So more or less they are devices that trap noise created by electromagnetic fields. The star ground system creates a pathway for this back to earth ground. Two different methods that accomplish the same result.
Tripoint troy signature grounding device
- Thread starter Audiocrack
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My [rudimentary] understanding is that there is a lot of benefit from sticking a great big old copper post in the lawn and drawing the entire system out to it. But for those of us who live in apartments, with a central electrical conduit with only separate metering...this is as good as we're gonna get to that kind of true earth grounding. Supposedly these things also level out the impedance differences across the different components? That is what i was told by the distributor...also when i mentioned to Zanden what i was doing, that was their understanding as well, and they felt that it would have merit as an approach.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Lloyd
I agree that the benefits for some such as yourself and others living in apts are far greater than others who have a separate subpanel for just their listening room with many dedicated lines. I bet in cases such as yours the effect when you did isolation and grounding must have been jaw dropping
Hi Steve, Thank you for weighing in here. Yes, I think your observations are spot on about apartment living, particularly in dense urban areas. And yes, the differences with HRS/Stillpoints and Tripoint grounding have been absolutely stunning...a 2-month project...and a real treat to feel like I know what my system really sounds like, or I might even dare say, I know a lot more about what my music collection truly sounds like.
I was under the impression that these external grounding systems did more- that they addressed inter-component grounding issues that went beyond simply having a good electrical connection/dedicated lines, etc.
That's why I was curious to know what they would add to a system like Mike L's, which already benefits from separate electrical feed, isolation transformer, balanced power, etc.
The simple experiments I did, with separate subpanel/dedicated lines, helped address some noise problems i had with super high efficiency horns (which made the noise level of the electronics very noticeable), but I can't say it was jaw dropping. Then again I wasn't using anything fancy for external grounding.
Some one with more technical expertise might be able to explain why the grounding set-ups in each separate component interact with each other in ways that are detrimental.
That's why I was curious to know what they would add to a system like Mike L's, which already benefits from separate electrical feed, isolation transformer, balanced power, etc.
The simple experiments I did, with separate subpanel/dedicated lines, helped address some noise problems i had with super high efficiency horns (which made the noise level of the electronics very noticeable), but I can't say it was jaw dropping. Then again I wasn't using anything fancy for external grounding.
Some one with more technical expertise might be able to explain why the grounding set-ups in each separate component interact with each other in ways that are detrimental.
Bill-The great thing that star grounding does is bring all components to the same ground potential. If you have several components that aren't at the same ground potential, it can cause noise issues. I think that having multiple components in a system that are at different ground potentials is the cause of the interaction that you are questioning. The cheap way out of this is to buy a chunk of copper and have someone drill and tap holes in it so you can run screws in it. Then just thread some screws into the holes and connect ground wires from each of your components made from #10 gauge wire with spade lugs on each end, hook a wire from the copper bar to the center screw of one of your electrical outlets and Jed's a millionaire. It might not look as pretty as multi-kilo buck fancy boxes, but it is very effective.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Simply put it could simply be explained that Lloyd has a far more polluted pool of AC coming into his apt which has 2-3 circuits on one breaker whereas you and I have 12-15 dedicated AC lines each on their own breaker for just our sound room
A noise free system is absolutely stunning,no two ways about it. You add to that a ultra low distortion high resolution system and your jaw gets nailed to the floor. I have talked about this here and there for over 3 years. Every component depending on the internal grounding scheme can benefit from noise removal by some grounding method. When you come down to it music at this level is pretty special,most don't think this level is attainable but it is. Enjoy and all paths lead to Rome.
Like Lloyd, I think, I live in an apartment block. I'm in a semi industrial area with light engineering adjacent, and broadband on in every work/live apartment around me, seemingly 24/7. Additionally for my woes there are internet booster stations/aerials nearby.
I'm convinced this is causing a hash or miasma that was polluting my system almost fatally. This I know in that when I switch away my system from my dedicated spur and back into the standard domestic supply, the amount of grunge I can hear is palpable.
So my initial move to Burmester conditioner was instructional, then spur/balanced transformer was a giant leap better. Now, Entreq grounding is almost miraculous in it's effects, and I'm convinced it's an extra barrier to allowing hash to recirculate around my system, acting as a conduit out to a neutral source.
