Tripoint troy signature grounding device

[microstrip]

we cannot be afraid of the truth, as it's coming for us whether we like it or not. I believe we have to be open to all possibilities........ (...)

Surely, but it is being suggested in this thread that established generic preferences of format, such as vinyl of tape, can be reversed using the Tripoint devices. Considering that these devices are what technically we can call "a black box" - they seem to work, but no one knows how, what it is inside and how they are built - it is very interesting.

BTW, one of the reasons of my curiosity is that simply grounding all equipment using good quality wires to a DIY ground box did not increase sound quality ...

 

[Audiocrack]

Surely, but it is being suggested in this thread that established generic preferences of format, such as vinyl of tape, can be reversed using the Tripoint devices. Considering that these devices are what technically we can call "a black box" - they seem to work, but no one knows how, what it is inside and how they are built - it is very interesting.

BTW, one of the reasons of my curiosity is that simply grounding all equipment using good quality wires to a DIY ground box did not increase sound quality ...

Well, there is at least one person on this planet who knows perfectly well how these devices work. ?? And yes, the Tripoint boxes are much more than (only) grounding devices. The new Elite technique is very special indeed and goes much further than the wonderful Troy Signature boxes. Just try to listen to a Troy Elite because Miguel is really on to something.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Surely, but it is being suggested in this thread that established generic preferences of format, such as vinyl of tape, can be reversed using the Tripoint devices. Considering that these devices are what technically we can call "a black box" - they seem to work, but no one knows how, what it is inside and how they are built - it is very interesting.

who is suggesting this influence is inherently more to one format? all I read (from Tang) was that an enhancement applied to one source but not another can tip the scales. certainly many things might work this way to some degree and it's not surprising at all. Tang never claimed that grounding would not assist tape.

there are so many degrees of performance within every format that, again, broad brushes are not helpful.

BTW, one of the reasons of my curiosity is that simply grounding all equipment using good quality wires to a DIY ground box did not increase sound quality ...

not surprising. I keep reading about simple approaches being viewed on the same level of these Tripoint or even Entreq boxes but don't see evidence of it at all.

these claims get made in an 'all-knowing' tone (not by you) without any effort to investigate the magic boxes. I can't take these comments seriously.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well, there is at least one person on this planet who knows perfectly well how these devices work. ?? And yes, the Tripoint boxes are much more than (only) grounding devices. The new Elite technique is very special indeed and goes much further than the wonderful Troy Signature boxes. Just try to listen to a Troy Elite because Miguel is really on to something.

++++1.

 

[microstrip]

who is suggesting this influence is inherently more to one format? all I read (from Tang) was that an enhancement applied to one source but not another can tip the scales. certainly many things might work this way to some degree and it's not surprising at all. Tang never claimed that grounding would not assist tape.

there are so many degrees of performance within every format that, again, broad brushes are not helpful. (...)

We read it the same way and it is exactly what I referred and puzzled me.

IMHO not many things might work this way with an already perfected and tuned system. IMHO if this happens just grounding using Tripoint devices this can be either mean that the devices cause a significant and meaningful difference or the real difference between formats is less than we typically consider. You and Tang are writing opinions about auditioning top, very different optimized systems - then the brush becomes slightly broader ...

 

[microstrip]

Well, there is at least one person on this planet who knows perfectly well how these devices work. ?? And yes, the Tripoint boxes are much more than (only) grounding devices. The new Elite technique is very special indeed and goes much further than the wonderful Troy Signature boxes. Just try to listen to a Troy Elite because Miguel is really on to something.

Well, I never heard about him addressing any technical aspect of these boxes - he looks to be a wise man. When high-end manufacturers enter the open technical debate they always get trapped somewhere. And yes, I intend to try these boxes, otherwise I would not be following and posting in this thread.

 

[Audiocrack]

Well, I never heard about him addressing any technical aspect of these boxes - he looks to be a wise man. When high-end manufacturers enter the open technical debate they always get trapped somewhere. And yes, I intend to try these boxes, otherwise I would not be following and posting in this thread.

Please understand that Miguel invested countless hours, more than 20 years of his life and great amounts of money to get where he is right now. He tried and listened to all kind of techniques such as active grounding (the Telos grounding box is using this technique) and 'boxes' like Tang is using that create some kind of noise. He rejected all these techniques after many experiments and countless listening hours. Furthermore please keep in mind that Miguel has an incredible good ear.

People who are complaining about the Tripoint prices have no idea about (i) the huge research & development costs involved, (ii) the expensive and high quality materials that are being employed and (iii) the labour intensive process of building the Tripoint boxes.

