Various DAC Audition Impressions

[ACHiPo]

WADAX VERSUS DCS VIVALDI APEX

In every match except the SW1X thus far I preferred the contender to the Apex. Not on every track, but, overall, I preferred the contender over the Apex.

To my ears the Apex has a consistent sonic signature of a touch of coolness, thinness, dryness -- the sonic sensation of menthol. It is more apparent on some tracks and less apparent on other tracks. On some tracks it really is not apparent at all.

Idiosyncratically I am very, very sensitive to this kind of sound. It is a dealbreaker for me personally. This genre of sonic signature, broadly-speaking, is the reason I have never cottoned to digital playback in general.

The Wadax equaled the stunning, ultimate resolution of the Apex, but without the Apex's sonic signature of slight coolness and thinness. The Wadax sounded a little bit warmer, a little bit richer and a little bit more resonant in comparison to the Apex. I think the Wadax exhibited slightly greater decay on acoustic instruments than did the Apex.

Put another way I found the Wadax to be a Pareto Optimal improvement over the Apex: at least one sonic attribute was improved, with no other sonic attribute being degraded. The Wadax sounded less digital and more natural to me than the Apex while, to my ears, maintaining the same resolving power of air and ambience and details and low frequency punch and frequency extension as the Apex. The Wadax’s elimination of the Apex's coolness and dryness did not come at the cost of, or any diminution to, any desireable sonic attribute.


ARIES CERAT KASSANDRA VERSUS DCS VIVALDI APEX

The Kassandra, the entry-level DAC from Aries Cerat, at about half the price of the Lampizator Horizon, brought me back to what I liked about the Lampizator Horizon: the sonic liquidity and the greater body and the soundstage dimensionality of tubes. I think the Horizon took these attributes even a step further than did the Kassandra, but, since we did not hear the Horizon side-by-side with the Kassandra, I cannot be sure.

If the Kassandra gave up anything to the dCS in ultimate resolution it was a minor sacrifice, and — to me — well worth the trade for the slightly greater liquidity and warmth and dimensionality of tubes. I think the dCS reproduced the detail and the texture and the punch of the lowest frequencies better than did the Kassandra.


MSB SELECT II VERSUS DCS VIVALDI APEX

An important development occurred between the departure of the Aries Cerat Kassandra and my audition of the MSB Select II: pk_LA fiddled with more of the filters on the dCS Vivaldi Apex, and figured out how to smooth out the sound a little bit so the Apex wasn’t truncating decay as much and was not highlighting detail and the leading edge of transients as much. This reduced the dryness and improved the listenability of the Apex for me, and narrowed — once again — the differences between the Apex and the other DACs. My personal sonic issues with the Apex were not eliminated, but they were further reduced in intensity. By the end of the survey the Apex sounded materially different than it did in the beginning.

The MSB Select II did not match the slight liquidity and slight dimensionality advantages of the tube DACs, but it definitely is my favorite of all of the solid-state DACs. The MSB just has a more relaxed and calm sonic quality to it. I also heard this relaxed sound from KeithR’s MSB Reference compared to his MSB Premier. (I suspect the Reference is the sweet/value spot in the MSB line.) This calm or relaxed quality is a little hard to describe, but it’s definitely there, and it allows me able to sit and listen to music without fatigue.

The MSB has a fuller, more “dense,” and more analog-type sound than any of the other solid-state DACs, I believe. Of course I can’t be sure because we no longer had the Wadax in house for a direct comparison.

Before pk_LA smoothed out the Apex, I was hoping the MSB would pick up two points of desirable sonic warmth and musicality, while sacrificing less than two points of resolution. After pk_LA smoothed out the Apex I think the MSB was just as resolving as the Apex. From my point of view this meant that the MSB was smoother and warmer and more musical, than the Apex, but without sacrificing any resolution to the Apex.


CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS

From the the tube end of liquidity and warmth and dimensionality on the left to the solid-state end of resolution, detail and leading edge precision on the right I would place the top contenders as follows:

Lampizator Horizon -- Aries Cerat Kassandra -- Infigo Method 4 -- Nagra DAC HD -- MSB Select II -- Wadax -- dCS Vivaldi

The SW1X DAC III Special is on a different indifference curve because I feel it gave up too many points in resolution for the points in smoothness and warmth and analog like sound it delivered.