I just can't see how I could achieve the same result on the 2nd floor in a built up area without this gear. My final expenditure is going to be in the region of £15k/$25k, to incorporate dedicated consumer unit+radial mains+dedicated sockets+SOTA balanced transformer+Entreq Silver Tellus/Atlantis add on/5 Atlantis ground leads, which is easily what I could spend on a single component. Pricey, yes, but cost effective and worth it's weight in gold as it weaves it's magic on the whole system, not just one piece of gear. I really do believe that a new amp or pair of spkrs, no matter if I spent 3x this price, would NOT give me the same extent of benefit. Anywhere near. I'm that impressed.
I'm convinced this is causing a hash or miasma that was polluting my system almost fatally. This I know in that when I switch away my system from my dedicated spur and back into the standard domestic supply, the amount of grunge I can hear is palpable.
So my initial move to Burmester conditioner was instructional, then spur/balanced transformer was a giant leap better. Now, Entreq grounding is almost miraculous in it's effects, and I'm convinced it's an extra barrier to allowing hash to recirculate around my system, acting as a conduit out to a neutral source.
I just can't see how I could achieve the same result on the 2nd floor in a built up area without this gear. My final expenditure is going to be in the region of £15k/$25k, to incorporate dedicated consumer unit+radial mains+dedicated sockets+SOTA balanced transformer+Entreq Silver Tellus/Atlantis add on/5 Atlantis ground leads, which is easily what I could spend on a single component. Pricey, yes, but cost effective and worth it's weight in gold as it weaves it's magic on the whole system, not just one piece of gear. I really do believe that a new amp or pair of spkrs, no matter if I spent 3x this price, would NOT give me the same extent of benefit. Anywhere near. I'm that impressed.
Thanks gents...becoming a bit clearer in my mind. Does this mean if I connect more components in my system that I might continue to lower noise throughout the system? Right now, amp is straight into wall, while everything else is thru the power conditioner. So the Tripoint is plugged into power conditioner (although again it draws no power...only ground prong is engaged)...and individual wires connect 3 of the Zanden boxes and the preamp.
I would connect to the amp...but cannot yet find a grounding screw... So curious to know if I find one on the amp and connect it to Tripoint...does that lower noise potentially?
The reason I ask is that, (although when we tried our failed DIY grounding we did try to connect everything), the Entreq dealer did NOT recommend this when using Entreq. He actually said sometimes it was better to connect to only 2 components. I did not really understand this...but given that they would be financially incentivized to keep selling me more and more grounding wires, I took them at their word they were being honest and appreciated it.
Thanks for any guidance on this.
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And I might speculate that for those who have the most rigorous and dedicated electrical supplies to their audio room, such as some people on this thread, would hear a far greater improvement with the Troy than those living in apartments. The thing about the Troy is that the better your system and the foundation it is based upon, the better it sounds. While the price is high, I have determined that it is very reasonable for the improvement and musical satisfaction it provides. I would love to hear the reaction if Steve or Mike dropped one of these into their system. This is not simply a star grounding scheme. Ask anyone who has one. Maybe someone who is skeptical should see if they could have a unit sent for demo.
From the person who started this thread and who experiences the benefits of the Troy se weekly in a high end system that had been worked on for many years and was pretty much tweaked out (or so I thought) one final remark: somehow I get the feeling some people just do not want to believe that the Troy does something very special, also or maybe especially in top notch systems such as eg in Asia with dedicated lines etc. If that is indeed the case (and I hope not), that is a real pity ( for them). To all audiophiles with an open mind I would say: try the tripoint se out. I am pretty sure you will be in for a very pleasant surprise as you will experience your system as you have never heard it before.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Just to add a little spanner in the works, the Entreq rep says that their gear and Tripoint's work on different aspects of grounding. Silver Tellus/Atlantis, by plugging into spare outputs on components, works to ground at the plane of the electronic/musical signal, whereas Troy attaching ground leads to the equipment screws instead works at the plane of the chassis/electronics. Apparently in Asia, a fair number of audiophiles are running Entreq AND Troy together in their systems. Some serious overkill there, but obv these listeners are convinced they're getting something different from each technology.
