US Anti-Doping Agency charges Armstrong

[Vincent Kars]

The skinny guys have no problem mustering the wattage necessary to get them over the most severe mountain passees. The big sprinters run out gas often losing up to an hour to the climbers.

Good climbers are small guys.
They are down on absolute power compared with big guys but their muscle/body weight ratio is better and weight is the problem when climbing

An heart bigger than “normal” is normal in sports.
Is a result of the severe training.

 

[Thomas.Dennehy]

Once again I was not specific enough. You don't have to win mountain stages but need to be right behind you General Cassification competitor. E.G. Bradley Wiggins shadowing of Cadel Evans in the last two mountain stages of TDF 2012. Time trials are just as aerobic as mountain climbing iff not more so..

You were specific enough, and we're probably vigorously agreeing with each other. The win goes to the guy with the lowest overall time. If you are behind on GC, you can't just "shadow" the guy in front of you in time. At some point, you have to get by him. There is a scene in "American Flyers" where one rider taunts another for failing to break away, "Look, Belov, I'm still right next to you. No wait, I'm not next to you. I'm really two seconds up the road."

Pedro Delgado couldn't shake Stephen Roche on the last mountain stage in '87, but he still finished the stage with the GC lead. He just didn't have a sufficient gap to stay ahead after Roche blew his metaphoric doors off in the next-day time trial to win it all. Laurent Fignon rode brilliantly in the Alps in '89, cracking Lemond on the last climb. But he still didn't build up enough of a lead to prevent his own hubris from letting Lemond pass him in the final-stage time trial to cap the miracle comeback. You have to be better at your specialty than the other guy is at his.

 

[Gregadd]

The old African proverb goes something likes this: The lion wakes up every morning not having to be faster than the fastest gazelle. He just has to be faster than the slowest one.

 

[NorthStar]

---Luv this thread! :b

 

[Thomas.Dennehy]

The old African proverb goes something likes this: The lion wakes up every morning not having to be faster than the fastest gazelle. He just has to be faster than the slowest one.

Absolutely. We love that adage down in the automotive electronics mines and use it often. To survive, you don't need to be the fastest gazelle in the pack -- sometimes being second slowest works just as well.

 

[Gregadd]

Lol

 

[Orb]

This thread shows that the (mostly, and I don't know if Orb races) non (competitive) cyclists believe LA. Once you participate in the sport and have pro rider friends you quickly find out the proliferation of "med programs." LA's physiology is one of kind and was managed very well with gobs of resources. Follow the money is all I can say.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/06/lance-armstrongs-business-links-a-flowchart-by-dimspace/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=lance-armstrongs-business-links-a-flowchart-by-dimspace

I used to do some national races but nothing big, was lucky enough to have a good cycling club nearby.
I think you are probably right that the pro world is more cynical of the LA story, but even then it is still diverse, the LA physiology for me was around before the managed narrative as some would like to say, as I was always interested in the science aspect going back to Greg LeMond days, with his own application of its use that was pretty innovative in its day - also exceptional body like Hinault, Indurain, and LA.

However I must admit I am more cynical of Alberto Contador myself, he has made it look even easier than LA and also had his name indirectly (not enough proof) linked back to the Spain drug busts, I do hope he has allowed researchers to also allow a study of his performance like the names I mentioned.
Also what became lost in the AC case was that the UCI actually tested beef from the butcher where the steak came from and could not find any traces of the drug in their purchased beef, nor other beef they tested from the region.
So while the amount was small in AC's blood stream, the defense that it must had been used by the farmers is tough to accept.

The only evidence personally I will take for LA being guilty is that primarily from Hincapie, and possibly also Levi Leipheimer, due to the fact LA has not failed the WADA credited lab controlled drug tests.
Hincapie as his closest support rider I think would have an inkling, so why it will be interesting if there is any truth that Hincapie will be a witness - which I am still open minded on this latest news considering the previous misinformation relating to what he said.
I do find the conspiracy hard to accept that somehow LA manages to pass the tests while certain former team mates failed, so he somehow used techniques beyond what could be tested; and yet those who have been caught and accuse LA showing them how to dope did not use the same technique, quite incredible IMO.
However again this does not mean LA is innocent, just that some of the claims by those caught seem dubious.
All comes back to Hincapie, who I would say most would listen to and accept as a credible person.

Good link on the decade of doping in cycling:
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/doping-drugs-cycling-2000-2010/


And great news for us Brits in the TdF today woot
Cheers
Orb

 

[Gregadd]

Orb-Were you road racing or crit.?