Across these comparisons I believe that the Horizon, the Kassandra, the Select II, the Wadax are on the same indifference curve.

I put the Apex on a slightly lower indifference curve only because, except possibly for system-matching reasons, I don’t see why anybody would prefer the dCS over the Wadax.

The two extremities of this curve are tube liquidity and warmth and musicality at the one end, and maximum resolution, detail, dynamics, crisp transient response and sharp leading edges at the other end of the curve. What a surprise! Tubes versus transistors yet again!

I think the differences between and among the most of these DACs is relatively minor. If I had to make up a number I'd say something like 10% to 25%. This feels like the right (if intellectually indefensible) quantification of order of magnitude.

I believe there is no sense in which one DAC is 50% or 100% more highly resolving than any of the others. I feel there's no sense in which one DAC is 50% or 100% more musical or smoother or more analog like then another. I think any claim to the contrary is partisanship of ownership, and hyperbole.

If I were choosing for myself, I would get the Lampizator Horizon if I wanted a tube DAC, and I would get the MSB Select II if I wanted a solid-state DAC.

If somebody wants to maximize resolving power and detail and dynamics without any signature of dryness or coolness or menthol quality, and without any emphasized leading edge transient response, then I recommend the Wadax.

If somebody wants to maximize liquidity and dimensionality and naturalness and “musicality,” then I recommend the Horizon. If you prefer the technical design or the aesthetics of the Kassandra, then get the Kassandra. I think the sounds of these DACsare in the same direction, but the Horizon goes a little bit further in that direction.

If somebody wants to stay with solid-state and seeks a denser, slightly warmer, slightly more analog-like experience, I recommend the MSB Select II on the expensive end (with no sacrifice in resolution) and the Infigo (and the MSB Reference) in the $30,000 to $50,000 range.

Thanks, again, to pk_LA for allowing me to join him on this incredible survey of state-of-the-art DACS!

Amazing write up. Thanks. The Nagra sits in the middle of the distribution, yet is not on a level of indifference. Is it below the SW1X in your preference?

 

[Sampajanna]

If one already has an Apex, I am sure some fiddling can make it a beautiful and wonderful listening experience and any of us could be happy with it forever. However, as this wonderful write up and my experience shows, if starting from scratch, I can think of no reason to buy the Vivaldi stack. The competition at lower/equal/slightly more is too good. I would take the MSB Ref or Horizon over the Vivaldi stack, I would even take the Playback MPD8 as well (you could get the stack of streamer/transport + the dac and then use Plink fiber and all for way less than Vivaldi)… Better or equal sound and save TONS of rack space + a giant pile of spaghetti behind (not to mention expense of all those cables). Just my two cents. YMMV. Like Ron, I am very sensitive to the “menthol” flavor of DCS (love that metaphor btw. IMO if the Vivaldi is a menthol cigarette the Horizon is a fine Cuban cigar). Some super amount of detailed fiddling may help mitigate this, but why would you when you could spend less and get same/better?

PS the settings on the Apex that got me closest to love were DSD based (YMMV), which further leans me towards the Playback (in terms of suggestion for others. I bought the dac that is my choice in this list. My money speaks for what I think is best here, though, as i said earlier, I havent heard all the dacs in this list).

 

[Ron Resnick]

Amazing write up. Thanks. The Nagra sits in the middle of the distribution, yet is not on a level of indifference. Is it below the SW1X in your preference?

The Nagra is above the SW1X DAC III in my personal preference. The SW1X is wonderfully smooth, but maybe too smooth in this highly-resolving cast of competitors.

Is the Nagra to me on the same indifference curve as the other contenders, or is it on a slightly lower indifference curve (but above the indifference curve of the SW1X)? In fairness, at this point, I cannot say. I think I remember thinking that the Nagra kind of got squeezed between our favorite solid-state contenders on the one hand and our favorite tube contenders on the other hand. The Nagra is a good way to split the baby.

