US Anti-Doping Agency charges Armstrong

---Maybe it was a "legitimate" banned substance?

It's here that I start to have trouble with the attitudes of both the anti-doping authorities and the participants in cycing's racing world.
First, I think the most important thing in athletic competitions is the "level playing field".
Second (and here's where things get really sticky), it would be nice if the health risk to the participant were minimized.

The most commonly used banned drugs in cycling are physiologic substances, and the amounts found in "doping" riders are often within medically accepted normal ranges. Thus the "detection" often depends upon asserting that the amounts found in a given individual don't correspond with past results from that same individual, or that they don't correspond with the end (physiologic) result of the substance's activity (e.g., too high a level of EPO for the patient's red cell volume). Most authorities outside of the USADA would say that we don't know enough about the effects of modern training techniques to be able to make those determinations for certain.

There is clearly a health risk during athletic competitions even when no performance enhancers of any kind are used. That's probably increased by using the performance enhancers (higher hematocrit, higher testosterone, etc.), but quantifying that is difficult.

As has been pointed out on numerous occasions, many medications or supplements used routinely by non-Olympic caliber athletes or non-athletes to improve their health and/or extend their lives are banned in elite athletic competitions.

I don't really know the answers to the questions that can be generated from what I just posted, but I do know that neither side (anti-doping authorities or competitors) appears to be wholly right or wholly wrong.
 
---Maybe it was a "legitimate" banned substance?

Maybe the USADA is under "severe" stress?

Maybe Armstrong is happy and fulfilled enough with his role in raising a substantial amount of money for cancer research?

Maybe the world will end on December 21st 2012?

Maybe someone has it all wrong?

Yeah, you left out one , " Maybe tubes dont sound better than SS" ..... :)
 
---In reply to rbbert, from post #141

Me neither, I'm not an expert on what drugs are permitted or not, their side effects for athletes, the way they are detected in the body, the expertises of the health doctors, and all that training jazz ...

I just think that with time the medical techniques and drug tests to determine their ingestion will be more efficient.
...And that the techniques to hide them won't be an issue anymore. ...But my hope is realistic and I don't see a perfection anytime soon.

I'm with you about natural supplements to support our energies; but again I'm no expert, and expert doctors know best.

It's not easy, this situation, but it sure is sad though. ....There must be some common ground from all the bodies involved in our ways of sports. But with big dollar signs at the top, it is extremely difficult to have a fair playing field; if you know what I mean.

The true inspiration for me, are the people who are 100% clean. ...Money, Fame, Awards, Trophies, or not.
Those people are the ones who set the true and honest example; for the real love of sport and competition.

Anything else in my book is just cheap whiskey. ...Lamborghini or not! ...Voila my opinion. :b
 
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Yeah, you left out one , " Maybe tubes dont sound better than SS" ..... :)

-----Perhaps it'll comes a time when our audio components will be subject to internal scrutiny as to determine or not the beneficial value of the internal parts' values. ...Does it affect the sound in a non-natural way? Does it go over the boundaries of decency (balanced audio)? Does it boost the Lows? ...The Mids? ...And all that et cetera jazz ....

But this is entirely the subject of another thread as we are now bifurcating from our main 'sportive' attraction; cycling & doping. :b
 
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I came here ready to make some announcements that may be untrue. I heard that he would not be stripped of his titles. The following is true. The TdF still his samples of his blood should the technolgy advance to either inculpate or exculpate him. If he is smart he also kept samples.
Let me say this. In a three to four week race that is often won by less than a minute. Everythibg counts. The slightest miscaculation can result in defeat. Consdier Greg Lemond and Laurent Fignon(R.I.P.).
Lance Armstrong took over 500 tests. He never tested positive for a banned substance or masking agent. In any event abnomalities in testing are always construed in favor of the test taker. The ten eyewitnesses appear to be eyewitnessesto different events.
Lastly let me say that everyone knew Lance took EPO and Steroids as part of cancer treatment. He was cleared to race anyway . That's not his fault. No one would consider that cheating.

Arbitration would mean Lance would have to testify under oath. This would perfect the perjury trap. The perjury trap is an ugly tool used by prosecutors when they don't have any evidence. I would have advised him tio avoid it.
 
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Agree LA did the right thing by stepping away, a pity Marion Jones never took the same steps and also missing is the prosecution of the drug Co and there Oligarchs ..

Fascism is alive and well in the good ole USA ..... :(
 
So I wonder what explanations will be acceptable when the majority of endurance athletes begin spending one month out of three at altitude?
 
So I wonder what explanations will be acceptable when the majority of endurance athletes begin spending one month out of three at altitude?

I think a majority do train at altitude (interestingly their performance decreases there but recovers when returning to sea level or thereabouts) or they even have these "hypoxic" tents that they sleep in.
 
I think a majority do train at altitude (interestingly their performance decreases there but recovers when returning to sea level or thereabouts) or they even have these "hypoxic" tents that they sleep in.

The effect of the hypox tents is much less than training at altitude, of course. Training and living at a significant altitude (10,000 ft or more) for one month out of three will essentially equal the effect of EPO, although it is much less practical. So how does this "passport" allow for that possibility?

"upheld in court" means very little in a scientific sense, given the amount of junk science that has been "upheld in court". But then this whole issue is obviously about more than science...
 
"upheld in court" means very little in a scientific sense, given the amount of junk science that has been "upheld in court". But then this whole issue is obviously about more than science...

Amen brother. The question is which is paramont? DNA or eyewitness testimony?
 
I think a majority do train at altitude (interestingly their performance decreases there but recovers when returning to sea level or thereabouts) or they even have these "hypoxic" tents that they sleep in.

I know the Kenyan marathon runners do this.
 
I am still chercking and there is no indication that The TdF has stripped Lance Armstrong of his titles.
 
I know the Kenyan marathon runners do this.

Americans train in CO, others in Mexico city (though with the pollution nowadays don't how many go there?), etc.
 
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Americans train in CO, others in Mexico city (though with the pollution nowadays don't how many go there?), etc.

Need to go higher if no EPO is used...
 

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