US Anti-Doping Agency charges Armstrong

They'll probably be like Andy Petitte and say they are 50% sure he did it!!

And 50% sure they and every other rider used PEDs.
 
These people need to move on. He won fair and square, imo.

Bottom line is that if they had any "hard" evidence, they wouldn't have to do this crap. It'll end up just like Bonds and Clemens, he said, they said. And a colossal waste of money that would be better spent on our athlete's training IMHO!
 
These people need to move on. He won fair and square, imo.

Likely because every other rider of any consequence was a user.

The Tour is one of the most gruelling, if not the most gruelling, sporting events on the planet and you don't win it 7 consecutive times on talent/athletisism alone. Please!
 
Likely because every other rider of any consequence was a user.

The Tour is one of the most gruelling, if not the most gruelling, sporting events on the planet and you don't win it 7 consecutive times on talent/athletisism alone. Please!

So you're saying Armstrong had better pharmacy support? :D

He competed on a level playing field and deserves his championships. He certainly does not deserve this witch hunt.
 
The anti-doping agency is suffering from deep paranoia. The argument has shifted from, you tested positive, to your present physical condition could not be achieved by natural means.

You can never be sure but my limited knowledge of cycling indicates Armstrong was a gifted rider who used every tool in the box. I just hope EPO and testosterone were not in the box. The effects are dramatic and you have no hope of prevailing over a competitor who is using them.
 
---Perhaps it would be too scary; they all would look like monsters on steroids on their bicycles.

No, enhanced drugs, any type of fake hormones, unnatural substances have no place in natural sports. Methinks. ...Is that what we want from our children? ...Boost them with drugs?

If you want FAKE, fabricated, go to those wrestling sports. That's for entertainment, and money.

But keep them separated from what should be fair, pure, natural, smart, and in true spirit of the human body & mind.
 
...
No, enhanced drugs, any type of fake hormones, unnatural substances have no place in natural sports. Methinks. ...Is that what we want from our children? ...Boost them with drugs?

If you want FAKE, fabricated, go to those wrestling sports. That's for entertainment, and money.

But keep them separated from what should be fair, pure, natural, smart, and in true spirit of the human body & mind.

I'm pretty sure Armstrong is being accused of using 100% natural substances present in all of us, i.e. his own packed red blood cells, and maybe erythropoetin.
 
---Yes, but by natural means of self-administering them?

I see what you mean, as I took Royal Jelly (pure natural queen bee natural supplement)
myself for quasi thirty years. ...And capsules of Red & White Ginseng.

If indeed that's what it is (similar), then it's OK in my book. And he should be exhonorated.
...Pure & simple.

P.S. I spent a lot of money in experimenting with the best energy supplement in my type of work back then (treeplanting, or reforestation). And at the end I was buying only the best Royal Jelly (very expensive); but worth it for me as I was making very good money in working very hard (physically and psychologically). ...From $300 to $600 a day.

_______________________

When you compete physically and make something like few millions a year (up to 10, 20, $80 millions a year), you are willing to go where nobody else dare to go.
* Tom Cruise made $75 millions last year, just alone!
And Tom Cruise get more money because he usually do his own stunts.

Football players, Tennis players, Basketball players, Golf players, Baseball players, Hockey players, etc.; few of them are boosting themselves one way or the other.

Weight lifting olympians, boxers, sprinters, swimmers, jumpers, and all the sports and disciplines that require great physical strength, and has big dollars at the end if you are one of the top champions, create unnatural incentives.
And that kills the basic foundation of fair game.

What's more important: teach our children the tricks of deception through unfair use of drug substances (illegal as determined by a committee, an association of smart & fair people), or fair use of your body and mind as in its natural state through fair practices and exercises?

I don't know 'bout Armstrong myself in particular; but if he is in that situation right now it's because someone, something brought him there.
 
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But both are specifically prohibited by all international sports anti-doping agencies, although I can't remember specifically when each of those became so (not until after they were in widespread use, for sure).
 
I'm pretty sure Armstrong is being accused of using 100% natural substances present in all of us, i.e. his own packed red blood cells, and maybe erythropoetin.