After many, many hours talking with Miguel - and although I am a 'non technie' - I have a pretty good idea what is going on but I will never disclose this info out of respect for his work and the trust he put in me.

To me 'grounding' (through Tripoint) is one of the conditio sine qua nons for assembling a great system that is capable of creating impressive sound just like fine/great acoustics, clean power and proper isolation. In my view people should start considering real high quality (Tripoint) 'grounding boxes' as regular - or even: as one of the more important - audio components.

Lastly and as mentioned before, (i) the Tripoint technique involves clearly more than (only) grounding and (ii) I have no doubts whatsoever that you will be seriously impressed by the Troy Elite or the Troy signature.

 

[Tango]

Please understand that Miguel invested countless hours, more than 20 years of his life and great amounts of money to get where he is right now.....People who are complaining about the Tripoint prices have no idea about (i) the huge research & development costs involved, (ii) the expensive and high quality materials that are being employed and (iii) the labour intensive process of building the Tripoint boxes.

If I were him I would do the same. Why telling the recepe. Many companies are actually riding the wave created by Miguel and launching some kind of grounding products now. I also agree with Rudolph that Tripoint is considered one of the main component in my system not just an accessory or tweak.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Please understand that Miguel invested countless hours, more than 20 years of his life and great amounts of money to get where he is right now. He tried and listened to all kind of techniques such as active grounding (the Telos grounding box is using this technique) and 'boxes' like Tang is using that create some kind of noise. He rejected all these techniques after many experiments and countless listening hours. Furthermore please keep in mind that Miguel has an incredible good ear.

People who are complaining about the Tripoint prices have no idea about (i) the huge research & development costs involved, (ii) the expensive and high quality materials that are being employed and (iii) the labour intensive process of building the Tripoint boxes.

After many, many hours talking with Miguel - and although I am a 'non technie' - I have a pretty good idea what is going on but I will never disclose this info out of respect for his work and the trust he put in me.

To me 'grounding' (through Tripoint) is one of the conditio sine qua nons for assembling a great system that is capable of creating impressive sound just like fine/great acoustics, clean power and proper isolation. In my view people should start considering real high quality (Tripoint) 'grounding boxes' as regular - or even: as one of the more important - audio components.

Lastly and as mentioned before, (i) the Tripoint technique involves clearly more than (only) grounding and (ii) I have no doubts whatsoever that you will be seriously impressed by the Troy Elite or the Troy signature.

If I were him I would do the same. Why telling the recepe. Many companies are actually riding the wave created by Miguel and launching some kind of grounding products now. I also agree with Rudolph that Tripoint is considered one of the main component in my system not just an accessory or tweak.

Kind regards,
Tang

thank you Rudolf and Tang.

+1......what they said. there is no alternative to acquiring what these products do.......in my experience.

 

[microstrip]

Please understand that Miguel invested countless hours, more than 20 years of his life and great amounts of money to get where he is right now. He tried and listened to all kind of techniques such as active grounding (the Telos grounding box is using this technique) and 'boxes' like Tang is using that create some kind of noise. He rejected all these techniques after many experiments and countless listening hours. Furthermore please keep in mind that Miguel has an incredible good ear.

People who are complaining about the Tripoint prices have no idea about (i) the huge research & development costs involved, (ii) the expensive and high quality materials that are being employed and (iii) the labour intensive process of building the Tripoint boxes.

After many, many hours talking with Miguel - and although I am a 'non technie' - I have a pretty good idea what is going on but I will never disclose this info out of respect for his work and the trust he put in me.

To me 'grounding' (through Tripoint) is one of the conditio sine qua nons for assembling a great system that is capable of creating impressive sound just like fine/great acoustics, clean power and proper isolation. In my view people should start considering real high quality (Tripoint) 'grounding boxes' as regular - or even: as one of the more important - audio components.

Lastly and as mentioned before, (i) the Tripoint technique involves clearly more than (only) grounding and (ii) I have no doubts whatsoever that you will be seriously impressed by the Troy Elite or the Troy signature.

We can say the same for most high-end products - the target public is small and sales are reduced, resulting in a high price that is mainly due to research and development costs, associated to artisan production and quality control costs.

Nice to see you now write 'grounding' between commas. Grounding has technically a clear meaning, something these boxes do not have.

And yes, most devices claiming similar results and getting great opinions and reviews work by creating noise. It is why I think that some minimal technical explanations are needed, particularly considering the completely erroneous and misleading descriptions we find in this industry marketing literature.

