I'm pleased that digital works for you. Personally, I have never heard any digital that would surpass great vinyl. Most digital doesn't even sound better than entry level vinyl, but again all IMHO.
Unfortunately, most digital setups may be quite unclean when it comes to power and ground isolation (some of the solutions are still very new/yet to be applied). Some digital setups are unknowingly made in such a way as there are several lossy intermediate conversions among formats as well.
Which is why I said it either requires a lot of work or a big budget.
I do agree 100% with the commentary of the performance value of a $8K digital vs $8K analog rig. You have to spend much more on a analog rig to get world class performance.
Al,
It's interesting to see what you wrote about limited vinyl availability for avantgarde jazz, it was the limited availability of 70's and 80's avantgarde jazz on CD that made me start collecting vinyl. Other than ECM, my favorite labels (Soul Note, Inner Cit) had limited CD reissues and later Miles Davis (Agharta, Get Up With It, We Want Miles) had terrible CD transfers.
What avantgarde labels are you listening to on CD?
Jeffrey,
Minor and obscure labels mostly, but also Soul Note and ECM. Perhaps with the resurgence of LP the situation has changed for LPs on labels like those latter ones (I stand corrected on this one), even though I am not sure if this also holds for new releases; maybe it does. Yet the availability of music on CDs has also changed. Early CD transfers were often terrible indeed, but that has changed as well.
I'm in my room listening 5 hours a day during the week and up to double that on weekends. no way I could listen to vinyl that much as it's not multi-tasking friendly. then there is access to new music which is mostly digital. so my listening approach and time would be different if I was vinyl only.
would I jump into vinyl now? too many variables to say. I might do it now.
weekdays it's primarily early mornings before work and late at night. my wife sleeps late and I don't sleep much and wake very early. she is a very light sleeper so noise isolation for her is important. in my previous home my listening room was next to our master bedroom and it was a conflict. been married 43 years......
weekends it varies a lot based on wife and family activities. weekends I'm interacting with work during daytimes and so I do multitask then.
I work 6 days a week, don't have time for a boat or vacation home......so my barn is it. got into birding recently and bought a Porsche as our weekend cruising car as things my wife and I can do together.
weekdays it's primarily early mornings before work and late at night. my wife sleeps late and I don't sleep much and wake very early. she is a very light sleeper so noise isolation for her is important. in my previous home my listening room was next to our master bedroom and it was a conflict. been married 43 years......
weekends it varies a lot based on wife and family activities. weekends I'm interacting with work during daytimes and so I do multitask then.
I used to have a CDP and when I listened to music, I often read or did other things at the same time. I later got seriously into vinyl and ditched the CDs. Now I just listen to the music and can no longer multitask.
weekdays it's primarily early mornings before work and late at night. my wife sleeps late and I don't sleep much and wake very early. she is a very light sleeper so noise isolation for her is important. in my previous home my listening room was next to our master bedroom and it was a conflict. been married 43 years......
weekends it varies a lot based on wife and family activities. weekends I'm interacting with work during daytimes and so I do multitask then.
I work 6 days a week, don't have time for a boat or vacation home......so my barn is it. got into birding recently and bought a Porsche as our weekend cruising car as things my wife and I can do together.
I used to have a CDP and when I listened to music, I often read or did other things at the same time. I later got seriously into vinyl and ditched the CDs. Now I just listen to the music and can no longer multitask.
2. As the OP states, high quality analog is very costly, and it is too costly for me. While top-level analog is superior to my $ 8K digital set-up in several aspects, I would bet that my (Redbook CD) digital would quite clearly beat a $ 8K vinyl set-up (phono stage included) when it comes to general musical accuracy. I would, however, grant the possibility that the vinyl set-up would still beat my digital when it comes to believability of tenor- and baritone saxophone, a weak point of all but the best digital.
I don't know what vinyl set up you get at 8k, but the Goldmund Studio (used price 3 - 4k with arm), a 2k cart, and an ASR phono (used price 2 - 3k), beats many digital. So by reports, would PTP Lenco, retail at 2.5k Euro, but arm additional. Add FR 64s/SME 3012r, used price less than 2k. The Metronome CD+Kalista at 85k was beaten by a much lower priced analog set up, and there were 4 people in that room including me, all of whom agreed.