Yes and most likely also testosterone.

As far as the drugs being "natural," that's total conjecture and can't be proven :) One can just as easily assemble another list of stuff that isn't. You can't tell me he wasn't using say THG (of which there was no test until recently) or another equally undetectable steroid, HCG, Nubain (or some anti-catabolic like it) or clenbuterol (like the last TdF winner was caught using).

He also was, if you believe the reports, a master of using masking agents.
 
Yes and most likely also testosterone.

As far as the drugs being "natural," that's total conjecture and can't be proven :) One can just as easily assemble another list of stuff that isn't. You can't tell me he wasn't using say THG (of which there was no test until recently) or another equally undetectable steroid, HCG, Nubain (or some anti-catabolic like it) or clenbuterol (like the last TdF winner was caught using).

He also was, if you believe the reports, a master of using masking agents.

True, but AFAIK he's being specifically accused only of blood and EPO (I don't know about testosterone).

Is Nubain more useful in athletics as an anti-catabolite or an analgesic?
 
---Perhaps it would be too scary; they all would look like monsters on steroids on their bicycles.

No, enhanced drugs, any type of fake hormones, unnatural substances have no place in natural sports. Methinks. ...Is that what we want from our children? ...Boost them with drugs?

If you want FAKE, fabricated, go to those wrestling sports. That's for entertainment, and money.

But keep them separated from what should be fair, pure, natural, smart, and in true spirit of the human body & mind.

That perception is unfortunately a combination of myth and inaccuracies.

To begin with, a "big" muscle is not a "strong" muscle. That's because in your mind unfortunately, you associate strength with big, bulky bodybuilders. Bodybuilders are far from the strongest. Muscles (of course we can't neglect bioenergetics either) respond to stress in many ways; three of them that are germane to the discussion are endurance (building of enzymes, esp. in the mitochondria, that help the muscle function for prolonged periods), hypertrophy (increases in the size of the muscle cells and related to the amount of stress eg. sets in the 8-12 rep range) and sacroplasmic hypertrophy (increase in the number of myofibrils insides the cells responsible for contraction and occurring in the heavy load, low rep range). So obviously you need all three biomotor qualities during the many stages (say climbing or time trials) of the TdF.

Interestingly, the TdF is so grueling that these extremely well conditioned athletes (Armstrong was reported to have a resting heart rate of 34) are by the end of the race, barely able to beat a average rider. Hence the need for drugs to slow the degradation in performance.

Two, as we say for runners, swimmers and cyclists, etc., size induces air or water resistance and slows them up actually. So a huge swimmer has a lot more drag as does a cyclist.

Three, again for these athletes, anything that doesn't propel you forward is extraneous.

Lastly, the use of drugs is not just about strength but probably moreso recovery between the workouts. You're able to do more training/workouts within given time compared to the athlete who doesn't use drugs resulting in much quicker results. Prolonged use of PEDs did, as the Russians among others found out, actually resulted in more injuries. So they [Russians] changed their tactics and only used steroids (if you believe it and I do have my doubts) in the beginning training cycles of the season where a high volume of training was/is the norm.

Another lesser talked about effect of steroids that I've found in my reading are their effects upon the nervous system. We have two ways of controlling the threshold for nerve firing; the first is ligand gated and the second is ion gate channels. It turns out in a few papers that I've read that steroids bind to the ligand gated ion channels of a nerve, reducing the threshold for firing and speeding up the ability of our body to move. I think that's part of the reason that baseball players hit more HRs since it's really bat speed that controls their ability to hit a pitched ball.
 
Good post just above Myles. :b

* Except for the part: "That's because in your mind unfortunately, you associate strength with big, bulky bodybuilders."

Perhaps I should have been more specific. ...But I thought people would understand my line of thought.
My sister used to be a bodybuilder, and a teacher at it. I know a thing or two ...

Yeah you're right, I was only 150 pounds (5' 10") and was planting twice as many trees than people much better built than I. ...Nice and strong looking body with big and beautiful biceps, habs, legs, and all those other muscles ...
Endurance has nothing to do with size, and strength of the moment, and looks.
 
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