 

[ACHiPo]

The Nagra is above the SW1X DAC III in my personal preference. The SW1X is wonderfully smooth, but maybe too smooth in this highly-resolving cast of competitors.

Is the Nagra to me on the same indifference curve as the other contenders, or is it on a slightly lower indifference curve (but above the indifference curve of the SW1X)? In fairness, at this point, I cannot say. I think I remember thinking that the Nagra kind of got squeezed between our favorite solid-state contenders on the one hand and our favorite tube contenders on the other hand. The Nagra is a good way to split the baby.

Someone I trust was singing its praises, although I think he might have been talking about the DAC X which is up in the MSB Select price range I think, but he said the HD would run with the Horizon.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Someone I trust was singing its praises, although I think he might have been talking about the DAC X which is up in the MSB Select price range I think, but he said the HD would run with the Horizon.

pk_LA indicates we auditioned the HD X.

 

[ACHiPo]

pk_LA indicates we auditioned the HD X.

Thanks. I was just trying to talk myself into spending $35k for the HD. $80k for the HDX isn’t going to happen.

 

[Lee]

If one already has an Apex, I am sure some fiddling can make it a beautiful and wonderful listening experience and any of us could be happy with it forever. However, as this wonderful write up and my experience shows, if starting from scratch, I can think of no reason to buy the Vivaldi stack. The competition at lower/equal/slightly more is too good. I would take the MSB Ref or Horizon over the Vivaldi stack, I would even take the Playback MPD8 as well (you could get the stack of streamer/transport + the dac and then use Plink fiber and all for way less than Vivaldi)… Better or equal sound and save TONS of rack space + a giant pile of spaghetti behind (not to mention expense of all those cables). Just my two cents. YMMV. Like Ron, I am very sensitive to the “menthol” flavor of DCS (love that metaphor btw. IMO if the Vivaldi is a menthol cigarette the Horizon is a fine Cuban cigar). Some super amount of detailed fiddling may help mitigate this, but why would you when you could spend less and get same/better?

PS the settings on the Apex that got me closest to love were DSD based (YMMV), which further leans me towards the Playback (in terms of suggestion for others. I bought the dac that is my choice in this list. My money speaks for what I think is best here, though, as i said earlier, I havent heard all the dacs in this list).

I think you and others here are really preferring a warm sound with the Horizon. That's fine if it makes you happy but it's not as neutral or as resolving as the APEX DACs in my experience. Your comments also suggest a lingering memory of the pre-APEX sound of dCS which was a touch analytical. With the increased linearity and better analog output circuit, the APEX DACS are more musical and more accurate at the same time.

 

[Koegz]

Hi pk_LA, I enjoyed reading and I was happy to learn that you chose the msb select 2 over all the other options. I recently order a select 2. I hope to have it in place in the beginning of September . Your review made me feel extra good about my decision. I had considered a few of the dacs on your list. The Horizon for one. I had a bad experience with tubes so I chickened out. I am wondering if you are considering the msb select Digital Director? I can’t help but wonder if the DD is the final link to cement the select 2 to being the dac for all others dacs to measure up too? I plan on living with the select a while before considering any additional purchases. But definitely in my thoughts. Congrats on your select

 

[Lee]

If one already has an Apex, I am sure some fiddling can make it a beautiful and wonderful listening experience and any of us could be happy with it forever. However, as this wonderful write up and my experience shows, if starting from scratch, I can think of no reason to buy the Vivaldi stack. The competition at lower/equal/slightly more is too good. I would take the MSB Ref or Horizon over the Vivaldi stack, I would even take the Playback MPD8 as well (you could get the stack of streamer/transport + the dac and then use Plink fiber and all for way less than Vivaldi)… Better or equal sound and save TONS of rack space + a giant pile of spaghetti behind (not to mention expense of all those cables). Just my two cents. YMMV. Like Ron, I am very sensitive to the “menthol” flavor of DCS (love that metaphor btw. IMO if the Vivaldi is a menthol cigarette the Horizon is a fine Cuban cigar). Some super amount of detailed fiddling may help mitigate this, but why would you when you could spend less and get same/better?

