No.. Both had their reputation and means of livelihood tarnished and threatened. One, Jonathan Wilma, fought and won. The other did desist.
US Anti-Doping Agency charges Armstrong
- Thread starter steve williams
- Start date
No.. Both had their reputation and means of livelihood tarnished and threatened. One, Jonathan Wilma, fought and won. The other did desist.
Actually I think it was the NFLPA that brought the suit, not Vilma. Vilma's case is still pending.
AFAIK, the NFL players won on a technicality just like Ryan Braun did.
I've never been a licnesed racer. I trained a Cat IV racer. He was good. I know because he was better than me.We trianed every day often after dusk and pre dawn. He was racing to feed his famly.My goal was to make race day seem like a day off. If he won the race and all the premiums he could maybe take home $200-300. Maybe $500 if we sold the wheels and accessories that were awarded for lap vicitories. We did not have a team.
I can't say for sure he was not doping. He could not afford it. I know I was not and he was not that much better than I.He was so dominant because the riders were lazy and the races always came down to a 15 second sprint. There were plenty of ringers in the race who were sure thye would win. They would threaten us and the race orgnizers tried to ban him. I would bluff and threaten to file a law suit the next day. They always backed down.
Finally we went to a race that was so large they had to break the Cat IV race in half. He entered both races and won them both. They permanently banned him from CAT IV because of the protests.
He always had to win by a a lrage margin. Photo finshes always went to the local riders with ties to the organizers.
If they'll do that for small potatoes you know what they'll do for a major race. But you still have to prove it.
I can't say for sure he was not doping. He could not afford it. I know I was not and he was not that much better than I.He was so dominant because the riders were lazy and the races always came down to a 15 second sprint. There were plenty of ringers in the race who were sure thye would win. They would threaten us and the race orgnizers tried to ban him. I would bluff and threaten to file a law suit the next day. They always backed down.
Finally we went to a race that was so large they had to break the Cat IV race in half. He entered both races and won them both. They permanently banned him from CAT IV because of the protests.
He always had to win by a a lrage margin. Photo finshes always went to the local riders with ties to the organizers.
If they'll do that for small potatoes you know what they'll do for a major race. But you still have to prove it.
http://www.usada.org/cyclinginvestigationstatement.html
I have always admired Lance Armstrong and I have also been on TdF following him live. I am a serious amateur cyclist (for 20 years and long ago I was also a bike messenger for 1 year). I have always stood up for him; defending him. But read the link above...I doesnt look good :-(
I have always admired Lance Armstrong and I have also been on TdF following him live. I am a serious amateur cyclist (for 20 years and long ago I was also a bike messenger for 1 year). I have always stood up for him; defending him. But read the link above...I doesnt look good :-(
Where is the hard evidence other than hearsay by disgruntled team mates, associates ? Show me one tainted sample of Lance's blood...they have none. I highly doubt the Tour De France will strip him of his titles.
---Great way to build a future for our kids! 
But this just don't happens here, it happens in every segment of our society.
...In various forms of corruption, lies and deceipts.
Money, for many (most) people, is the evil itself!
...And till things don't change in the heart and soul of men and women, this world ain't getting any better.
_____________________
* It ain't a question of believing this or that; just use common sense.
It ain't science or humanity, it is the force that animates us.
But this just don't happens here, it happens in every segment of our society.
...In various forms of corruption, lies and deceipts.
Money, for many (most) people, is the evil itself!
...And till things don't change in the heart and soul of men and women, this world ain't getting any better.
_____________________
* It ain't a question of believing this or that; just use common sense.
It ain't science or humanity, it is the force that animates us.
Master Chief...let's see where it goes. If he was cheating, so was everyone else for that matter. Who get's the title then ? This whole thing should be put to rest. There is no good outcome either way as it pertains to the past Tours.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/109619079/Reasoned-Decision
I dont have time to read it now. I sincerely hope it is full of crap.
I dont have time to read it now. I sincerely hope it is full of crap.
You, pull no punches ...
I must say that I find Armstrong lack of response damning ...
I'm curious about the "sworn testimony" aspect. The USADA is not a government agency, so I wonder what power they have to swear-in a "witness". If this were a court of law it would be different, but I'm not sure how a "for profit" private agency can gather sworn testimony. Just my layman's perspective. . .
Possibly a stupid question...but it occurs to me that Armstrong potentially faces legal jeopardy for fraud, i.e. presenting himself as this amazing story to advertisers and to the organizers and donors of the Live Strong Foundation. Any thoughts?
---...And this is just what is being said; a lot of stuff is still kept secret.
* The things that we know are traumatizing; just imagine the things that we don't know!
* The things that we know are traumatizing; just imagine the things that we don't know!
Then you must not be involved in the sport much, they keep tabs on the riders , why do you think so many have been caught over the years , Armstrong has never tested positive for an illegal or banned substance , guess who has , his detractors ...
LA , did respond and has fought this for 12+yrs , tested tons of time and never once was found positive for illegal banned substance, for LA to continue and contest this , would require him to go through the courts , which is exactly what they want him to do , this is where past legal becomes illegal and then a perjury charge ...
Jail time .., ask Marion Jones !!!
What a country, corrupt on the dole public criminals, attempting to make successful individuals criminals, i guess Spain , France ,Belgium and Germany are next , yep , they are gong to tear down and investigate their sporting heroes..
Armstrong story is amazing , by any standard ...This is political , follow the money trail ....
Genrally speaking a notary public can administer an oath. Perjury prosecutions are rare for obvious reasons.
greg
Let me say this:Legally length of supporting documents and number of witnesses are not significant factors in determining guilt. Promise of immunity is a significant challenge to credibiltiy of a wintness.
While it is possible that Lance Armstrong "beat" 500 drug tests it is the burden of the accuser to prove what drug was taken and how the test was defeated.
The absence of a positive drug test is not necessarily a bar to prosecution, the presence of negative result is accepted as proof that a drug has not been used.
It remains hypocritical and a double standard to suggest that drug usage can be established by any reliable means but can only be refuted by a negative test.
I dealt with drug testing for over twenty-five years. I recall destroying the governments expert on "water-loading." The judge refused to give me the victory. His rational was it would destroy the integrity of the program. As a side note the director of the program smiled at me everytime he saw me after that. We became good friends.
Greg.
While it is possible that Lance Armstrong "beat" 500 drug tests it is the burden of the accuser to prove what drug was taken and how the test was defeated.
The absence of a positive drug test is not necessarily a bar to prosecution, the presence of negative result is accepted as proof that a drug has not been used.
It remains hypocritical and a double standard to suggest that drug usage can be established by any reliable means but can only be refuted by a negative test.
I dealt with drug testing for over twenty-five years. I recall destroying the governments expert on "water-loading." The judge refused to give me the victory. His rational was it would destroy the integrity of the program. As a side note the director of the program smiled at me everytime he saw me after that. We became good friends.
Greg.
At the London Olympics, I remember seeing a young Chinese swimmer essentially blast past the field and win the gold in almost unprecedented time. For some unknown reason, whenever I am witness to these kinds of achievements, my "suspicious" meter goes off. Same thing happened with Lance Armstrong...comes from basically nowhere in the cycling world and sets the Tour de France on its ear...
One thing I do know for sure..IF Lance was doping ( and it sure seems like he was), he was doing one hell of a good job of it..just like the little girl from China.
One thing I do know for sure..IF Lance was doping ( and it sure seems like he was), he was doing one hell of a good job of it..just like the little girl from China.
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