

As I already said, if you want to talk about our products, be respectful of this thread topic and open a thread in the Shunyata forum. If and when you start a thread you may be taken more seriously if you drop the subtle to not so subtle innuendos. Conduct yourself with courtesy and respect and you will be treated in kind.

And since you have said that you will be purchasing the Troy you may want to direct some of your pointed questions towards how and why it works along with measurements since they seem to have become important to you.

You can read into it what you want Caelin, but they were serious questions and were not meant to be threatening or disrespectful. One could read the same innuendos (and irony) in some of your comments, but I choose not to. Dale Pitcher, whose products I also own, said that you are one of the few "true" geniuses in hi end audio, and thus I expected a serious body of work behind your products. At one point, I called Shunyata in regards to your outlets. The young man who dealt with me was very courteous and professional, and got back to me with a detailed answer (from you). So, I hold Shunyata in high regard.

With that aside, how does one measure EMI/RFI reduction? Spectrum analyzer? I am presuming you have some body of measurements as part of the discovery process that inspired the patent. I "think" you could measure its indirect fruits via the Vertex software and jitter output, but beyond that, I don't know. I have spoken with one manufacturer who has used expensive spectrum analyzers in the past, but he stated that he ends up using his ears (which are probably a much more sophisticated instrument than we realize). Miguel voices everything by ear as far as I know. I used mine to evaluate the effects of his products and thus my interest in purchase.

 

[Geardaddy]

Is $4000 shocking you ? You would be even more shocked to learn that there are $12k XOs.

Trinity uses a custom made clock (not only with the relation to clock freq, but also to its design AND features). In regular off the shelf form, that is available for next day delivery, it costs $2000 a piece. Due to Triniti's clock complexity, the price is double that of the regular clock (which even in its stock form would be the most expensive XO used in any audio device - much more expensive than the SRS PRS-10 Rubidium Oscilator used by Esoteric for example) and has 6 months lead time.

Fair enough Adam. Dietmar has spent an enormous amount of time developing and testing his products as well, and R+D along with labor does factor into price. Tripoint and Trinity are heavily featured at Audioexotics, and those guys are at the lunatic fringe and spare no expense. Most of us in the US are K-mart shoppers by comparison.....

 

[Geardaddy]

Link?
Keith.

So when are you getting the "Universe"????

 

[Elberoth]

Link?
Keith.

Oscilloquartz BVA 8607 OCXO was $12k before it was discontinued a few months back:

http://www.oscilloquartz.com/product-bva-8607-717-114

Oscilloquartz still makes a lot of other, uber-expensive XOs.

 

[TBG]

On the Tripoint

[QUOTE;330296]You can read into it what you want Caelin, but they were serious questions and were not meant to be threatening or disrespectful. One could read the same innuendos (and irony) in some of your comments, but I choose not to. Dale Pitcher, whose products I also own, said that you are one of the few "true" geniuses in hi end audio, and thus I expected a serious body of work behind your products. At one point, I called Shunyata in regards to your outlets. The young man who dealt with me was very courteous and professional, and got back to me with a detailed answer (from you). So, I hold Shunyata in high regard.

With that aside, how does one measure EMI/RFI reduction? Spectrum analyzer? I am presuming you have some body of measurements as part of the discovery process that inspired the patent. I "think" you could measure its indirect fruits via the Vertex software and jitter output, but beyond that, I don't know. I have spoken with one manufacturer who has used expensive spectrum analyzers in the past, but he stated that he ends up using his ears (which are probably a much more sophisticated instrument than we realize). Miguel voices everything by ear as far as I know. I used mine to evaluate the effects of his products and thus my interest in purchase.[/QUOTE]

On Miguel voicing, he was at my home some time ago and we were listening to music when I noticed that one of my Zilplex room tuning devices was not properly situated on its three point holder. With the music playing, I got up and racked it to the 45º angle that is required. Instantly, Miguel said what have you done. He was complaining that I had ruined the imaging. I went back and placed it at about a 25º angle which satisfied Miguel. I thought to myself how regrettable it was to know that the Zilplexes were tunable.

Since I gave this unknown device its first review in Dagogo long ago, I have always wondered how it worked but I also knew that it was proprietary information. My only previous experience to the Troy was having a Granite Audio grounding unit with different resistances to ground. The Troy was far superior

I've had devices like the Entreqs, such as that Acoustic Revive unit that had a modest good impact, but the Tripoint Troy was much superior.

 

[Eli08]

Eli, 100% agree w/you. 20 mins is all it took to convince me to go down the grounding ie Entreq route.
A repeating criticism from one uber skeptical member here is to open the box and let's see what's inside, but never done. And others have made similar requests.
So, here we have the box opened up, to reveal...what? More black box tech. When are those 3 cylinders going to be opened up, if ever? And if they are, what else will be hidden within?
Me? I don't give two hoots. But this photo does nothing to ease the skeptical divide.

I don't understand this thing about opening the box. I mean, don't know what people expected to see inside it. A map? a nuclear engine? What I saw is basically what I expected to see.

But in any case I think that is pointless. For what I care it could be empty if it brought the improvement in brought to my system. And I agree with you: the photo does nothing to ease the skeptical; but not because of the picture itself which I see nothing wrong with it. The skeptical will always be so. At least until they try the device. And if they are skeptical, by definition they have not tried it. Once they try it they are not skeptical anymore. They may like it or not but with first hand experience. And then the thing gets much more interesting for the rest.

My point was along that line. I have not read or heard anyone who has tried it, who was not happy with the Troy. You don't see these things listed second hand.

Price is pointless in this hobby beyond a level. Is all about the value that one gives to the improvement perceived. And if it is worth the price. And that is subjective and a very personal and individual decision. And that is not specific to the troy. Is the same for cables, speakers, conditioners, amps or whatever.