PS the settings on the Apex that got me closest to love were DSD based (YMMV), which further leans me towards the Playback (in terms of suggestion for others. I bought the dac that is my choice in this list. My money speaks for what I think is best here, though, as i said earlier, I havent heard all the dacs in this list).

Sampajanna,

Can you tell us about the system you heard the Vivaldi APEX on? Do you know how many hours were on it?

There is no coolness to my ears and I have pretty good critical listening skills and have my own professional recordings to use as test tracks. When I play our hires files of string ensembles, the body of the instruments is all there and perfectly represented. Vocals are well extended into the chest area in a perfectly formed image of a singer in a real space.

While I respect your opinion and that of others, it just doesn't match my experience with my own Rossini APEX at 180 hours in...and still improving by the way.

 

[Al M.]

I think you and others here are really preferring a warm sound with the Horizon. That's fine if it makes you happy but it's not as neutral or as resolving as the APEX DACs in my experience. Your comments also suggest a lingering memory of the pre-APEX sound of dCS which was a touch analytical. With the increased linearity and better analog output circuit, the APEX DACS are more musical and more accurate at the same time.

As always, it's all a matter of system context, how the DAC fits into the whole.

I recently preferred in another system the combo of my solid state DAC with a tube preamp over the combo of a much more expensive tube DAC with a solid state preamp, and the host did as well -- with the former combo there was little if any loss of resolution, with the latter there was; dynamics were also much better with the first combo and overall timbre was more believable. And the SS DAC also did great in combination with the SS preamp. But also there it will all depend on the particular components, there is not necessarily a "rule of thumb".

Also, one man's "neutral" is another man's poison. One man's "warm" is another man's boring. And not all "neutral" or "warm" sound is created equal -- there are shades of each.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi pk_LA, I enjoyed reading and I was happy to learn that you chose the msb select 2 over all the other options. I recently order a select 2. . . . Your review made me feel extra good about my decision.

Dear Koegz,

Congratulations on your ordering an MSB Select II! I think you will absolutely love it!

But I hope you would not have questioned, or felt bad about, your decision if pk_LA had not purchased a Select II. If the Select II is your favorite DAC for your system, then in my opinion, you do yourself a disservice if you care about or worry about what anybody else thinks or what anybody else selects.

Purchase decisions are very personal and idiosyncratic, based upon one’s personal sonic preferences, and one’s sonic attribute sensitivities, and one’s musical genre preferences, and one’s associated components and one’s listening room situation. Nothing is “one size fits all.”

In a different stereo system in a different room pk_LA might have preferred a different DAC. In a different stereo system in a different room I might have preferred a different DAC.

 

[Alpinist]

Hi pk_LA, I enjoyed reading and I was happy to learn that you chose the msb select 2 over all the other options. I recently order a select 2. I hope to have it in place in the beginning of September . Your review made me feel extra good about my decision. I had considered a few of the dacs on your list. The Horizon for one. I had a bad experience with tubes so I chickened out. I am wondering if you are considering the msb select Digital Director? I can’t help but wonder if the DD is the final link to cement the select 2 to being the dac for all others dacs to measure up too? I plan on living with the select a while before considering any additional purchases. But definitely in my thoughts. Congrats on your select

Hi Koegz,

Congratulations on your Select II DAC purchase! I think you will love it. In 30 years of owning high-end audio equipment, the Select II is hands down my favorite component. Every time I listen to it, I am consistently stunned by the lifelike quality of the music it reproduces. And its performance never waivers. It is as rock solid a component as I have owned. There are strong reasons why so many have made this choice: amazing sound quality, tremendous build quality, a company with many years of experience producing digital components on the leading edge of technology, and many key parts are painstakingly designed in house. There is no doubt about it. You picked a winner!

Enjoy!
Ken

 

[microstrip]

I think you and others here are really preferring a warm sound with the Horizon. That's fine if it makes you happy but it's not as neutral or as resolving as the APEX DACs in my experience. Your comments also suggest a lingering memory of the pre-APEX sound of dCS which was a touch analytical. With the increased linearity and better analog output circuit, the APEX DACS are more musical and more accurate at the same time.