 

[MylesBAstor]

I used to do some national races but nothing big, was lucky enough to have a good cycling club nearby.
I think you are probably right that the pro world is more cynical of the LA story, but even then it is still diverse, the LA physiology for me was around before the managed narrative as some would like to say, as I was always interested in the science aspect going back to Greg LeMond days, with his own application of its use that was pretty innovative in its day - also exceptional body like Hinault, Indurain, and LA.

However I must admit I am more cynical of Alberto Contador myself, he has made it look even easier than LA and also had his name indirectly (not enough proof) linked back to the Spain drug busts, I do hope he has allowed researchers to also allow a study of his performance like the names I mentioned.
Also what became lost in the AC case was that the UCI actually tested beef from the butcher where the steak came from and could not find any traces of the drug in their purchased beef, nor other beef they tested from the region.
So while the amount was small in AC's blood stream, the defense that it must had been used by the farmers is tough to accept.

The only evidence personally I will take for LA being guilty is that primarily from Hincapie, and possibly also Levi Leipheimer, due to the fact LA has not failed the WADA credited lab controlled drug tests.
Hincapie as his closest support rider I think would have an inkling, so why it will be interesting if there is any truth that Hincapie will be a witness - which I am still open minded on this latest news considering the previous misinformation relating to what he said.
I do find the conspiracy hard to accept that somehow LA manages to pass the tests while certain former team mates failed, so he somehow used techniques beyond what could be tested; and yet those who have been caught and accuse LA showing them how to dope did not use the same technique, quite incredible IMO.
However again this does not mean LA is innocent, just that some of the claims by those caught seem dubious.
All comes back to Hincapie, who I would say most would listen to and accept as a credible person.

Good link on the decade of doping in cycling:
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/doping-drugs-cycling-2000-2010/


And great news for us Brits in the TdF today woot
Cheers
Orb

I didn't buy that clenbuterol excuse for a minute. But what doesn't make sense is why the hell he was taking that CRAP! It is used by bodybuilders/fitness competitors to speed up their metabolism; it is banned in the US because it was shown to be a mutagen as well as having cardiotoxic effects. So why was Contador taking it?????

 

[MylesBAstor]

http://msn.foxsports.com/cycling/st...ping-agency-to-block-charges-dismissed-070912

 

[MylesBAstor]

http://msn.foxsports.com/cycling/st...ping-agency-to-block-charges-dismissed-070912

http://thinksteroids.com/news/lance-armstrong-win-against-united-states-anti-doping/

 

[MylesBAstor]

http://thinksteroids.com/news/us-anti-doping-agency-loses-its-first-doping-case/

 

[Gregadd]

The noose tightens.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/47803895/ns/sports/

 

[Orb]

I have to say though Gregadd,
I am struggling to understand what evidence the USADA are going to use especially against Michele Ferrari, because the Italian courts actually cleared him of any wrongdoing.....
I notice that article ommited that bit of information
Bit naughty really.
Although I am still suspicious myself, but that is not enough to convict him.

Problem is a lot of what is going on just now IMO is sensational journalism-narrative, I just want to see the proof but hopefully it is actually more balanced than any leaks or articles printed so far.
I hope the USADA know what they are doing, otherwise if they are pushing this too much on speculation it will fall to pieces without any focus on actual useful facts.

Regarding my own cycling, as I mentioned it was nothing much, just Cat 3 senior road racing; unfortunately it seems I was better suited to Velodrome - I think it was boredom setting in on road racing
And I prefer shorter distances and the track related events.
Unfortunately UK is-was pretty crud for decent velodromes and the journey time was excessive to reach one, so alas never could pursue that interest.

Cheers
Orb

 

[Gregadd]

This is why is I do not think LA cheated. He had the best equipment,best teammates, the abilty to train the course while his competitors did every day races. There was only one race he wanted to win. everything else led up to that

 

[NorthStar]

---I feel like it's me, on the bike! :b

 

[Whatmore]

This is why is I do not think LA cheated. He had the best equipment,best teammates, the abilty to train the course while his competitors did every day races. There was only one race he wanted to win. everything else led up to that

Why is it fair to gain advantage by having better equipment, better teammates, better coaching, better nutrition etc etc but unfair to gain advantage by taking drugs?

 

[JackD201]

If I'm not mistaken the IOC doesn't screen for stuff like crack or dope because it will screw you up instead of enhance performance. LOL.

 

[MylesBAstor]

If I'm not mistaken the IOC doesn't screen for stuff like crack or dope because it will screw you up instead of enhance performance. LOL.

I actually think they do.

 

[Gregadd]

Why is it fair to gain advantage by having better equipment, better teammates, better coaching, better nutrition etc etc but unfair to gain advantage by taking drugs?

Those who rely heavily on PED have a nasty habit of premature death.