At some point any one with an open mind can ask - should I get a 50k system or a 30K system + a Tripoint? What would be your answer?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

We can say the same for most high-end products - the target public is small and sales are reduced, resulting in a high price that is mainly due to research and development costs, associated to artisan production and quality control costs.

Nice to see you now write 'grounding' between commas. Grounding has technically a clear meaning, something these boxes do not have.

And yes, most devices claiming similar results and getting great opinions and reviews work by creating noise. It is why I think that some minimal technical explanations are needed, particularly considering the completely erroneous and misleading descriptions we find in this industry marketing literature.

At some point any one with an open mind can ask - should I get a 50k system or a 30K system + a Tripoint? What would be your answer?

the most high resolution systems will get the biggest ROI with the Tripoint. but that's no difference than a $15k cartridge or $30k tone arm.

would you put an SAT arm on a VPI Scout?

you might but you would not get the full return on it's capabilities.

this is a common type decision.

maybe the difference is that there would be other higher areas of ROI with a more modestly put together system than the Tripoint. hard to say where the tipping point would be because there is no clear system dollar level correlation with performance level, it's a fluid concept with many shades.

if someone asked my opinion personally about whether they should purchase a Tripoint Elite or Troy Signature, I would ask them if their system is at a point where they have taken it as far as they can within their expectations. if they said they were at or close to that point, then I would say yes, it will take you farther. if they said it's not quite this or that yet, I'd be more hesitant to recommend the Tripoint. maybe other things need attention first.

it's a finishing product tying everything together....in a special way.

so more a matter of point in system evolution than actual dollar investment.....but the price of entry would limit it to higher dollar systems naturally.

 

[Audiocrack]

We can say the same for most high-end products - the target public is small and sales are reduced, resulting in a high price that is mainly due to research and development costs, associated to artisan production and quality control costs.

Nice to see you now write 'grounding' between commas. Grounding has technically a clear meaning, something these boxes do not have.

And yes, most devices claiming similar results and getting great opinions and reviews work by creating noise. It is why I think that some minimal technical explanations are needed, particularly considering the completely erroneous and misleading descriptions we find in this industry marketing literature.

At some point any one with an open mind can ask - should I get a 50k system or a 30K system + a Tripoint? What would be your answer?

I might see things somewhat differently than Mike, although I am far from sure if there is one clear answer to your (difficult) question, Micro. I am telling you no news when I conclude that in an audio system everything matters and that all components are important. And when something is wrong with the source components, nothing will really help. Miguel always says to me: garbage in, garbage out.

That said, the interesting thing is that when you plug in the Troy Elite in your audio powerstrip without connecting any audio component to the Troy Elite through a grounding cable, the audio system will already sound significantly better. (Not sure btw if Mike tried this out). So what I am saying is the following: all audio components will benefit in a significant way by just plugging in the Troy elite. So with a pretty good system adding the Troy Elite might be - dare I say it? - one of the most effective updates. But as mentioned before, this is one tough question you asked us.

 

[Jazzhead]

I might see things somewhat differently than Mike, although I am far from sure if there is one clear answer to your (difficult) question, Micro. I am telling you no news when I conclude that in an audio system everything matters and that all components are important. And when something is wrong with the source components, nothing will really help. Miguel always says to me: garbage in, garbage out.

That said, the interesting thing is that when you plug in the Troy Elite in your audio powerstrip without connecting any audio component to the Troy Elite through a grounding cable, the audio system will already sound significantly better. (Not sure btw if Mike tried this out). So what I am saying is the following: all audio components will benefit in a significant way by just plugging in the Troy elite. So with a pretty good system adding the Troy Elite might be - dare I say it? - one of the most effective updates. But as mentioned before, this is one tough question you asked us.

Hi AC, have you got the Elite now to go along with the Emperor ? Any comparative notes would be interesting .

 

[Audiocrack]

Hi AC, have you got the Elite now to go along with the Emperor ? Any comparative notes would be interesting .

Hello Arshad, give me a few weeks and then I will answer your question, okay? Quite a lot is actually going on my (La Assoluta) side.

 

[Lee]

FYI: my colleague at Part-Time Audiophile, Rafe Arnott, just received some Troy gear to review.

 

[Tango]

At some point any one with an open mind can ask - should I get a 50k system or a 30K system + a Tripoint? What would be your answer?

Dear Micro,

My answer to this question would be if the owner of a system "is already very happy" with the sound he is receiving from the system even after having listened comparatively to other bigger systems and he /she still "wants to go further", then yes get a Tripoint.
What I see common in Tripoint owners is the fact that they normally were "already happy" with the sound of their system, then they add Tripoint as additional component.