I've found significant cumulative impvts starting with a single lead from my preamp, then adding to Straingauge cart energiser, cdp, and now monoblocks, 5 in total. I would have struggled finding grounding screws on all 5 pieces had I decided on Troy. Another reason, other than cost and availability that I've gone down the Entreq rather than Troy route.
I've found significant cumulative impvts starting with a single lead from my preamp, then adding to Straingauge cart energiser, cdp, and now monoblocks, 5 in total. I would have struggled finding grounding screws on all 5 pieces had I decided on Troy. Another reason, other than cost and availability that I've gone down the Entreq rather than Troy route.
To add to that, I have connected 3 boxes via grounding screws to Troy...but hooked my CJ GAT up to my Troy via an RCA input terminal. Mainly because I could not unscrew the grounding screw for some reason. Anyway, Tripoint said this was basically grounding the signal, which as Spiritofmusic points out is how Entreq setup their grounding cables (mainly RCA terminated on one end).
I have 0 idea what that all means. All i know is when I held the grounding cable to the CJ grounding screw, it made less difference than touching the grounding cable to the CJ RCA inlet. No understanding here...just observations. I was not expecting to find a difference AT ALL...I was literally just trying to find a way to attach the grounding cable without having to stand there all day and hold it to the grounding screw!
I have 0 idea what that all means. All i know is when I held the grounding cable to the CJ grounding screw, it made less difference than touching the grounding cable to the CJ RCA inlet. No understanding here...just observations. I was not expecting to find a difference AT ALL...I was literally just trying to find a way to attach the grounding cable without having to stand there all day and hold it to the grounding screw!
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
A few questions.....
It seems there are 3 different types of grounding cables (Thor, Master reference silver, and signature silver).
How long is this cable, what are the differences between the three cables, where does this cable attach and how much are the 3 cables
I gather each of the 3 binding posts can accommodate up to 3 devices. To ground 9 devices will one need 9 Thor grounding cables
It seems there are 3 different types of grounding cables (Thor, Master reference silver, and signature silver).
How long is this cable, what are the differences between the three cables, where does this cable attach and how much are the 3 cables
I gather each of the 3 binding posts can accommodate up to 3 devices. To ground 9 devices will one need 9 Thor grounding cables
Hi Steve,
Happy to help where I can.
Yes, 9 units works (3 per binding post)
Yes, 9 components means 9 grounding cables. The unit comes with 4. (FWIW, I would hardly guess that 'only 4' is insufficient. Your system being so discerning, I cannot say...but if the Troy works for you, my instinct says 4 should then already be able to show you what it can do.)
As for the different levels, I have not A/B'd the Tripoint grounding cables...I have only the 'standard' ones. However, I HAVE A/B'd the Entreq standard grounding cable (aka Apollo cable) vs their reference grounding cable (aka Atlantis cable). And there was a BIG difference. I only changed one of the Apollos for the Atlantis, and I felt there was a significantly greater improvement than keeping all Apollo cables, and adding a second Atlantis grounding box to the standard Silver Tellus Box (apparently the Atlantis box effectively doubles the amounting of grounding material you've got).
I have read posts from owners of Tripoint's standard grounding cables who have since upgraded and been very impressed. At the moment, I am allowing the Tripoint Troy SE settle in...but if were to add one grounding cable, i would get a Thor grounding cable for the preamp as advised by the manufacturer and dealer. But again, i am allowing the Troy SE to settle in over the next couple of weeks first.
Hope that helps. Ask away.
oh...and on length, the four standard cables that come with the unit are: (1) 3.0 meter, (2) 2.0 meter and (1) 1.5 meter. For me, that was quite a lot of length and it works well. The good thing is the Troy SE is heavily shielded so less concern about placing it near equipment i am told.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Thanks Lloyd
so the unit comes with 4 grounding cables which I gather must be the Signature silver
How long are the grounding cables and how much are they to buy new ones? I ask as I noticed Robert has both his front and back end components grounded. With my front end gear off to the side I would think it would take a long cable(s) to ground both my front and back end gear.
so the unit comes with 4 grounding cables which I gather must be the Signature silver
How long are the grounding cables and how much are they to buy new ones? I ask as I noticed Robert has both his front and back end components grounded. With my front end gear off to the side I would think it would take a long cable(s) to ground both my front and back end gear.
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