So is there a crossover point at cost till which digital is superior because of the cost of ancillaries in analog? Yes, I think so. 8k might be it. For me Marty's Goldmund Studio set up, the PTP Lenco at 2.5k EUR, and then the Schopper Thorens 124 (retail 7k EUR) can start surpassing digital. Arm cost FR 64s/SME3012r at < 2k USD, phonos (going by reports), ASR Basis Exclusiv, EAR, Tron, Aesthetix IO Sig, all of which used prices vary from 2k - 4k GBP. The Audio Technica Art 9 cart at a retail of under 1.5k GBP is great.
In fact, the cost is records - buying them, cleaning them, managing them and set-up. Unless you can buy the whole matched analog rig, you might have "discovery" costs till you hit the right combo.
I would give up this hobby if it was vinyl only. Life's to short to fiddle with vinyl all day. "IF" vinyl actually sounds better it isn't worth the effort or additional cost for me to listen more than a couple hours per month.
This is an interesting opening to the question. Time is precious. When I spend time to listen to music I want the most emotionally involving experience I can create. For me, that means vinyl.
This is an interesting opening to the question. Time is precious. When I spend time to listen to music I want the most emotionally involving experience I can create. For me, that means vinyl.
Yes, the speakers, turntable, tonearm, cartridge, cables, electrical infrastructure and room treatment will be new. I will be "hatching" a complete system, as Mike L says.
But I am afraid I do not understand your question.
Can you sleep well knowing that most of the new releases are digitally processed? I know that sound quality is what matters, but can not avoid a visceral reaction against digital vinyl!
What difference does that make? Considering vinyl sounds better the majority of the time is testament of the magic of vinyl.
How do you know on new releases whether digital, analog or a combination of both are used? It is not as if you have a choice like on reissues of what sounds best - original or reissue?
I buy new releases albums based on whether I like the music or not - if it sounds great, that really is cream. There are not many new release vinyl than truly sound terrible- does happen thou but the majority of my purchases sound fine.
I feel sorry for people who's systems seem to dictate the type of music they purchase, or do not purchase.
What difference does that make? Considering vinyl sounds better the majority of the time is testament of the magic of vinyl.
How do you know on new releases whether digital, analog or a combination of both are used? It is not as if you have a choice like on reissues of what sounds best - original or reissue?
I buy new releases albums based on whether I like the music or not - if it sounds great, that really is cream. There are not many new release vinyl than truly sound terrible- does happen thou but the majority of my purchases sound fine.
I feel sorry for people who's systems seem to dictate the type of music they purchase, or do not purchase.
Thus at times and likely very often, you acknowledge you listen to digital . The requirement for you is that it be vinyl-processed... You like the "idea" of vinyl playback and for you it is the best. Fine.
Thus at times and likely very often, you acknowledge you listen to digital . The requirement for you is that it be vinyl-processed... You like the "idea" of vinyl playback and for you it is the best. Fine.
It is. Where sound quality goes. Some things are opinions and preferences, this is not. And yes, I have been punching myself like Ed Norton in fight club to resist the expense on vinyl
Thus at times and likely very often, you acknowledge you listen to digital . The requirement for you is that it be vinyl-processed... You like the "idea" of vinyl playback and for you it is the best. Fine.
Actually, I listen to music first. why would I want to buy the CD when the vinyl is generally superior - it is an oxymoron.
If CD is sufficient quality for you, who I am I to argue. As long as it is encouraging you to buy more music, it must be doing something right. If not , well what can I say.
It is. Where sound quality goes. Some things are opinions and preferences, this is not. And yes, I have been punching myself like Ed Norton in fight club to resist the expense on vinyl
Yes, the speakers, turntable, tonearm, cartridge, cables, electrical infrastructure and room treatment will be new. I will be "hatching" a complete system, as Mike L says.
But I am afraid I do not understand your question.