I am sure you are already happy with your sound, you should pull a trigger too . (I am a fertilizer and crop protection products distributor but now I sound like a Tripoint rep..haha)


Kind regards,
Tang

 

[microstrip]

Dear Micro,

My answer to this question would be if the owner of a system "is already very happy" with the sound he is receiving from the system even after having listened comparatively to other bigger systems and he /she still "wants to go further", then yes get a Tripoint.
What I see common in Tripoint owners is the fact that they normally were "already happy" with the sound of their system, then they add Tripoint as additional component.

I am sure you are already happy with your sound, you should pull a trigger too . (I am a fertilizer and crop protection products distributor but now I sound like a Tripoint rep..haha)


Kind regards,
Tang

Dear Tang,

Although I change relatively often and love trying new gear, I try apply to my system the sentence said by De Niro in the Ronin movie before entering the Parisian cafe in the opening scenes "Lady, I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of."

It is why I need to know as much as possible about the Tripoint products before going the Tripoint "gounding" way. I still have a lot of doubts concerning the selection and application of the different items, and the relative effects of each. I can not even find a complete price list. Looking around systems using the Tripoint products I can not see a methodology in its use, I see some anarchic behavior, even mixing Tripoint with other "grounding" devices of other brands, working on apparently different principles.

So, I will go on asking Tripoint users facts to feed my future decision. I am sending my Opus cables to Transparent Audio for re-calibration soon, I will not try to listen to the Troy until I get them back.

 

[Tango]

.."Lady, I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of."

It is why I need to know as much as possible about the Tripoint products before going the Tripoint "gounding" way. I still have a lot of doubts concerning the selection and application of the different items, and the relative effects of each. I can not even find a complete price list. Looking around systems using the Tripoint products I can not see a methodology in its use, I see some anarchic behavior, even mixing Tripoint with other "grounding" devices of other brands, working on apparently different principles.

So, I will go on asking Tripoint users facts to feed my future decision. .

Hi micro,

That's a great movie.

You know I am going to mix the use of Tripoint with the Schnerzinger devices. I am not the first. Some heavyweights in HK did it way before me. Dont let this make you even more skeptical in how to use Tripoint. I will tell you exactly what went on with me in choosing to mix.

I was and still am very happy with Tripoint. In fact I was thinking to upgrade to Elite when it was premiering in the AE show a few months ago. But being in the group of firstmovers is always financially risky so this time I backed myself from being one of the bravehearts .

Then, it just so happened, (really by chance I didnt even have interest in it but kept myself open to new things), Michael of Zellaton came to my place and did the demo of the Schenerzinger. I have "my own perception" of ultimate sound and, I admit, there is this small gap between where my system is standing and there. In the demo, what I heard was real and tangible to my ears. and it coincidentally "filled up" a gap I thought my system had. I had a specific target of what I want to achieve and not doing just for the sake of improvement. If the Elite only does more or much more in the area that Troy and Empress are already doing, then its not going to fill up this gap for me. This is exactly why I mix the products from two camps. And I would not have ordered the Schnerzenger devices if I had not tried them in my system.

As of now I dont have the Schnerzinger in my system. It takes four months to get the products. Hopefully, when they come and I play around with them a little, I will be able to say more and tell you exactly with full confident how it differs from Tripoint.

Rudolph and Mike are really tempting me with the Elite though . Lets see where destiny takes me.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[spiritofmusic]

Tang, are you able to inform us on how many of these Schnerzingers you are using, and how much each is/package amounts to.
Before I get criticised for derailing the thread with anti sentiment, price has to be the first determinant as to whether ANY product can be considered in one's system.
I can't afford Troy Elite/Master Ref grnds in my system, but curious if these are more affordable.

 

[Tango]

Tang, are you able to inform us on how many of these Schnerzingers you are using, and how much each is/package amounts to.
Before I get criticised for derailing the thread with anti sentiment, price has to be the first determinant as to whether ANY product can be considered in one's system.
I can't afford Troy Elite/Master Ref grnds in my system, but curious if these are more affordable.

Dear spirit,

I demoed one grid protector and 3 piccolos in my system, but I ended up ordering one grid protector and 6 piccolos because Michael recommended 6 for my room.

I cannot give details in pricing. I can only say the set I ordered is much less than the price of an Elite.

But really Spirit, you can start with just a Troy and still going to get a good feeling of what Audiocrack and Mike and other users talked about.

Kind regards,
Tang