Lee,

If people are looking for an analog like tube sounding DAC, the dCS APEX is not probably their choice. I see people listening to old analog digitized recordings and average digital pop recordings in their comparisons - I think I would even prefer my alternative Kondo KSL DAC with some of them.

However, if some one who wants to listen to neutral digital at its best with quality digital modern recordings he will probably value the APEX attributes - information, soundstage, timbre, full rance dynamics and fluidity. System matching is surely critical at this level - I do not expect to drop the APEX in a system optimized for specific vinyl playing gear and get immediately optimum sound.

Surely in this hobby one man's meat is another man's poison - and probably those suffering from digitalitis need some euphony to overcome it.

 

[nonesup]

As many of you know, I set out to audition a number of the leading DACs in my system with the goal of identifying the ideal fit for my ears. Below is a bit of a stream of consciousness summary of how it all sounded and went for me.

But, first please let me outline a few parameters and disclosures...

1. These notes are my thoughts and impressions based on my impressions. They are not in any way meant as a declaration or even a proper review.
2. Not all of the DACs were inserted in the system identically! Some of them were heard with a streamer or a clock or bespoke cables. I will try to identify the setups below. For those looking to 'sweep the knee' on this post - one DAC had a FTA USB while another had a $5 USB!
3. Many DACs were connected to the pre-amp using Transparent Opus Gen 6 balanced interconnects that were not tuned for the DAC. The tuning of the interconnects makes a noticeable difference - more so depending on the variance from what it is tuned to vs. the actual component. I have noted where this was the case.
4. I tried to remain consistent with music tracks for all DACs with music ranging from classical to rock to EDM to folk
5. There was an attempt to equalize the sound pressure across all
6. Each DAC was compared against a dCS Vivaldi Apex stack (Clock, Upsampler, DAC)
7. DACs were setup with the Boulder 3010 using trim functions for equalizing so that we could instantly switch back and forth and A|B|A listen
8. Some DACs I had for days and others for only a few hours!
9. I am not bought into, "...how the artists intended it..." I do not care too much about measurements. I have firsthand seen debates between artists and engineers occur on mixes to the effect of, "...it sounds best under x! But, we should mix it this way as most people will listen with y..." Let me say this another way. I care about music that moves me emotionally. I have regularly smiled when I read statements about "...how the artists intended..." I suggest that these people speak to some artists on how the process works.

The system that was used is outlined below.

1. Source: Roon Nucleus connected via either network or by USB (specified per DAC)
2. DAC: Variable
3. Pre-Amp: Boulder 3010
4. Amp: Boulder 3060
5. Speakers: Wilson Alexx V
6. Cables: All cabling is Transparent Opus Gen 6 (power cords are all Gen 5)

Basis system: dCS Vivaldi

• Connections:
  • Ethernet connection to network
  • Transparent Magnum Opus Gen 6 balanced interconnect *tuned
• Audition setup: Dealer loaned it to me
• Impressions
  • Detail and resolution as good as I have ever heard
  • Can be a bit harsh upper range vocals
  • Wanted for more body - it can be somewhat thin
  • Incredible ability to resolve complex transients
  • Wanted for longer more natural decay - felt like it was 'just the facts' and absolutely no more
  • Lacked some warmth
  • Upper mid-range balanced
  • GREAT on classical music, processed music and EDM
• Other: The dCS is highly dependent on the Upsampler and DAC variables that are user set. There is a filter on the Upsampler, an Upsampler output formal (DSD etc), a DAC filter and a DAC map. And, they all affect the sound.

Lampizator Horizon

• Connections:
  • FTA USB from Roon Nuc
  • Transparent Opus Gen 6 balanced interconnect *not tuned
• Audition setup: Sent for audition
• Impressions
  • Wow! The holographic soundstage is amazing!
  • Density!
  • Decay
  • Air and space - instruments are there!
  • Not a quick and resolving as the dCS but so so musical
• Other: The Horizon changed sound signature in the days I had with it more-so than solid-state gear I am used to. I was urged by Steve W to be patient but I was not. I have since wondered as the person I sent mine to indicated that once broken in it was incredible. I do not doubt it. That first night I plugged it in it was like nothing I have heard before.

Nagra HD X

• Connections:
  • Source was replaced by an Ideon Absolute Stream and Clock
  • USB to DAC (dealer brought top end Audio Quest)
  • Audio Quest Dragon balanced interconnect to pre-amp
• Audition setup: Dealer onsite audition for 2 hours
• Impressions
  • Smoother than dCS
  • Nice linearity and body with classical and rock
  • Struggled v dCS on some quick transients
  • Less musical than dCS on highly processed music and EDM
  • Mid-range focused v dCS
• Other: I could have happily gone with this DAC

Infigo Method 4

• Connections:
  • Bespoke streamer brought by Infigo Audio
  • USB to DAC
  • Transparent Opus Gen 6 balanced interconnect to pre-amp *not tuned
• Audition setup: Infigo Principle brought to my home for a couple hours
• Impressions
  • Warm - almost tube warm
  • Soundstage was similar to dCS
  • Struggled v dCS on some quick transients
  • On some dance tracks such as Senorita (Shawn Mendes and Camilla Cabello) it was get up and dance engaging.
  • Seemed to really shine with upper midrange centric tracks
• Other: The Principal of Infigo is one of the nicer and most intellectually curious people I have met in audio

Wadax Reference

• Connections:
  • Wadax Reference Server
  • Specific optical cable between server and DAC
  • Audio Quest Niagra 7000 power conditioner
  • Ethernet to server via Audio Quest Diamond
  • Audio Quest Dragon balanced interconnect to pre-amp
• Audition setup: Dealer visit for 2 hours
• Impressions
  • Linear
  • Smooth
  • Noise floor higher than dCS
  • Very musical
  • Server adjustments - Gain etc made massive changes in sound and were necessary
  • Soundstage very similar to dCS
  • No matter what music thrown at it it sounded great
  • Very balanced
  • Handled transients as well as dCS
• Other:
  • I do not understand the Wadax haters. It is a damn impressive DAC. One might argue value but, at least in my system to my ears, it was a wow.
  • I suspect that the server is required for the sound on this one.

Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref

• Connections:
  • $5 computer USB from Nuc
  • Transparent Opus Gen 6 balanced interconnect to pre-amp *not tuned
• Audition setup: Very kind visit from Robert Do
• Impressions
  • Imagine solid state with a hint of tubes
  • Linear and quick
  • Noise floor higher than dCS
  • A tick muddled on quick transients
  • Slightly less musical on processed and EDM than dCS
• Other:
  • Near entry level DAC for Aries Cerat that held up to the dCS flagship. Wish I had more time with it!
  • Changed the power cord from Transparent Opus to Inakustik reference silver and it resolved as well as the dCS

SW1X DAC 1

• Connections:
  • Coax from my upstairs bedroom subwoofer went from Upsampler as passthrough to DAC
• Audition setup: Sent from distributor for audition
• Impressions
  • Wonderful tube sound
  • Did not seem to have the soundstage like the Lampi
  • Struggled on transient and complex sections compared to the dCS
  • Very smooth
  • Lower mid balanced
• Other:
  • This was a somewhat unfair comparison. The cable was an Amazon Basics subwoofer coax passing through other components.
  • I do not feel entirely comfortable with this set of notes given the cobbled together setup

MSB Select II

• Connections:
  • Roon Nuc -> Shunyata Omega USB t-> ProISL
  • Transparent Opus Gen 6 balanced interconnect to pre-amp *not tuned
• Audition setup: Purchased used for demo
• Impressions
  • Body and density!
  • Balanced across the spectrum
  • Linearity to match anything
  • Has every bit the detail of the dCS
  • No harshness anywhere
  • Has a width and depth of soundstage that is great
  • Want for a tick more dynamic slam
  • One of only two DACs that matched or bettered the dCS on all tracks played
• Other:
  • I am keeping the MSB!

Summary: I only auditioned one DAC that I just did not like. Out of respect I have omitted it. I could have lived with any of the above DACs. The MSB and the Wadax were uniquely great at everything I played. The dCS is awesome with processed music and classical. The Lampizator continues to be curious to me as it was literally magical that first day! I am admittedly impatient and a bit compulsive - I maybe cut the cord too quick. I was close to buying the Wadax but the MSB was so very good that I just could not rationalize the price delta. In other words, price was somewhat always in the mix. But, I was ready to buy any of these and if the Wadax had been noticeably stronger I would have bought it. I wish I could have A|B'd it to the MSB and even the Lampi. But, when I heard the MSB I felt it sounded as good from memory as anything and that was it.

Well, the USB output of the Roon Núcleus isn't particularly good, but “poor” Aries Cerat also had to make do with a $5 USB cable.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well, the USB output of the Roon Núcleus isn't particularly good, but “poor” Aries Cerat also had to make do with a $5 USB cable.

btw, let the record show that PK included the Aries Cerat dac at my personal recommendation. thought it was a tube dac musical view worth hearing.

 

[Ron Resnick]

btw, let the record show that PK included the Aries Cerat dac at my personal recommendation. thought it was a tube dac musical view worth hearing.

I would have liked very much to have been able to compare the Kassandra directly to a Lampizator.

 

[Sampajanna]

Sampajanna,

Can you tell us about the system you heard the Vivaldi APEX on? Do you know how many hours were on it?

There is no coolness to my ears and I have pretty good critical listening skills and have my own professional recordings to use as test tracks. When I play our hires files of string ensembles, the body of the instruments is all there and perfectly represented. Vocals are well extended into the chest area in a perfectly formed image of a singer in a real space.

While I respect your opinion and that of others, it just doesn't match my experience with my own Rossini APEX at 180 hours in...and still improving by the way.

Hi

Two systems I heard Apex in:
One was Magico M w/ solution amps. The other was Wilson w Dagastino.

I do agree with what many said here that system synergy is very relevant as well as musical preferences. I also want to repeat more emphatically what I started out saying which is that these differences are not that great. As I said, any one here would be happy with a Vivaldi stack, no doubt. I also would not call the Horizon “warm.” In fact, I wonder (and I could be dead wrong) if you hear the Horizon as warm because your “neutral” is a cool one…. I am sensitive to the menthol flavor of DCS. It is there in the Apex as well when you compare to Horizon, MSB, Aries Cerat or Playback. I havent done a direct comparison of pre and post Apex to say how much it has changed. But overall, relative to other dacs, it is leaner, less rich and harmonic, cooler…. By a shade. Just a shade. If you have a DCS be happy and grateful you do, it is great gear. If shopping, I would recommend turning elsewhere for equal to better sound and often for a cheaper price, not to mention the saved rack space and miles of cables.

PS Let’s not forget the Horizon in this audition wasn’t broken in, nor optimized w/ tubes calibrated to his system….

 

[RaChiK]

Well, the USB output of the Roon Núcleus isn't particularly good, but “poor” Aries Cerat also had to make do with a $5 USB cable.

I second that reaction. 5$ USB and Roon nucleus was not fair for Kassandra, especially trying to compete with MSB select and wadax. Robert do (who brought Kassandra) should have brought signature or limited edition of Kassandra for audition, which is more in par with select and wadax.

 

[Argonaut]

I second that reaction. 5$ USB was not fair for Kassandra, especially trying to compete with MSB select and wadax. Robert do (who brought Kassandra) should have brought signature or limited edition of Kassandra for audition, which is more in par with select and wadax.

Whilst an excellent body of work from Ron, and duly recognising that one can only work with what one has been provided, I must concur.

I would also advance that were we to be considering Brand Flagship level models then the Aries Cerat Legend Series Homorus DAC would be quite appropriate In the discussion.

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[nonesup]

Except for Wadax, the others connected to Roon Nucleus, so I don't think there was discrimination between them in this. With Wadax yes and very large, since this had its reference server with the optical cable, but pk_LA already warned us, that it was not intended to be a "strict" comparison with all the parameters equally well adjusted. Thanks to pk_LA for their efforts and actually the "little" Aries Cerat was pretty well thought of, even with his $5 USB cable.